SW: The Old Republic Part 2

[Hurlshort]

I didn't give them to the soldiers either. The way it was stated was you were just going to get a guy sleeping at his post out of trouble. Compare that to a woman in the refugee camp trying to help the sick, and it's hard to make the soldier choice, really. It seems clear that the Republic has a pretty large inventory of this stuff, and it's just bureaucratic tape that is keeping it out of the hands of the refugees. That anti-government stuff may not sit well with Cant, but it's just a video game folks.

 

The big thing is there are just tons of these choices, and making a few DS ones isn't going to turn you into the Emperor. I found my Jedi toeing the line quite a bit, flirting with the ladies but still trying to do the right thing.

[Cantousent]

Hey, I'm a libertarian. I don't think the government is God. It's also something that you're trying to get a buddy out of trouble for sleeping at his post, which should get him a swift boot to head in my opinion, as opposed to literally saving some kid's life. That's a big difference. There are times and places where sleeping on watch would result in summary execution. Not because it hurts the government but because it will get your buddies killed. All of this is quite edifying, though. And does show a lot of growth on Bioware's part if true.

[Maria Caliban]

Hm, the dark/light side choices of the Trooper tend to involve things like the question on whether stolen medicine should be returned to the troopers who it was meant for, or provided to the sick refugees who originally stole it..

 

WTF? How are either of those shiny good guy? Or evil, come to that.

They're not. But this is Star Wars, so they're pushed into light points and dark points anyway. It doesn't help that what light and dark is seems to change depending on the storyline or quest.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Maria Caliban

[Luso]

The thing about lovers quest is that they are clearly unstable when you first talk to them, your actually saving there lives...or a KwuuuL Black yellow lightsaber crystal.

 

Didn't Lucas say that one night stands where Ok why am getting DS points for this XD.

 

Also any one else did not like the Revan novel?

[Calax]

We talked about the Revan novel earlier.

 

And the lovers quest is just annoying. It's written so there's an obvious imbalance (to the point that I'd consider them unbalanced if they were just walking around and not attached)... the dude in particular seems Schitzo ("I love you!" and yet as SOON as you simply say "eh, maybe you're acting a little off the handle its "I'm breaking up with you for the good of the galaxy, we're just friends now!" without even a moments consideration.

[Hurlshort]

The thing about lovers quest is that they are clearly unstable when you first talk to them, your actually saving there lives...or a KwuuuL Black yellow lightsaber crystal.

 

Didn't Lucas say that one night stands where Ok why am getting DS points for this XD.

 

Also any one else did not like the Revan novel?

 

You can earn those points you get for sleeping with the Twilek right back by confessing to your master about it, so obviously it's not too dark

[Nepenthe]

And the lovers quest is just annoying. It's written so there's an obvious imbalance (to the point that I'd consider them unbalanced if they were just walking around and not attached)... the dude in particular seems Schitzo ("I love you!" and yet as SOON as you simply say "eh, maybe you're acting a little off the handle its "I'm breaking up with you for the good of the galaxy, we're just friends now!" without even a moments consideration.

Are we talking about the same one? On Tython? Where you are snitching on the two Padawans who have a relationship? It didn't go that way at all with the choices I picked.

[Calax]

Well, I didn't rat them out, but I got back to them and found that the other two options I had to them were "Where's my bribe" and "I hope you have a nice fall" so I picked the "light side" of "I'm giving you one chance" and INSTANTLY the guy was "Oh... you're giving us a chance to renounce our love and follow the code! THANKS!" and when I confirmed this he turned around and killed the relationship in two sentances and took off.

[Raithe]

There also seem to be a few dialogues and choices where its not a light or dark side.. You can actually pick options that throw in a light side choice in with a bunch of neutral ones. (or dark side with a bunch of neutral).

 

I actually ended up playing till about 4am last night not realising they've apparently extended the test by a day?

Not sure if it's the way I've been playing it, but my Trooper hit 23rd, has a ship and just picked up his second Havoc Squad member.

 

I will say the starship combat is actually kind of fun. But, that's possibly because I have fond memories of the old Afterburner arcade game...

