The possibility of LGBT characters in Project Eternity - Official Thread

[working man hole]

YES!

And the pedophiles and zoophiles NEED TO BE REPRESENTED ASAP!! Some of the prominent obsidian developers might have this particular sexuality tendency(just for the sake of argument, not offending obsidian)!!

DEAL WITH IT!!! WE MUST HAVE PEDOPHILES AND ZOOPHILES IN THIS GAME! Otherwise what will everyone think? that obsidian is some kind of monster that opresses people sexual preference? WE CANT HAVE THAT!!

DEAL WITH IT!!

 

Idiot (sorry mods, but this is the appropriate word), stop mixing homosexuality with pedophilia and zoophilia. They're only comparable in your sick little brain.

 

This guy is spewing hate speech all over the place. I wonder why is he still kept here.

 

Why would you insult him like that? All of those mentioned above belong into the same group of mental disorders. It is true that one is harmful to other people and the other is not - that's why pedophilia is prosecuted while LGBT is not, or at least shouldn't be.

 

Oh the humanity if you're not actually a clone of that idiot and defending yourself.. In case you're not, there are 2 idiots too many on this forums and I'm just using proper terms. Homosexuality is not a mental disorder and you should stop flaunting your ignorance.

 

The sad part is.. even an idiot could learn that in the era of google. Therefore, a big sorry to all idiots out there!

 

 

Don't you say...

 

Transgender people - not a disorder, because he/she/it is actually a woman, just born in a man's body (or vice versa).

Body dismorphic disorder - a disorder when the affected person is concerned with body image, manifested as excessive concern about and preoccupation with a perceived defect of their physical features.

 

Why is one time the brain wrong, but in another, very similar case it's the body?

 

 

As for homosexuality, did you choose to be aroused by same sex, or is it inborn? Becuse if it's inborn, it is certainly an error, possibly one of the worst errors a brain can have. Since the primary purpose of all life is reproduction...

[Kai]

I'd say the more variety in the game the better. With that I mean different races, cultures, probably religions, genders and sexual preferences. As homosexuality is quite common IRL, it makes sense to have it in the game, and to have different cultures within the game treat it differently would be pretty interesting. For the homophobes here that seems to be lethally afraid and amazingly terrified at the fact the LGBT people do exist, there might be a good chance that you will be able to treat those characters ingame like lesser people, which you seem to belive that they are. Which might make you happy for reasons I really can't understand. Then people like me can treat them without really paying attention to their sexual preferences unless we wanna have a romance with them or explore the culture that specific LGBT NPCs belongs to and the effects of their sexual orientation.

[Darth Trethon]

 

Also incorrect. Homosexuality has a biological purpose in that a homosexual couple doesn't bring a new child into the world, but can take care of abandoned children. It's seen in the animal world, and it's seen in our society as well through adoption.

 

 

Adoption is a completely separate issue unrelated to sexual orientation. You do not even need a couple to adopt....any person able and willing can adopt and raise an abandoned/orphaned child.

[Valorian]

Don't heterosexuals also breed gay people?

 

Pairs of the opposite sex, not necessarily heterosexuals.

Yes, they breed gays too.

 

My point is that being able to breed isn't an indication of any kind of superiority.

[working man hole]

we just live our lives and keep our sexuality preferences private, like most people do.

 

Yeah, hetero pairs holding hands and kissing in public keep their sexuality preferences in private... or when they mention their husbands/wives/boyfriends/girlfriends.. that hot guy/girl that passed by.. they keep it private? Not.

There's a hetero parade every single minute 365 days in a year, imbecile.

 

Except heterosexuality has a biological purpose, and is kind of necessary for continuation of species. Don't try to imply that queersexuality has equal worth as heterosexuality.

 

Crudely put but accurate. At the end of the day it doesn't matter what you are it is absolutely certain you are the result of a heterosexual pairing.

Also incorrect. Homosexuality has a biological purpose in that a homosexual couple doesn't bring a new child into the world, but can take care of abandoned children. It's seen in the animal world, and it's seen in our society as well through adoption.

 

Because heterosexual people can't adopt?

[Concerned Reader]

 

So what struggles aren't worth exploring then? Because if that's the case there are billions of non sexually-related struggles not represented in games that are probably far more common and should probably take priority. But at the end of the day I rather have Obsidian stay true to their development plan and tell us one amazing story than get tangled up in diverting resources in pleasing all kinds of minorities.

 

Another problem is that when you start having too many sexually-related struggles explored in a game at the expense other non sexually-related struggles it starts to stick out and be evident and it gets rather irritating. This should not be a game about all the ways in which people screw and what they want to screw and the societal hardships of not being able to find screwing partners.

As I have said multiple times before, this isn't about romance. Stop trying to use that as an argument. I'm not talking about genitals. Why are you?

 

On another note, if you would like to see another subject explored by the narrative of the game, make a thread for it. Don't post off topic about it in here.

 

Making a thread specifically dealing with the LGBT topic, specifically for the LGBT people... actually, that might work. Maybe if we just ignore this thread enough, it will get buried somewhere. Is there any chance you could sticky it on the 5th page? Then we can refer everyone there.

Yes, please do ignore this thread. That would be benificial to everyone involved. If you don't have something to say that is constructive to the topic at hand, then do not post.

[Andre]

I feel like in recent years developers are pushed by the community to include LGBT characters in their games. Look at ME3 for example, it's done so poorly and works forced.

Putting homosexual characters in for the sake of having them is just stupid and silly, and so far no game has done it well.

