Sex and Romance Poll

[Grimlorn]

This is a RPG. Not a sex/social simulator for deviants who can't build a relationship in real life.

Do you know how stupid...

 

(yes, I said stupid. s-t-u-p-i-d)

 

that argument is?

 

Truly stupid.

 

If you want combat, go out there and have some. You want adventure? Go out there and have some. You want some friendships? Go out there and have some. You want to manage inventories? Go out there and manage some. Want to kill people? Guess what.

 

Seriously, stop it. If you really want to irrationally hate romances in videogames, do it. But at least have decency of using non-childish arguments for it. At least when we are talking about Obsidian and their intentions of a solid and mature game. Tell me about limited resources, tell me about feature creep, tell me about difficulty in writing, tell me about something related to the game itself but stop slinging insults that don't really defend your point.

I'm not slinging any kind of insults. I'm offended you'd even insinuate I am. My arguments aren't childish. That's just your opinion. Just like it's my opinion that it's actually immature to need these kinds of relationships in video games that make them worse.

 

I just don't like them. I can't think of a RPG that really benefited from having a romance that wouldn't have been better without. That's just the truth. And I guarantee that most of the people asking for them here are asking for romances similar to Bioware games. Which are terrible btw. More of a fact than opinion on that.

[Zere]

Keep killing and violence in the games, keep sex and romance in the real life.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Zere

[Drowsy Emperor]

Ah, romance topics seem to be spawning like zerglings.

 

No.

 

Enough of this idiocy with making every RPG into a hentai date sim. BGII may be my favorite game of all time but at this point I'm sorry they included the romances at all.

 

What Bioware passed of as romance post BGII is about as realistic as the possibility of opening your wardrobe and stepping into Narnia.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[war:head]

I'm kinda surprised by the amount of rejection towards romance (and the amount of people equalizing romance and sex). It's an RPG, character development and social relations are part of it and they should be.

If two party members grow close to each other, why shouldn't they? If the player grows close to a party member (or NPC), why shouldn't they either? Isn't that the greatest compliment to make to the authors - to feel emotionally attached to a character?

 

And to those who don't want this kind of immersion - just don't pursue it. Why limit the gaming experience for others because of something you don't like?

[Drowsy Emperor]

Because the inclusion of pointless romantic plots directly limits our gaming experience by taking away resources that could be quests, clever dialog, and using them for something that's to us useless.

 

Besides, in RPGs romance (with an exception or two) = minigame to get sex.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Grimlorn]

I'm kinda surprised by the amount of rejection towards romance (and the amount of people equalizing romance and sex). It's an RPG, character development and social relations are part of it and they should be.

If two party members grow close to each other, why shouldn't they? If the player grows close to a party member (or NPC), why shouldn't they either? Isn't that the greatest compliment to make to the authors - to feel emotionally attached to a character?

 

And to those who don't want this kind of immersion - just don't pursue it. Why limit the gaming experience for others because of something you don't like?

The thing is, it isn't really a romance. Have you seen the "romances" in Bioware games. It's 3 conversations, then sex, then nothing else which tells you it's really just about the sex. You have 1 or 2 conversations with them and they're telling you they love you and want to have sex with you. It's a joke.

 

And to those who don't want this kind of immersion - just don't pursue it. Why limit the gaming experience for others because of something you don't like?

It limits the game experience for everyone because resources go into making that crap. It's not like they have unlimited resources and put everything they want into a game and adding romances doesn't affect anything. They have finite time and money that would be taken from the base game and put into relationships with npcs when they could add more dialogue, story, races, or classes, etc. Just doesn't belong in games and has never really been done well. Edited September 18, 2012 by Grimlorn

[Jiraboas]

Guys:

 

Its okay to have your opinion, but dont forget to ARGUE.

 

In my opinion immersion is the strongest argument for romances in games.

 

I dont unterstand why people only can think of "hentai dating sim" or such nonsense.

 

I think people dont want a childish sex scene like DA: O. They want that the companions act like real persons. And a real person not only kill orks and wear heavy armors to kill more orks, THEIR HAVE FEELINGS.

 

I do unterstand if you dont like romances, but i dont understand why you cant differ between "dating sim" and personal acting of the companions...

 

kind regards,

 

Jira

Edited September 18, 2012 by Jiraboas

[Longknife]

Guys:

 

Its okay to have your opinion, but dont forget to ARGUE.

 

In my opinion immersion is the strongest argument for romances in games.

 

I dont unterstand why people only can think of "hentai dating sim" or such nonsense.

 

I think people dont want a childish sex scene like on DA: O. They want that the companions act like reale persons. And a real person not only kill orks and wear heavy armors to kill more orks, THEIR HAVE FEELINGS.

 

I do unterstand if you dont like romances, but i dont understand why you cant differ between dating sim and personal acting of the companions...

 

kind regards,

 

Jira

 

Because for some of us it's the exact opposite.

