How can oen publisher invest in so many MMORPG's and expect to make a profit?

[LostStraw]

now what I personally don't understand is why free to play MMOs use the same design, when they should be mimicking TF2

Many of the items that one can purchase in free MMOs "expire" after a set time. There are also often lots of one use items such as stat reset scrolls or extra potent health potions for sale. In both cases the longer a customer plays the game the more items they will rent/use.

 

Essentially the expiring/one use item model ends up mimicking the monthly subscription model.

[sorophx]

Essentially the expiring/one use item model ends up mimicking the monthly subscription model.

how ironic

[LadyCrimson]

Ok, Diablo is a rogue/dungeon crawler and I did mention that MMOs held up rewards; or the reward-difficulty ratio it's off. Diablo does random drops, there it's a motivation that's more rational than grinding for 20 hours straights to farm that dungeon with the though monsters, and get that item with the low drop rate.

 

The one negative thing that everyone says about games it's that they are a waste of time and that's how I feel about most MMOs, after a certain point they are designed to waste your time.

I guess I see it as more a matter of a time difference. It's not that the reward system is different, it's just extended and extended so not as instantly gratifying in MMO's.

Diablo's still have all kinds of grinding if you wanted those certain specific unique or set items that rarely dropped, and/or only dropped from certain monsters...ala "Baal runs." Or try hunting for a legit zod rune to make certain runeword items. Good luck with that - I played D2 for 4 years and never had one drop. Maybe that last recent patch upped the odds a bit finally.

 

In WoW at least, it's not much different, except it's impossible to acquire top tier items without the large group mass runs, which means it may take many runs before the group decides you should get that item. Or something. I didn't do those group things, maybe it's a little different/that's just my impression from talking to people. The drops in WoW weren't as random as in Diablo, but there were semi-random drops. Certain dungeons/bosses dropped the same Unique, yes, and farming for skins off the same creature was always the same, but there was random drops.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a big fan of MMO's myself, but more because I'm not a social player, I like playing alone, and even if you can do so to a certain extent, they're not designed to be played alone.

[Hurlshort]

I've met folks that I converse with on a very regular basis while playing MMO's, in fact sometimes I just log in and chat with folks for a bit without even playing. I don't know how that would be considered a waste of time, at least no more than spending your time on a forum.

 

What some of you might be missing is that a solid percentage of MMO gamers don't necessarily seek out the best equipment in the game. In fact you have an entire player base that never reaches the end game content at all. People set personal goals all the time, and those can be very reasonable and attainable.

Edited June 14, 2011 by Hurlshot

[Orogun01]

Ok, Diablo is a rogue/dungeon crawler and I did mention that MMOs held up rewards; or the reward-difficulty ratio it's off. Diablo does random drops, there it's a motivation that's more rational than grinding for 20 hours straights to farm that dungeon with the though monsters, and get that item with the low drop rate.

 

The one negative thing that everyone says about games it's that they are a waste of time and that's how I feel about most MMOs, after a certain point they are designed to waste your time.

I guess I see it as more a matter of a time difference. It's not that the reward system is different, it's just extended and extended so not as instantly gratifying in MMO's.

Diablo's still have all kinds of grinding if you wanted those certain specific unique or set items that rarely dropped, and/or only dropped from certain monsters...ala "Baal runs." Or try hunting for a legit zod rune to make certain runeword items. Good luck with that - I played D2 for 4 years and never had one drop. Maybe that last recent patch upped the odds a bit finally.

 

Actually that was my point when I was saying that they "held off rewards" but i could not get it across apparently.

 

While we are on the subject, there is also the matter of peer pressure. Even if not intended, by having 2 completely different levels you are effectively cut off from that person.

[Monte Carlo]

I'd like to challenge the notion that games are a 'waste of time' and I'm certainly not slamming MMO players.

