Gay and Lesbian Inclusiveness!

[NoxNoctum]

But when you start trying to put specific stuff in to fill a quota, you're thinking about something other than the quality of the story. It's just a bad way to approach things in general.

 

This is plain as day in Bioware games where you see how forced and contrived it is when you come to the "token gay character" (or just romance option... it's obvious when you come across a companion you can romance... there's zero subtlety)

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoxNoctum

[Blablachar]

Seriously to me this is as ridiculous as someone demanding that Tolkien (or I guess GRMM would be a better example) put something in their next book to fit their particular group. It's just dumb. Let them write a story and let the chips fall where they may.

 

But it's barely story relevant. It's no more story relevant than a guy saying "hold on, let me ask my wife, she'd know. I'll meet you back here in an hour."

It's no more story relevant than some guy being black and that's that, with his skin color having no plot relevance or story importance other than it just being who he is.

 

So why have it?

 

Really, such homo correctness terrorism is hilarious.

[vattghern]

gay, bi, lesbian, whatever... it all has a place and should be included for the sake of realism as long as it feels natural and makes sense rather than filling a quota

[Kage Tempest]

To Be Quite Honest, The Surge of Political and Celebrity Support for the LGBT Community Is Nothing Short of Disgusting. Personally I Don't Have A Problem With LGBT People As I Have More Than A Few Gay Friends, But The Media Is Quite Literally Shoving Down Ideas That Not Being or Very Openly Supportive Of LGBT LifeStyles Is A Hate Crime. Religious Values That Have Held Together North America and the Westernized Civilization In The Past Are Pretty Much Being Put in the Archaic Bin At The Department Store. People Are Free To Believe In What They Want To Believe In, But Please, If Something of a Hot Topic Like This is Being Added For The Sake of Avoiding Angry Phone Calls From LGBT Media Activists, Please Refrain From Doing So.

 

I Want to be presented with a story free of the political turmoil and strife we are forced to experience in day to day life here in the real world. I want to be amazed, Dazzled, presented with challenges both intellectual and moral. I want to create a character I can grow to love and respect. What I don't Want is a Major Character/Companion Hitting on me on every turn of the conversation just because it is apparently the stereotype for that sort of Gay Person. The Bard in Dragon Age Origins was done fine, she wasn't open about it until you got to know her and got her to trust you through your varius adventures. The Elf Assasin guy on the other hand.....

 

but this is besides the point, If LGBT interest have to be absolutely added to this game, Treat Them AND "Normal" people with RESPECT.

[Longknife]

But when you start trying to put specific stuff in to fill a quota, you're thinking about something other than the quality of the story. It's just a bad way to approach things in general.

 

This is plain as day in Bioware games where you see how forced and contrived it is when you come to the "token gay character" (or just romance option... it's plain as day when you come across a companion you can romance... there's zero subtlety)

 

Avellone and Sawyer have produced a game before, chosen to include homosexual characters and successfully done it without having it detract from the story. They chose this and did it in a way that everyone agrees was perfect.

 

I ask again, has anyone here even PLAYED New Vegas?

 

Seriously to me this is as ridiculous as someone demanding that Tolkien (or I guess GRMM would be a better example) put something in their next book to fit their particular group. It's just dumb. Let them write a story and let the chips fall where they may.

 

But it's barely story relevant. It's no more story relevant than a guy saying "hold on, let me ask my wife, she'd know. I'll meet you back here in an hour."

It's no more story relevant than some guy being black and that's that, with his skin color having no plot relevance or story importance other than it just being who he is.

 

So why have it?

 

Really, such homo correctness terrorism is hilarious.

 

Because it's realistic.

 

Again, is having people of different skin tones relevant? No, not at all. But it IS realistic. It WOULD be awkward if everyone in the game was hispanic, and it would even come off as hateful or racist if a specific raced weren't included.

 

Same exact concept here. Homosexual characters should be included because this is the world we live in.

[Luckmann]

I would actually prefer for the majority of characters to be bisexual. It's just more handy. Like in real life, in games I fall for people, not classes/alignments/sexes. So the solution is obvious.

 

Since I'm a minority here, though, I'll have to agree with the OP.

 

It's actually an interesting topic, I think. A modern game without a gay option seems somewhat lacking and dated (to me, at least). But if PE strives to be old-school, isn't that exactly what they should be doing? Old times were not only great for their games, they were also more bigoted. So removing lesbians/gays would be a rather original way of catching the feel, wouldn't it?