I for one have trouble expressing or experiencing or pretending such strong emotions in an RPG. It feels like it cheapens a very real and very strong emotion; I don't think it's something that can be properly simulated, at least for me. Thus, when games DO try it, it comes off as cringe-worthy for me, because I can't help but feel like the game wants me to feel emotional in some way (whether horny or attached to the character), but I just DON'T. Then I have my character claiming he is, and it just feels so fake and I feel out of place and it breaks my immersion.

 

Or if a game offers it truly as an option, sadly, in my experience, it's typically beneficial to take the option, or at least gives that impression. So you end up with some elf hitting on you hardcore, and you feel obligated to flirt back, or like you're supposed to and the game expects this from you and will reward you for playing along.

 

 

If it were to be in game, it should truly be an option with no benefit or downside, or equal benefits and downsides at the very least.

But something else we should keep in mind is that neither Sawyer nor Avellone seem wild about this feature, so maybe it wouldn't be wise to force them to spend time and resources on it instead of letting them do something they wanna do.

[casa]

It depends entirely on the author's writing skills whether we're ending up with a Hentai dating sim or an immersive, mature romance plot. I trust Obsidian's skills enough to expect more than the first.

[Jarmo]

*sarcasm begins here*

 

If you want to flirt with and date an elf princess, or tame a rough assasin brute with your body,

do so in real life! Your wife wont mind your occasional joyrides.

 

Besides, all game romances are just 2 lines of text and then "you had amazing sex". It can be no other way.

And writing such volumes takes 2 months of developement time, for each line. And then there's no time left to add the plot, which sucks.

 

*sarcasm ends here*

Edited September 18, 2012 by Jarmo

[Drowsy Emperor]

Its possible to make the player care about an in game character (even inanimate objects, like HL2 companion cube), but to make a convincing love story between the PC and an NPC is next to impossible.

PC and Jaheira in BGII had something of the sort but that a very small part of a very large and long game and it made a sort of sense considering how much time they spent together and how much time a player spent actively playing the game - the romance would only pop up occasionally and not be a bother.

 

They're not going to make a 200 hour game. Its probably going to be around 20-30 hours and every romance in that short a span will feel crammed in and rushed.

 

@Casa. I don't. None of Obsidians writers have shown interest (a prerequisite of being good at something, because it assumes practice) in writing great romances. Avellone is more into philosophical themes, the rest, well, I haven't seen any particular preferences among them.

Edited September 18, 2012 by Drowsy Emperor

[Grimlorn]

If you want to flirt with and date an elf princess, or tame a rough assasin brute with your body,

do so in real life! Your wife wont mind your occasional joyrides.

 

Besides, all game romances are just 2 lines of text and then "you had amazing sex". It can be no other way.

And writing such volumes takes 2 months of developement time, for each line. And then there's no time left to add the plot, which sucks.

Yeah but you know how entitled these "romance" fans are. They have to have it or it ruins their immersion into RPGs. Truth is they just don't really like good RPGs.

[Jiraboas]

But something else we should keep in mind is that neither Sawyer nor Avellone seem wild about this feature, so maybe it wouldn't be wise to force them to spend time and resources on it instead of letting them do something they wanna do.

 

Thats a important point. Do you have some kind of interview about this topic?

 

This not that i dont trust you, but i do like read it by my own, just to be sure

 

If the game designers dont like to add romances to their game, i dont want to force them. Maybe they can do it for the fans, but if they dont like it, it dont become the quality it has to have to convince the critics

 

kind regards,

 

Jira

Edited September 18, 2012 by Jiraboas

[casa]

Its probably going to be around 20-30 hours

 

I'm actually expecting more than that. Much more.

[Longknife]

But something else we should keep in mind is that neither Sawyer nor Avellone seem wild about this feature, so maybe it wouldn't be wise to force them to spend time and resources on it instead of letting them do something they wanna do.

 

Thats a important point. Do you have some kind of interview about this topic?

 

This not that i dont trust you, but i do like read it by my own, just to be sure

 

If the game designers dont like to add romances to their game, i dont want to force them. Maybe the can do it for the fans, but if they dont like it, it dont become the quality it has to have to convince the critics

 

kind regards,

 

Jira

 

Don't have it on me, but you'll find it here in the forums.

 

Sawyer regularly states this here and on his formspring, think someone else posted a link to an old article or link to a post by Avellone saying he hates doing it too. I just remember seeing them, but not where. Given that they were here though, I'm sure someone will see this convo of ours, remember where they are and pull them up.

[Elerond]

Besides, all game romances are just 2 lines of text and then "you had amazing sex". It can be no other way.

And writing such volumes takes 2 months of developement time, for each line. And then there's no time left to add the plot, which sucks.

 

This sentences fight against each other or you think that professional writers write in very low speed.

[Grimlorn]

Its probably going to be around 20-30 hours

 

I'm actually expecting more than that. Much more.

We'll be lucky if it's 40-60 hours really. What do you guys think can be accomplished with 1-2 million dollars. Say it hits 3 million, which is very possible. Fallout was made with 3 million 15 years ago. 3 million isn't worth as much today as it was back then. You also have kickstarter fees. 5-10% of the money is gone before the devs even get it.