 

Anything that you genuinely enjoy can't really be a waste of time. The idea that everything you do should be in some way educational or enervating is bunk. Some of the nicest people I know are slacker - gamer types, most of whom can and do very well at whatever they put their minds to.

 

Personally I find the idea of paying a hundred pounds to watch a soccer match an oafish decision to make. That's a genuine waste of time IMO.

[sorophx]

Personally I find the idea of paying a hundred pounds to watch a soccer match an oafish decision to make. That's a genuine waste of time IMO.

true

[Humodour]

Anything that you genuinely enjoy can't really be a waste of time. The idea that everything you do should be in some way educational or enervating is bunk. Some of the nicest people I know are slacker - gamer types, most of whom can and do very well at whatever they put their minds to.

 

Personally I find the idea of paying a hundred pounds to watch a soccer match an oafish decision to make. That's a genuine waste of time IMO.

 

I couldn't agree with you more.

 

I've come to realise that if you don't spend time enjoying the simple things in life, then really, what's the point of living? As long as you've mainly sorted out a few things like "where's my life heading?" then something like gaming really what you SHOULD be what you're doing with your spare time.

 

As well as perhaps a good morning jog every now and then. And a good ****.

[LostStraw]

Steam has just added a Free to Play section to their store: http://store.steampowered.com/genre/Free%2...?snr=1_4_4__100

[Orogun01]

I'd like to challenge the notion that games are a 'waste of time' and I'm certainly not slamming MMO players.

 

Anything that you genuinely enjoy can't really be a waste of time. The idea that everything you do should be in some way educational or enervating is bunk. Some of the nicest people I know are slacker - gamer types, most of whom can and do very well at whatever they put their minds to.

 

Personally I find the idea of paying a hundred pounds to watch a soccer match an oafish decision to make. That's a genuine waste of time IMO.

I will say to you what one of my teachers told to me when he found out that my major was Game Art: "You know that video games are a waste of time, right? If you would put the 100 hours of gaming on a single painting what do you think you would get?"

Most forms of recreation don't take a portion of your life quite like games do, past a certain point entertainment becomes addiction and games are not a productive endeavor at all.

[Walsingham]

Games can be a sink, in that they aren't recreational after a point. I'm only just starting to appreciate this, and playing more fun games than games like Civilization, which just stress me out. nor do they educate or train much, besides some teamworking online. With the possible exception of X2, which - and I'm perfectly serious - made me appreciate the importance of good book-keeping.

[Masterfade]

To put things into proper perspective here's Forbe's list of top 10 money making MMOs in 2009 (2010 figure isn't available)

 

http://blogs.forbes.com/velocity/2010/06/1...-games-of-2009/

1. “World Of Warcraft” by Blizzard Entertainment (U.S.): $1 billion

2. “Fantasy Westward Journey” by NetEase (China): $400 million

3. “Perfect World” by Perfect World (China): $300 million

4. “Lineage I” and “II” by NCsoft (South Korea): $270 million

5. “Tian Long Ba Bu” by Changyou (China): $250 million

6. “Aion” by NCsoft (South Korea): $230 million

7. “MapleStory” by Nexon Corporation (South Korea): $200 million

8. “ZT Online” by Giant Interactive (China): $190 million

9. “The World Of Legend” / “Legends Of Mir” by Shanda Interactive Entertainment (China): $150 million

10. “Final Fantasy XI” by Square Enix (Japan): $117 million

 

So Western MMO companies other than Blizz are more or less irrelevant in the greater scheme of things. This of course may change with SWTOR, but I won't count on it.

 

Anyway in this particular case, Perfect World has been pretty careful with its acquisitions. Its investment in Runic and Cryptic makes a hell lot more sense to me than say Tencent's acquisition of Riot Games. Of the two, the Cryptic purchase is more dubious but 50 million dollars is hardly going to break a company the size of Perfect World (it's market capitalization is almost twice that of Take-Two) .