 

Hope it's not the same for PE.

[Perzyn]

Inclusion of pedophilia: That is more tricky, as there is pedophile hunts every were. So including it on any level to game may be more trouble than it is any worth.

 

People here are trying to equalize homosexuality with pedophilia for the sake of not including the former. I doubt any one here is, or at least would out himself as, serious advocate of pedophilia. But there is no real problem with introducing it. Just using a theme in work of fiction does not mean it is going to support the theme. There are many works concerning themselves with rape, but few of them are outright showing it as something good.

 

Pedophilia though is interesting example, since it is in part a cultural thing. What is today considered social and sexual taboo became such due to progress in medicine and introduction of mandatory education. In medieval times age of around 15 or 16 would be considered more or less mature and no one would bat an eyelid at the sight of 16 year old girl getting married and bearing children.

 

And equalizing pedophilia with homosexuality is about as reasonable as equalizing rape with it. Homosexuals typically are able to understand what they are doing and can give consent. Children are not really able to understand full meaning of sexual act and even if they supposedly give consent it is faulty. Thus pedophilia can't be considered legitimate orientation.

[Grimlorn]

I actually really liked how Bioware handled it with Cortez because it was an integral part of his character. His husband was very very important to him. It wasn't flaunted or focused down on. It was treated like any other relationship would have been.

You realize that was just tacked on to pander to LGBT crowd right? Why in an action shooter would you want to listen to someone complain and cry about their dead significant other. Gay or not. I guess it worked though because not everyone realized they were being manipulated.

 

It would be like the Expandables going to get coffee and the coffee guy spending 10 minutes crying and talking about how his bf died.

[working man hole]

Don't heterosexuals also breed gay people?

 

Pairs of the opposite sex, not necessarily heterosexuals.

Yes, they breed gays too.

 

My point is that being able to breed isn't an indication of any kind of superiority.

 

Biologically, it definitely is. Judging by your contempt, you must be the legendary child of Mark and Steve, whose parents were Roderick, John, Frank and Joseph?

[Moonlight Butterfly]

I'm tired of people hating on things that are never going to to change even if they hate them or not.

 

People are born that like the same gender and they are going to want representation in their escapism as much as the rest of us. Get over it.

[Luckmann]

I think the problem here is that no one has articulated the reason why there should be LGBT representation, or representation for minorities and women as well.

 

Lack of representation is not a sign of active repression. A story that has no women is not necessarily sexist, a story without minorities is not necessarily racist, and a story without LGBT is not necessarily anti-gay.

 

The problem is that it creates a culture of exclusion. There is nothing wrong with a story where all the important characters are male or white or straight. However, what happens when 99% of all stories have only important male characters or white characters or straight characters with no representation for women, minorities, or LGBT. None of those stories may be racist or sexist or anti-gay, but a complete lack of representation marginalizes all those people. Even though the stories themselves may have no prejudices or animosity towards anyone, the culture you create is one that says the experiences and struggles of these people are not significant or worth exploring.

 

There is also the problem of how those groups are represented. Let's say that there are ten gay characters in a fictional universe and nine of them are evil. Even if all those characters are well written and fully realized, the implications of having 90% of all gay character be bad guys isn't good. Now let's say that there are 100 straight characters in that same universe and twenty of them are evil. Even though there are more evil straight characters, it's not as bad due to the fact that it only constitutes 20% of the total number of straight characters.

 

So what struggles aren't worth exploring then? Because if that's the case there are billions of non sexually-related struggles not represented in games that are probably far more common and should probably take priority. But at the end of the day I rather have Obsidian stay true to their development plan and tell us one amazing story than get tangled up in diverting resources in pleasing all kinds of minorities.

 

Another problem is that when you start having too many sexually-related struggles explored in a game at the expense other non sexually-related struggles it starts to stick out and be evident and it gets rather irritating. This should not be a game about all the ways in which people screw and what they want to screw and the societal hardships of not being able to find screwing partners.

You know who would be interested in an epic story of homosexual struggle in a fantasy setting?

 

Homosexuals.

 

It makes perfect sense that heterosexuals would create cultural works that are, in essence, heterosexual. It doesn't mean that the struggle of others aren't "worth exploring", it just means that they generally have no interest in it, or will to explore it. So, yeah, I guess it isn't worth exploring. I have no desire whatsoever to explore homosexual characters.

 

But the point still stands.

[working man hole]

 

Also incorrect. Homosexuality has a biological purpose in that a homosexual couple doesn't bring a new child into the world, but can take care of abandoned children. It's seen in the animal world, and it's seen in our society as well through adoption.

 

 

 

Also, are you aware that rape is also present in nature? Explain please.

[Auxilius]

Inclusion of the LGBT characters: I am fine with them. I often play cRPGs as homosexual female.

Inclusion of zoophilia: If it in about same manner what it was in Arcanum, I am okey with that too.

Inclusion of pedophilia: That is more tricky, as there is pedophile hunts every were. So including it on any level to game may be more trouble than it is any worth.

I'd like the sheep, please.

[Fionavar]

It seems that we have once more arrived at a place where the sand to box ratio is out of whack. Always a gift to be able to discuss ideas of sexuality and how it does or does not affect game design. As with any art, it reflects the culture and, in turn, the sub-cultures that form the dominant narrative. Thanks for the input thus far and I think we'll take a break for the moment as the Squad cleans up the playground.

 

with respect,

 

Fionavar

 

PS If you've got more to say, feel free to take the discussion to PM.