Culture, Sexuality, and Gender Identity

[Concerned Reader]

This is starting to become a recurring joke on this forum, as far as I can tell, so bear with me as I try and sort this out so we can have a meaningful discussion that the developers can actually utilize to develop a great story.

 

Rules of this thread:

• This is not a thread to discuss whether or not GLBT topics should be included in the game.
  
• This is not a thread to debate whether or not GLBT people are worth the effort to include in the game.
  
• This is a thread specifically for the topics listed in the title. If you want to discuss the inclusion or utilization of another people group, make a new thread for it.
  
• Do not post with the express intent to cause an inflamatory response. (Trolling)
  
• If you see a post that you disagree with, formulate an articulate arguement as to why. If you can't, then don't post it. (Hint: one line is probably not an articulate argument.)
  

 

The purpose of this thread is to discuss that, in the event that Obsidian includes GLBT characters or themes within their game, how would you like them to be handled? What are common pitfalls that you have seen in other games? What should they avoid? What would you like them to touch on?

 

________________

 

And for the love of God, if you see a post that is an obvious troll attempt, ignore it and report it.

[Undecaf]

Oh dear...

[Jaesun]

Please make it stop.

[Entropious]

For Christ's sake, will you stop this? I think this is about the sixth topic concerning solely such nonsence. Looking at this forum, I am really starting to believe that there is a homsexual lobby out there.

 

That's it. I'm writing the moderators.

[Nonek]

I'm a moderate in all things, but i've got to agree this is getting a bit much.

[Darth Trethon]

There's already threads about transgender/gays/lesbians/STDs and pretty much every other sexual aspect of the human psyche out there. We do NOT need another one. Pretty soon there will be threads about people requesting speciffic sex positions and where to put "it" during the romance cutscenes.

[Ieo]

The purpose of this thread is to discuss that, in the event that Obsidian includes GLBT characters or themes within their game, how would you like them to be handled? What are common pitfalls that you have seen in other games? What should they avoid? What would you like them to touch on?

 

I find your thread to be irrelevant. If Obsidian handled the topic well back in the day, today should be no different.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Ieo

[Longknife]

Exactly like New Vegas did it: DON'T handle them.

 

Just have the random character here or there be gay or lesbian, but DON'T call attention to it. Just have the character be a normal quest NPC or vendor or whatever, but then maybe in conversation one day he says "could you hurry? I gotta meet up with my husband at the tavern." Bam. Simple and done. Don't make the guy flamboyantly gay so that his personality revolves around his sexuality. No, just have gay NPCs as a way of saying "hey, they're here too."

 

 

But don't call attention to it or act like they need a pity party or something. They deserve prescence in the game as well, as much as anyone else, but not as a central theme.

 

 

 

And yeah, I don't quite see the point of this thread tbh. I trust Obsidian will do it exactly as they did before.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Longknife

[TwinkieGorilla]

http://i49.tinypic.com/a59cl.png

[Grimlorn]

Please make it stop.

[vattghern]

you people need to read the rules. i quote

 

This is not a thread to discuss whether or not GLBT topics should be included in the game.

 

reported all

[Concerned Reader]

Personally, I do think that the idea of different cultures reacting to sexuality differently is a good idea. It's a realistic and mature integration of the theme, and has a precedence in our current culture. Yes, it is a medieval setting, but sexuality is not a new topic. Homosexuality didn't just spring up overnight one day.

 

The difficulty with this is that you want to be realistic without it being Homophobia Simulator 2012. It'll be a careful balance. I thought that New Vegas did a wonderful job with this on a fundamental level by having openly gay characters, as well as characters and cultures that were openly anti-gay. Though by making Ceaser's Legion the predominantly anti-gay opinion, it creates a perception that only evil groups are anti-gay, when in reality this isn't the case. Obviously this isn't an easy subject to handle.

 

Aspects of culture affect interpretations of sexuality and gender identity. I brought this up in a seperate thread with how Native American's approached Two-Spirited people.

The same style of interpretation could be used by one of the many cultures that Obsidian is planning to implement. So it is something that can add definition and realism to the world.

 

One pitfall that I'd love to avoid is the stance that Religion==anti-gay. As someone who identifies as a bisexual Christian, this is something that always bugs the hell out of me within the media. It may be an unfortunately predominant and vocal viewpoint, but it is not indicative of religion as a whole.

[Entropious]

Sir, are you obsessed, or just really horny? If the former, go find a date. If the latter, go find a dating site.