[Hurlshort]

Well, I didn't rat them out, but I got back to them and found that the other two options I had to them were "Where's my bribe" and "I hope you have a nice fall" so I picked the "light side" of "I'm giving you one chance" and INSTANTLY the guy was "Oh... you're giving us a chance to renounce our love and follow the code! THANKS!" and when I confirmed this he turned around and killed the relationship in two sentances and took off.

 

Love is a fickle master young padawan.

[Gorgon]

It's not easy shoehorning Jedi lore into actual human behavior.

[Hurlshort]

So I'm curious what those of you non-MMOers think of the game so far? I knew I'd love it because I enjoy MMO's, but I wonder how it stacks up as a story driven RPG experience. It seemed to be pretty solid to me, I could see playing it for a month or two just for the storylines and then quitting.

[Nepenthe]

So I'm curious what those of you non-MMOers think of the game so far? I knew I'd love it because I enjoy MMO's, but I wonder how it stacks up as a story driven RPG experience. It seemed to be pretty solid to me, I could see playing it for a month or two just for the storylines and then quitting.

I think I qualify, as my last "mom" was a text-based one that involved absolutely colossal amounts of grinding and even with 100+ days of active game time I was a virtual nothing.

 

I played two classes to level five, but so far I really liked the "quick quests" structure in the early phases, which is going to help a lot with my gaming (at least in the early stages, i assume things become significantly more involved later on). I tried out both the consular and the smuggler, expecting not to like them but in fact finding quite the opposite. Now seriously considering doing a consular first. Wish I'd had more time to see how it develops a bit further, but way too busy with job change stuff this weekend to give it the attention I wanted.

 

Gameplay seemed fun even solo, unfortunately I didn't get any companions so I couldn't form a full picture of that, either. I have a bunch of friends, including some from my MUD days who're contemplating a comeback with this one, might turn out to be a long-term investment for all of us if the bug bites again. Even if it doesn't, it looks like the stories themselves might be fun to play for a while, possibly even for a longer time.

[Oner]

Word of warning, never ever judge an mmo before you've played it for at least a month.

[Volourn]

" If you subvert yourself during Jedi training, you are the problem."

 

No. the problem is organizations you try to enslave their members and turning them into non human brainwashed machines.

 

 

 

"There are times and places where sleeping on watch would result in summary execution. Not because it hurts the government but because it will get your buddies killed."

 

Only evil scumbags murder someone in cold blood because they fell asleep which is a human condition. If you feel he is incaspable of doing the job the weakness was in his bosses who put him in such a situation, and THEY should be the ones disciplined for fialing their management skills. He should be disciplined or fired not murdered. Period.

[Nepenthe]

Word of warning, never ever judge an mmo before you've played it for at least a month.

Oh, I know that much. Also this new laptop has some funky autocorrect, and turns mmo into mom :D

[Jackalmonkey]

A question for those of you who've gotten appreciably far: does the game world ever open up?

 

I played through to Coruscant and was unimpressed by the instanced and discontinuous nature of the game world. I've not played WoW in a long time, but players could run from one side of the continent to the other if they so pleased, and I think Blizzard only expanded the openness of the world in recent expansions. Moreover, everyone participated in the same game world all the time, which added to the world's sense of persistence and the player's sense of immersion.

 

In my brief time playing TOR, I found myself shunted from one location to another on rails, following pre-determined questlines along optimized routes with no alternatives. Once I finished my designated starting area, I and apparently everyone else was forced to migrate collectively to Coruscant. And both Coruscant and the starter areas aren't really 'worlds' in the open sense; they're essentially just large corridor-based dungeons with occassional questgiver/vendor areas. Moreover, the areas are actually instanced so that even players in the same region may not be able to interact with each other unless one of them phases through to the other's instance.

 

This concern is moot if players are eventually permitted to make decisions about where to go and what to do; perhaps Coruscant is just another starter area to familiarize players with key game concepts (though if so it's a hell of a long tutorial). So having tried the beta, I'm left wondering whether or not we're ever able to break out of these instanced corridors and to get into genuinely open territory.

[Raithe]

A question for those of you who've gotten appreciably far: does the game world ever open up?

 

Okay, I decided to focus on one class (the one I'm least likely to play early on) and see how it all opened up, and the spaceships and companions, and what a class-story-line looked like.