[casa]

First off, I don't expect only two people (say, Sawyer/Avellone) writing the whole game. And then, what I'd expect from Obsidian is exactly NOT giving us the "my little pony" stuff Bioware writes, because yes - that's uninteresting. I sure hope they don't want to write romance plots like that and aim for something much more mature and immersive. And it's really not all about getting laid in an isometric view, but about immersion, realistic and believable characters who grow on you during a long epic travel.

[Drowsy Emperor]

Hey I want it to be a 100 hour game, I just don't think that's gonna happen.

[Grimlorn]

First off, I don't expect only two people (say, Sawyer/Avellone) writing the whole game. And then, what I'd expect from Obsidian is exactly NOT giving us the "my little pony" stuff Bioware writes, because yes - that's uninteresting. I sure hope they don't want to write romance plots like that and aim for something much more mature and immersive. And it's really not all about getting laid in an isometric view, but about immersion, realistic and believable characters who grow on you during a long epic travel.

Well it's not realistic to be in love with someone after 2 or 3 conversations. And if you're asking for it to be more immersive and believable that means more resources put towards creating dialogue and story throughout the game just for romance options. And then you have to give romance options for both men and women. Then LGBT would also want romance options so they don't feel discriminated against. It would just turn into a Bioware "romance" fest. Edited September 18, 2012 by Grimlorn

[Entropious]

Although, admittedly, this is mostly dictated by my personal tastes, I would really like for the game to introduce meaningful romance. If any actual sex scenes were to be included, something along the lines of what "The Witcher 2" brought about would be preferred - tasteful, elegant, yet absolutely erotic and adult.

However, I could really live without homosexual romances. I understand that currently the West is dominated by what is called "political corectness" or "cultural Marxism" but afters seeing the sausage fest that was Dragon Age 2, as well as the overall feel of said romances being rammed in just for the sake of gaining applause from certain miniscule communities and gaining free publicity through controversy, I give such ideas a big thumbs down.

[casa]

We'll be lucky if it's 40-60 hours really. What do you guys think can be accomplished with 1-2 million dollars. Say it hits 3 million, which is very possible. Fallout was made with 3 million 15 years ago. 3 million isn't worth as much today as it was back then. You also have kickstarter fees. 5-10% of the money is gone before the devs even get it.

 

However, we're not talking about a new AAA title with cutting edge technology here - if you want to develop an oldschool RPG in the style of old Infinity games nowadays, you can do that as an Indie developer. No licensing of a costy CryEngine 2, no middleware and all that, even heavy cuts on voiceovers and multi language... I do believe that Obsidian can make quite a bit out of those funds by now already, given they don't make a Fallout 4 or Dragon Age 3.

[Troller]

Although, admittedly, this is mostly dictated by my personal tastes, I would really like for the game to introduce meaningful romance. If any actual sex scenes were to be included, something along the lines of what "The Witcher 2" brought about would be preferred - tasteful, elegant, yet absolutely erotic and adult.

However, I could really live without homosexual romances. I understand that currently the West is dominated by what is called "political corectness" or "cultural Marxism" but afters seeing the sausage fest that was Dragon Age 2, as well as the overall feel of said romances being rammed in just for the sake of gaining applause from certain miniscule communities and gaining free publicity through controversy, I give such ideas a big thumbs down.

I agree man, but even if they include homosexual romances, you can rest assured it's not gonna be like in dragon age, the guys at obsidian are much more reasonable and smart...I mean who wrote the dragon age sausage fest? some fan fic guy wasnt it?

here we are dealing with pros...

[MaverickStrange]

I vote for all of the above. I believe romances, when well played, enhance the story. And it's good to have choices so that everyone is satisfied.

On a side note, has anyone thought of the possibility of romancing characters not in your party? I think it would also be interesting.

Edited September 18, 2012 by MaverickStrange

[casa]

Although, admittedly, this is mostly dictated by my personal tastes, I would really like for the game to introduce meaningful romance. If any actual sex scenes were to be included, something along the lines of what "The Witcher 2" brought about would be preferred - tasteful, elegant, yet absolutely erotic and adult.

However, I could really live without homosexual romances. I understand that currently the West is dominated by what is called "political corectness" or "cultural Marxism" but afters seeing the sausage fest that was Dragon Age 2, as well as the overall feel of said romances being rammed in just for the sake of gaining applause from certain miniscule communities and gaining free publicity through controversy, I give such ideas a big thumbs down.

I agree man, but even if they include homosexual romances, you can rest assured it's not gonna be like in dragon age, the guys at obsidian are much more reasonable and smart...I mean who wrote the dragon age sausage fest? some fan fic guy wasnt it?

here we are dealing with pros...

 

Just look at Fallout:NV's two gay companions, they were much more believable than anything in DA2 without you even having the option to romance them. I trust Obsidian to stay on a high artistic level and not compromise a character only as a fan service.