[Longknife]

Though by making Ceaser's Legion the predominantly anti-gay opinion, it creates a perception that only evil groups are anti-gay, when in reality this isn't the case. Obviously this isn't an easy subject to handle.

 

Ummm....

We playing the same game?

 

Legion and BoS both shun it because it's unproductive for society in the sense that both want people to procreate, though Legion isn't too strict about this and supposedly has tons of gay members. (or rather bisexual? I'm betting Caesar doesn't care as long as they knock up a few women) NCR supposedly has some hate towards homosexuality within the front lines that's purely bigoted.

 

Either way though, again, I don't see the need for a thread. New Vegas was very basic about touching on these themes (as it should be imo, both because that wasn't a central theme of the game and because it's stupid and downright insulting to define homosexual characters by their sexuality and nothing more), and I'd imagine PE will be more or less the same: if at all, touching on the theme in a very VERY basic way and then treating the entire issue rather non-chalantly.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Longknife

[Brodin]

Another thread on this, did the entire modern Bioware fanbase migrate here? There really is nothing wrong about including homosexual or trans or what ever else people keep whining about in god knows how many threads, if it makes sense in the setting and adds something interesting. However all these threads are purely a lot whining of their inclusion merely for the sake of inclusion which would have a quite a detrimental effect on game quality, and would add nothing of value what so ever.

Edited September 20, 2012 by Brodin

[Concerned Reader]

 

I find your thread to be irrelevant. If Obsidian handled the topic well back in the day, today should be no different.

Exactly like New Vegas did it: DON'T handle them.

 

Just have the random character here or there be gay or lesbian, but DON'T call attention to it. Just have the character be a normal quest NPC or vendor or whatever, but then maybe in conversation one day he says "could you hurry? I gotta meet up with my husband at the tavern." Bam. Simple and done. Don't make the guy flamboyantly gay so that his personality revolves around his sexuality. No, just have gay NPCs as a way of saying "hey, they're here too."

 

 

But don't call attention to it or act like they need a pity party or something. They deserve prescence in the game as well, as much as anyone else, but not as a central theme.

 

 

 

And yeah, I don't quite see the point of this thread tbh. I trust Obsidian will do it exactly as they did before.

 

I really liked how they did it in New Vegas, and I expect that they'll do it just as well in PE. I just figured that if I could make one good thread for discussion of the topic, then we wouldn't have such a flood of new threads. You have to patch the boat before you can bail out the water.

 

Also, thanks to you two for actually following the topic and having an amiable discussion.

[Ieo]

I really liked how they did it in New Vegas, and I expect that they'll do it just as well in PE. I just figured that if I could make one good thread for discussion of the topic, then we wouldn't have such a flood of new threads. You have to patch the boat before you can bail out the water.

 

Also, thanks to you two for actually following the topic and having an amiable discussion.

 

I understand your intentions, but on an internet gaming forum, these sorts of topics unfortunately degenerate very quickly without constant moderating. It's the nature of the medium.

[Entropious]

Lo and behold, a topic on heterosexuality has been locked down. And there's only one. Homosexuals have at least half a dozen, and they're just fine.

[Longknife]

I really liked how they did it in New Vegas, and I expect that they'll do it just as well in PE. I just figured that if I could make one good thread for discussion of the topic, then we wouldn't have such a flood of new threads. You have to patch the boat before you can bail out the water.

 

Also, thanks to you two for actually following the topic and having an amiable discussion.

 

I understand your intentions, but on an internet gaming forum, these sorts of topics unfortunately degenerate very quickly without constant moderating. It's the nature of the medium.

 

Are you saying people on the internet are typically being cruel and inflammatory?

 

Nonsense good sir. I won't have you needlessly tarnishing the good name of the Internites. They are a proud and noble race of objective and respectable philosophers capable of constantly productive and meaningful discussion!

[Concerned Reader]

On the topic of asexuality, I do also like the idea of a genderless or sexless species. The Salarians from Mass Effect are a good example of a gendered species that doesn't really have a concept of a sex drive. Another good example is the aliens from District 9, where they were actually physically asexual, and had a self contained reproductive system. Elemental beings could also be a good example. Their culture in and of itself might be drastically different because they have no concept of conception in the biological sense. No patriarchy or matriarchy.

 

Gender roles influence a lot more of our culture than people realise.

[Tale]

Closing thread. We would like to keep discussion on this topic limited to one thread.

 

I know it is difficult to maintain discussion in the other topics due to the passions involved, but this one was derailed right out of the gate.