 

So far, I've ran a Trooper up to 26th level, I've picked up two companions (one a growly male trooper type, and the other a female field medic type) and gone around a couple of worlds. Apparently different classes will shift how many companions you get at any stage. There were Jedi knights running around who've picked up two companiosn by the time they were 16th. But as a trooper, I didn't get my 2nd until I'd finished the class-storyline at Taris (and I was around 24th then). I have to say, the ex-imperial who defected to the republic because all the Imps broke their own laws and fostered corruption actually comes across as quite interesting. And it's kind of funny that she's got a hot british accent and they keep making reference to how that's the Imperial accent.

 

Once you get your ship, the whole universe opens up. Technically you can go to any of the planets.. but all the planets do have level ranges, so there's limits to what you can actually do at them. There seem to be a couple of planets for each level range, and they seem split on what class-stories are run.

 

Starting world introduces that class-story, then you head off to Coruscant. You end the prologue by getting your ship. Then it's Act 1 and the universe is at your feet - but the trooper storyline will focus you on two planets (Taris & Nar Shadaa). If you go to other worlds, you get access to the various world storylines and assorted sub-quests, but you'll be missing out on the class-related story. So swings and roundabouts to exactly what you prefer.

 

It really does feel like Kotor writ large. The same style of maps..just..way, way bigger. Taris is frikken huge. You can wander wherever you want.. but you might not be able to deal with what you find.

[Cantousent]

[Volourn]

You don't have to prove to me these things happen in RL. I know it does. the point is if you murder someone coldly simply because they feel asleep means you are evil. Plain and simple. It also shows very poor leadership since it was likely the leaders who placed the person in a position to fail (ie. have them up for 24 hours continually). Afterall, the army is known to physically push the human body to exhaustion. The onus of failure is on leadership.

 

 

" far as the two lovers: The Jedi are putatively the guardians at the gate. They are literally the people who stand between bad guys and the population. I didn't say the lovers should not be allowed to love. I simply said that it is reasonable that they should be required to leave the organization in order to preserve it. Once again, I'm relying on the info and descriptions I get, but the Jedi aren't members of a social club. They are members of an order and, while they should be allowed to live their lives as they see fit, they should not be allowed to remain members of an exclusive order in defiance of that order's rules.

"

 

Many organziations have dumb rules. The Jedi 'rule' of not allowing one to love is one of those. Being able to love is not a sign of evil or being unable to love. Darth Vader didn't fall to darks ide because of love but because of hate.

Rules are meant to be changed.

 

I guess you approve of those freeing of slaves being execuedt because they broke the rules right? Ridiculous.

 

If your rule is so asanine and pathetic the rule should be changed. Period. Jedis aren't gonna fall a aprt because its members fell in love. What a ridiculous notion.

 

It rmeinds of moran business in modern times trying to make 'though shall not fall in love with coworkers' rules. It's just plain dumb, pathetic, and evil.

[Cantousent]

You're making arguments against things I didn't say, Vol. Inasmuch as I didn't bring slavery into it, I don't know why you did.

 

...And, to be clear, I said that execution for sleeping on watch is something that is not likely even in a time of war in the US military. Hell, When was the last time someone was executed for desertion? That guy from World War Two? And he was remarkable for being the only person executed for that reason during that war.

 

Furthermore, Vol, carefully read what I said. I didn't condone executing people. I said that there were places and times when a guy would be summarily executed for sleeping on watch. I was actually thinking more of ancient times. What I did say was that the guy sleeping on watch deserved a kick in the head. Trust me, you sleep on watch enough and cause problems for the rest of your comrades and you'll get a boot to the head completely outside of official punishment. Now, if you don't like that idea, I guess it's a good thing you're not in the military. Sorry bud, there have to be consequences for dereliction of duty, and the guy would probably rather get a fat lip than be docked a months pay, lose a stripe, or even face an other than honorable discharge.

 

Now, you say the rules in the order are dumb? Okay, fair enough. Don't join. What I said begins and ends with the order having the right to remove members who don't follow the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules, then don't join or get out. It's as simple as that. Unless someone nabbed these jedi and chained them to the oars, I don't see how you can defend them. I would say that the Jedi order follows more religious lines. It is not considered a 'job.' It's a calling. If you want a job where you can sleep with coworkers, go for it. Frankly, I don't care who sleeps with whom unless there is a conflict of interest. Where there is a defined conflict of interest, then an employer should be able to enforce fraternization rules.