Edited June 15, 2011 by Masterfade

[Hurlshort]

That list speaks a lot more to the amazing success of Eastern MMO's than any real shortcomings among Western MMO studios. It also seems to point towards a free2play model being more successful in the long run, as many developers are making that adjustment.

[Calax]

[Monte Carlo]

That list speaks a lot more to the amazing success of Eastern MMO's than any real shortcomings among Western MMO studios. It also seems to point towards a free2play model being more successful in the long run, as many developers are making that adjustment.

 

It also alludes to the astonishing fact that there are a helluva lot of people in Asia.

[Gfted1]

That list speaks a lot more to the amazing success of Eastern MMO's than any real shortcomings among Western MMO studios. It also seems to point towards a free2play model being more successful in the long run, as many developers are making that adjustment.

 

 

The $3.1 Billion combined total of the 10 highest money making MMO points to Free2Play being more sucessful? What?

[Hurlshort]

That list speaks a lot more to the amazing success of Eastern MMO's than any real shortcomings among Western MMO studios. It also seems to point towards a free2play model being more successful in the long run, as many developers are making that adjustment.

 

 

The $3.1 Billion combined total of the 10 highest money making MMO points to Free2Play being more sucessful? What?

 

The article explains that most of those games use a free2play model. They make their revenue through selling stuff.

[Slowtrain]

That list speaks a lot more to the amazing success of Eastern MMO's than any real shortcomings among Western MMO studios. It also seems to point towards a free2play model being more successful in the long run, as many developers are making that adjustment.

 

 

I think it also shows than any western developer that wants to spend the development money to make a run at WOW's dominance is taking a pretty big risk.

[Hurlshort]

That list speaks a lot more to the amazing success of Eastern MMO's than any real shortcomings among Western MMO studios. It also seems to point towards a free2play model being more successful in the long run, as many developers are making that adjustment.

 

 

I think it also shows than any western developer that wants to spend the development money to make a run at WOW's dominance is taking a pretty big risk.

 

It's only a big risk if you expect WoW numbers. There are plenty of successful Western MMO studios not named Blizzard. I don't think you need to break $100 million in revenue to be successful.

[Slowtrain]

That list speaks a lot more to the amazing success of Eastern MMO's than any real shortcomings among Western MMO studios. It also seems to point towards a free2play model being more successful in the long run, as many developers are making that adjustment.

 

 

I think it also shows than any western developer that wants to spend the development money to make a run at WOW's dominance is taking a pretty big risk.

 

It's only a big risk if you expect WoW numbers. There are plenty of successful Western MMO studios not named Blizzard. I don't think you need to break $100 million in revenue to be successful.

 

 

Yep. I was thinking more though about trying to shoot for WOW type numbers, since that is probably every major publishers dream.

 

The fact that there isn't a single western developer on that list other than Blizzard is pretty telling. Unless people get bored of WOW, it's hard to see anyone else making a run at the big money.

[Hurlshort]

Apparently WoW has lost 600,000 subscribers over the last few months, and the game Rift is getting credit for quite a bit of that exodus. You can also usually tell what kind of numbers an MMO will have longer term after the initial 3-month release window, and Rift has maintained a fairly large player base despite being past that window.

 

But I doubt Rift planned on big numbers, so this is all just icing on the cake for them. I know quite a few MMO's look to hover around the 100k subscriber mark in order to stay in business.

 

SW:TOR is obviously gunning for big numbers, but it also has a ton of hype. So it will either be a big success or a big bomb!

[Orogun01]

The fact that there isn't a single western developer on that list other than Blizzard is pretty telling. Unless people get bored of WOW, it's hard to see anyone else making a run at the big money.

Or the lack could be due to the fact that MMO's are bigger on the Asian market and that free to play models haven't really caught up with publishers over here. On the publisher's side its always about money, I doubt that they will put their faith on something without a sure return.

[Calax]

If you look at the forbes article they continue past 10

12 Farmville

13 Runescape

14: Second Life

15: Club Penguin

16: Eve Online