 

(That's just thoughts, though. My opinion remains: bisexuals. Everyone. EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.)

That's about the worst thing they could do, all departments, of all time.

[NoxNoctum]

Did you find it hateful and racist when reading LOTR and finding that there are basically no non-white races except for the vaguely middle eastern "Easterlings"?

 

I dunno, for me I was just thinking "hey this is a great story"

 

Though it's funny, IIRC the very minor Arwen-Aragorn romance was written in as "fanservice" for Tolkien's daughter. So I guess some writers can pull it off without it feeling contrived .

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoxNoctum

[vattghern]

But when you start trying to put specific stuff in to fill a quota, you're thinking about something other than the quality of the story. It's just a bad way to approach things in general.

 

This is plain as day in Bioware games where you see how forced and contrived it is when you come to the "token gay character" (or just romance option... it's plain as day when you come across a companion you can romance... there's zero subtlety)

 

Avellone and Sawyer have produced a game before, chosen to include homosexual characters and successfully done it without having it detract from the story. They chose this and did it in a way that everyone agrees was perfect.

 

I ask again, has anyone here even PLAYED New Vegas?

 

thought youre talking about MOTB tbh

 

gann was bi and it was handled perfectly

[licketysplit]

_{Gay romance, straight romances, lesbian romances. You know what they all have in common? Herpes.}

 

_{Let’s make sure to have some STD in this baby.}

 

Only if they affect stats.

[SqueakyCat]

If it makes some players happy, I don't have a problem with it, as long as it is not done like Bioware.

[Longknife]

The Bard in Dragon Age Origins was done fine, she wasn't open about it until you got to know her and got her to trust you through your varius adventures.

 

This entire thread should require posters to prove they've actually played New Vegas before posting, as the amount of posts that should be answered with "Have you even played New Vegas" now is getting downright ridiculous.

 

We're literally talking 1-3 lines of dialog per character just to say gay people exist in the world too.

 

Veronica, you could ask "Have you ever been in love?" and she'd answer "were you ever curious? Yeah, I was once. I like to think it was love, and I hope she felt the same. I haven't seen her in a long time though." You could ask what happened and hear that the BoS didn't support their relationship because they believe everyone in their small society has a duty to procreate. BAM, over. Aside from this she would hint at her sexuality if you asked her to stay close, with nothing but a joke about preferring leggy blondes that could be taking seriously or not.

 

Arcade Gannon, he'd say "now why hasn't some lucky man swept this bachelor right off his feet?" BAM over. Done. This is all he says, aside from your ability to recruit him by flirting if your own character is gay, but you'd literally never develop a relationship with him or flirt again.

[c0wb0ycliche]

The amount of bigotry in this thread is disturbing, but I guess to be expected. Homo correctness terrorism? Sodomites? Really? Is it 2012?

 

That said, if the mods read this, please clean up the bigot posts and don't close the whole thread.

 

The point, again, is creating a story that everyone can relate to and that is inclusive. If the game will have mentions of opposite sex romance it would be wonderful to have mentions of same sex romance.

 

Obsidian (and Bioware, and RPGs in general) has a lot of gay fans, and we would love to be included in this dream project RPG. That's it. No political agenda.

[Crosmando]

Magical STD's, they turn you undead or make the woman give birth to horrifying monsters from the nether. Always use protection.... spells

[NoxNoctum]

The Bard in Dragon Age Origins was done fine, she wasn't open about it until you got to know her and got her to trust you through your varius adventures.

 

This entire thread should require posters to prove they've actually played New Vegas before posting, as the amount of posts that should be answered with "Have you even played New Vegas" now is getting downright ridiculous.

 

We're literally talking 1-3 lines of dialog per character just to say gay people exist in the world too.

 

Veronica, you could ask "Have you ever been in love?" and she'd answer "were you ever curious? Yeah, I was once. I like to think it was love, and I hope she felt the same. I haven't seen her in a long time though." You could ask what happened and hear that the BoS didn't support their relationship because they believe everyone in their small society has a duty to procreate. BAM, over. Aside from this she would hint at her sexuality if you asked her to stay close, with nothing but a joke about preferring leggy blondes that could be taking seriously or not.

 

Arcade Gannon, he'd say "now why hasn't some lucky man swept this bachelor right off his feet?" BAM over. Done. This is all he says, aside from your ability to recruit him by flirting if your own character is gay, but you'd literally never develop a relationship with him or flirt again.