 

As far as law being unjust, that's where I left off the argument earlier. I completely agree that sometimes laws are unjust and it falls upon people to work as best they can to change such laws. ...But that's a huge new area of discussion and I don't want to get into a flame war over it in the middle of this thread. Frankly, I would probably avoid a long discussion on it period, but I guess you could start a thread in WoT and I'll poke my head in there just to put a target on it since it's only fair. After all, while you have not characterized my arguments entirely accurately, I've clearly touched a nerve and you deserve some satisfaction over it. :cant's rueful grin icon:

 

EDIT: cleared up a couple things for clarity.

Edited November 28, 2011 by Cantousent

[Volourn]

"Sorry bud, there have to be consequences for dereliction of duty, and the guy would probably rather get a fat lip than be docked a months pay, lose a stripe, or even face an other than honorable discharge."

 

Look at that. Actual options that don't involve murdering someone in cold blood.

 

 

 

"Now, you say the rules in the order are dumb? Okay, fair enough. Don't join. What I said begins and ends with the order having the right to remove members who don't follow the rules. If you don't want to follow the rules, then don't join or get out. It's as simple as that. Unless someone nabbed these jedi and chained them to the oars, I don't see how you can defend them. I would say that the Jedi order follows more religious lines. It is not considered a 'job.' It's a calling. If you want a job where you can sleep with coworkers, go for it. Frankly, I don't care who sleeps with whom unless there is a conflict of interest. Where there is a defined conflict of interest, then an employer should be able to enforce fraternization rules."

 

No. An employer shouldn't have the right to do that. Perosnal life should be none of their concern. And, to allow them to have that much power is evil.

 

I brought slavery into it ebcause at oen time it was elgal and helping slaves was illegal and led to hueg punishment. By yiour logic, helping slaves escape made it just that such punishment was doled out. That's ridicilous. Some rules/laws are evil and need to be stopped.

 

And, you ar eright. I would enver willingly join an army (though I would defend my country/friends/family) because I find the way the army masters treat the rank and file as barely above barbarism and nothing more dictatorship, and ruling with an iron fist with stupid rules that do nothing but hurt their charges not help. ie. don't ask don't tell'. A lot of good soldiers who made the army better than it otherwise be were ucnermeoniously thrown in the trash simply because they broke such an asanine rule. Evil. Plaina dn simple evil.

[Cantousent]

I'm no more saying that slavery was right because it was the law than I believe you are saying that we should have no laws because you believe slavery laws were wrong. I mean, I would rather discuss our actual arguments rather than what we pretend the other guy is saying.

[Calax]

The issue with the military anology is that technically, as part of the US Navy, you can be courtmartialed... for doing any sort of sex other than missionary.

 

That said, I got my inquisitor to Balmorra and I SWEAR she just changed her voice actress or just started acting differently in general. She's now very......... silky in how she talks rather than just sort of playful/matter-of-fact.

[Raithe]

Well, I started playing friday afternoon, a bit after 4pm. It's now hm, 0330 tuesday morning and it's just done a crash out on me, so I'm thinking of calling it done for the beta weekend rather then get back to it. After fairly intensively (in a probably unhealthy manner) playing the game over the last 4 days with minimal breaks - well, apart from about 6 hours saturday for a birthday party - I managed to get a Trooper up to 28th level. Started on Ord Mantell, then onto Coruscant where I picked up my ship, and that was the prologue done. Went on to Taris, Nar Shadaa, and was just getting into exploring Tattooine and the mix of world & class quests. I had no idea how much longer it would take to finish off Act 1 of my class-story. Did know I was going to be headed Alderaan way after Tattooine.

 

Technically there were a few other worlds I could have looked at, but then I'd end up way over-levelled when I went to the worlds with my class-stories. And you need to advance the class-story to get the different companions and possibly a few other things.

 

I can say I'm looking forward to when the game is released and I can take my time exploring, and poking around with some of the other classes to see what they're like - both in gameplay and story-wise.

 

Ah well. Urf. And now the family knows the beta test is over manana, so my break from various carer duties will be over.. It was fun to be able to geek out intensively for a few days with no real worries.