 

But they didn't put that in because they were pressured into it by fans (right?), but because they thought it suited the story.

 

I guess for me that's the bottom line. I want the story, the world, the characters etc in it to be dictated by Obsidian's good judgment and not by filling any fan demands whatsoever.

Edited September 18, 2012 by NoxNoctum

[Monte Carlo]

Let's go back to the original design goals, i.e. to capture old-school isometric tactical fantasy CRPGs. These were before Bioware turned into an emo joke with legions of Joss Wheedon fans.

 

These games were not predicated on romances of any sort with the exception of BG2 which has four (count them) minor, text-only, relationships which were completely avoidable.

 

From that minor feature in 2001 we now have too many threads on this subject (couldn't the OP have added to one of the others?). And this is because people clearly want this game to be like Dragon Age or Dragon Age 2 of Meh Effect or whatever other piece of Bioware dating-sim-nonsense they were playing before.

 

Please try to understand that the majority of people don't want (a) ANY romances (b) ANY references to sex or sexuality and © view it as a waste of developer's time.

 

Thanks.

 

I'm not entirely convinced that the majority of people don't want any romances or sexual references. At least not on this board anyway, I believe the poll in the romance thread has quite a bit more people for it than against it.

 

The squeakiest wheel gets the most oil.

[Longknife]

The Bard in Dragon Age Origins was done fine, she wasn't open about it until you got to know her and got her to trust you through your varius adventures.

 

This entire thread should require posters to prove they've actually played New Vegas before posting, as the amount of posts that should be answered with "Have you even played New Vegas" now is getting downright ridiculous.

 

We're literally talking 1-3 lines of dialog per character just to say gay people exist in the world too.

 

Veronica, you could ask "Have you ever been in love?" and she'd answer "were you ever curious? Yeah, I was once. I like to think it was love, and I hope she felt the same. I haven't seen her in a long time though." You could ask what happened and hear that the BoS didn't support their relationship because they believe everyone in their small society has a duty to procreate. BAM, over. Aside from this she would hint at her sexuality if you asked her to stay close, with nothing but a joke about preferring leggy blondes that could be taking seriously or not.

 

Arcade Gannon, he'd say "now why hasn't some lucky man swept this bachelor right off his feet?" BAM over. Done. This is all he says, aside from your ability to recruit him by flirting if your own character is gay, but you'd literally never develop a relationship with him or flirt again.

 

But they didn't put that in because they were pressured into it by fans (right?), but because they thought it suited the story.

 

I guess for me that's the bottom line. I want the story, the world, the characters etc in it to be dictated by Obsidian's good judgment and not by filling any fan demands whatsoever.

 

As I recall....

 

I'm afraid I don't know the person's name, but there was one homosexual developer/writer they had on staff responsible for some of the gay and lesbian characters. I can't recall the person's name, as sadly I saw them in a list of developers that had to be laid off when Obsidian had to make cuts. Just remember some quote by the person saying they felt proud of their portrayal of gays and lesbians in New Vegas (as they should've been).

 

However, as someone else already mentioned, it seemed Sawyer made a quota and the devs adapted to it easily.

Again, Gannon and Veronica weren't defined by their sexuality, these were minor characteristics of theirs. It wasn't like Gannon was flaming gay or Veronica hit on every woman under the sun; infact their dialog pertaining to their sexuality was very limited.

 

This went for ALL characters in New Vegas. I think the only one who stood out as being somewhat defined by his sexuality was Jimmy, who was one of the only gay male prostitutes in the game, so it sorta made sense for his sexuality to define him and for him to be more flamboyant.

 

I sincerely doubt fan pressure played a role in this as coming from FO3, there were practically no homosexuals there. Demands for New Vegas were typical Fallout expectations.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Longknife

[BasaltineBadger]

Isn't Sawyer pro social justice and stuff? Also, there were gay people in New Vegas and I think that Gann from MoTB was supposed to be bi, so I suppose we may safely assume that there will be gay characters in Eternity for sure.

[el pinko grande]

For all the furor in this thread, I really don't think anyone would care if this subject were handled in the same way in Project: Eternity as it was in F:NV. That said, I'm really amused by how upset so many people seemed to have been by Zevran in Dragon Age: Origins. A gay man flirted with your PC! What an unpardonable crime!

[Tale]

For all the furor in this thread, I really don't think anyone would care if this subject were handled in the same way in Project: Eternity as it was in F:NV. That said, I'm really amused by how upset so many people seemed to have been by Zevran in Dragon Age: Origins. A gay man flirted with your PC! What an unpardonable crime!

He was just all kinds of creepy. Visas level creepy.

 

Yeeeeeeeees.

[Longknife]

For all the furor in this thread, I really don't think anyone would care if this subject were handled in the same way in Project: Eternity as it was in F:NV. That said, I'm really amused by how upset so many people seemed to have been by Zevran in Dragon Age: Origins. A gay man flirted with your PC! What an unpardonable crime!

 

Am I the only straight guy that finds it flattering to be hit on by a gay dude?

I may be hella homophobic in regards to any actual male-male contact (seriously, a hug can bother me if it's longer than 3 seconds), but wtf being told I'm hot or likeable is nice no matter who gives the compliment.

[Bloodshard]

All and all i don't care if they add in gays and lesbians or not, its not going to change the story or how the game is played. i'm sure most people who will play the game don't care. I see this exact same post in every developing game forum i have ever been on, and it always makes me wonder if it gets so big because of people who really want equality or some horny gamer who just wants to see lesbian sex... don't get me wrong i'm all for equality but i don't want to see a good game turned into any type of plotless orgy because of pressure from fans. And besides Gays and lesbians have been in RPG's for a long time, i cant think of many that don't have them, so if you have issues with homosexuals you obviously haven't looked for them in the games you have.

[Luckmann]

Isn't Sawyer pro social justice and stuff? Also, there were gay people in New Vegas and I think that Gann from MoTB was supposed to be bi, so I suppose we may safely assume that there will be gay characters in Eternity for sure.

When your social causes start to interfere with your work, particularly as a writer or artist, it is time to take a few steps back and ask yourself what the hell you're doing. Stop trying to fit square pegs into the round holes.

 

For all the furor in this thread, I really don't think anyone would care if this subject were handled in the same way in Project: Eternity as it was in F:NV. That said, I'm really amused by how upset so many people seemed to have been by Zevran in Dragon Age: Origins. A gay man flirted with your PC! What an unpardonable crime!

I would have been less upset if I could actually handle it in an adult or mature manner. I should have been able to earn that disapproval I got from him. Likewise, having a man-whore throw himself at you is almost as disturbing in a game as in reality. Edited September 18, 2012 by Luckmann

[Monte Carlo]

* shrugs * I'm very tolerant person. I don't like some of the language in this thread either. It doesn't mean that I agree with the OP, I'm anti-all romances. And it certainly doesn't mean I'm a bigot, that's a bit of a cheap straw-man rearing it's head if it's aimed at me.

 

I'm certainly not against references to any number of different lifestyles. Including sexual ones. A fantasy culture where, for example, same-sex relationships were venerated and mandatory for the elite (Troy, anyone?) might be interesting. Another where rampant and murderous homophobia is the order of the day mightmake a powerful story too.

 

In context this is fine. What bugs me is the clamour for sexualised content, as if this automatically constitutes mature or old-skool gaming styles and values (because it doesn't).

Edited September 18, 2012 by Monte Carlo

[el pinko grande]

For all the furor in this thread, I really don't think anyone would care if this subject were handled in the same way in Project: Eternity as it was in F:NV. That said, I'm really amused by how upset so many people seemed to have been by Zevran in Dragon Age: Origins. A gay man flirted with your PC! What an unpardonable crime!

Well, he was ugly and had a crappy accent. If he'd been handsome I might not have minded.

 

The problem was, they gave him an Inigo Montoya accent, but did not make him as cool as Inigo Montoya. That's like false advertising.

Edited September 18, 2012 by el pinko grande

[licketysplit]

For all the furor in this thread, I really don't think anyone would care if this subject were handled in the same way in Project: Eternity as it was in F:NV. That said, I'm really amused by how upset so many people seemed to have been by Zevran in Dragon Age: Origins. A gay man flirted with your PC! What an unpardonable crime!

 

Am I the only straight guy that finds it flattering to be hit on by a gay dude?

I may be hella homophobic in regards to any actual male-male contact (seriously, a hug can bother me if it's longer than 3 seconds), but wtf being told I'm hot or likeable is nice no matter who gives the compliment.

 

You just haven't been hit on by the wrong dude.