Books

[Walsingham]

Now reading Off the Grid: Inside the Movement for More Space, Less Government, and True Independence in Modern America about people forming sulf sufficient communities with no outside electricity, utilities, government etc. It might be a better book if the author (Nick Rosen) was not such a self-rightous, pretentions, condescending, jerk.

 

I actually skimread a copy of that a while back. I know what you mean.

 

Is it not also massively outdated?

[Guard Dog]

Now reading Off the Grid: Inside the Movement for More Space, Less Government, and True Independence in Modern America about people forming sulf sufficient communities with no outside electricity, utilities, government etc. It might be a better book if the author (Nick Rosen) was not such a self-rightous, pretentions, condescending, jerk.

 

I actually skimread a copy of that a while back. I know what you mean.

 

Is it not also massively outdated?

It's not that old, just has very little substance. I imagine Rosen thought he was writing a latter day Walden (he even quoted Thoreau a few times) but it was a huge miss.

[Guard Dog]

Jumping back to Sci-Fi for the first time in a long while, now reading Joe Haldeman's Forever War.

[Raithe]

Stumbled on this clip about Clive Cussler's car collection

 

Now I'm tempted to dig out those books to read again...

[Guard Dog]

I'm just outlining an idea for a writing project and I would like opinions on the concept. The story is set in the summer of 1863 and begins in Vicksburg MS during the American Civil War, just after the battle of Gettsyburg. Vicksburg is the HQ of the Army of the Trans Misssissippi commanded by Gen Kirby Smith CSA. Understanding the implication of the loss at Gettysburg Smith is anticipating an order to begin a move north (a historical fact). However with Grant beginning to move down the Mississippi Smith feels compelled to "take in hand" the quasi-independent forces such as Quantrill's raiders and ascertain the truth about that "unfortunate business" on the Kansas-Missouri border. He orders a young cavalry second lieutenant (the protaganist) to travel to Missouri, find Quantrill and join his raiders and report on their movements and evaluate their potential effectiveness as a fighting force if Quantrill were to be removed. And if ordered to do so, assasinate Captain William Quantrill.

 

The protaganist, as yet unnamed, will be of Irish descent and educated at the Citidel in South Carolina. The story will follow some of the bloodiest events of the "western war" including the Lawence raid. It is a charachter study on Quantrill as much as anything because I've always found him to be an interesting and complex character. A little like Conrad's Mr. Kurtz, a leader whose refinied charisma conceals a very dark nature. The kind of man whom even good men will follow in doing despicable things.

 

These are just the ideas rolling around in my head. Any opinions or feedback are greatly appreciated.

Edited October 17, 2011 by Guard Dog

[Calax]

Only thing I could really think of is don't go making all the southerners upstanding young gentlmen who really don't like that whole "slavery" thing but don't like them thar yankee's tramplin on state rites!

 

That's kinda becoming a peeve of mine, making the protagonist always the man who lives by MODERN standards and MODERN morals rather than those found in his time, and getting offended by something extremely normal (like a knight going to bed with a 15 year old wench at a bar)

[Walsingham]

I'm no civil war expert. But I'm not convinced that a 19th century 'posh' army would sanction murdering officers who were inconvenient. They were very very keen on things being done by the book (for officers).

 

Also, it all sounds Apocalypse Now. You may be very distinct, and even better, but that's what people will say.

 

On the other hand, there's a big appetite for civil war material. So that's good.

 

~~

 

Purely as a creative stab, what if you shifted it to just before the war, or the opening stages? Target some fellah hunting runaway slaves. Obviously a 'baddie'. Turn it into a story about duty and so honour compelling good men to do bad things.

[Guard Dog]

Thank you Gents!

 

@Calax: You bring up an excellent point. It's easy to properly characterize actual historical characters in historical fiction because so much is known about them. It's even easier to mischaracterize the fictional characters, making them "men out of time" with modern values and reactions. It is what seperates good historical fiction and crap. Definitely something to watch for. I guess it's impossible to craft a Civil War story that does not touch on slavery in some way but I'd prefer to keep it to a minimum and focus just on the events of the Border War.

 

@Wals, it does ring a little close to Heart of Darkness/Apocalypse Now doesn't it? There is some historical backing however. After the Lawrence Massacre Quantrill and his raiders were becoming a real embarrasment to the Confederates. And a real liability since he was not responding to orders and was even raiding Confederate towns as far as Texas by war's end. He lost control of his own men before the end and fled east where he was captured in Kentucky. Some of his men would not make peace and fled to Mexico, others became outlaws, most notably the James Brothers and the Youngers.

 

Anyway, I'm still tweaking the concept and all of your feed back and ideas is most appreciated! If you guys think of anything else please do not hesitate.

[Raithe]

Heh, all this talk of the Civil war is tempting me to dig out the old JT Edson books. Now that was a man who could write a fun, pulpy western story.. and did do a fair amount of "good" background. He hammered the minutiae and loved being accurate on exactly how you cheat at cards, the workings of firearms, and the practical matters. Generally keeping it all interesting without turning into mini-lectures within his books. About the only serious ways he played with historical fact was when he included a few of the "ladies of the west" like Calamity Jane and the outlaw Belle Star as characters that turned up a few times - he made them a hellava lot more attractive then they really were.

 

They might have had moments of being a little right-wing in their views, and not overly complicated, but they were fun and generally had interesting characters.

 

by Jean Henry Mead

 

Of the hundreds of people I

[Walsingham]

If you've got a strong historical case for the plot then I'd say run with it. Parrallels with Apocalypse Now may turn people off but it will turn others on. I'd guess it'd be a crapshoot how those numbers balance out. I also don't know how many man hours it will take for you to do the book.

 

Keep us posted. Sounds fun.

[WDeranged]

I finally got around to reading Fight Club, it's not the easiest read as the writing style is awkward and disjointed which I assume is a reflection on the main character's issues, I'm loving every page so far though, it strikes me how well the movie captured the spirit of the book.

[Walsingham]

I finally got around to reading Fight Club, it's not the easiest read as the writing style is awkward and disjointed which I assume is a reflection on the main character's issues, I'm loving every page so far though, it strikes me how well the movie captured the spirit of the book.

 

Gotta love that movie.

[Calax]

Thank you Gents!

 

@Calax: You bring up an excellent point. It's easy to properly characterize actual historical characters in historical fiction because so much is known about them. It's even easier to mischaracterize the fictional characters, making them "men out of time" with modern values and reactions. It is what seperates good historical fiction and crap. Definitely something to watch for. I guess it's impossible to craft a Civil War story that does not touch on slavery in some way but I'd prefer to keep it to a minimum and focus just on the events of the Border War.

You don't have to make everyone land on either side of the slave issue, and could easily have a few guys who just view themselves as fighting for their nation, not for anything else. It's just that the Civil war stuff I've seen that's from a southern perspective, makes the southern soldiers into some sort of paragon of a gentleman that'll get himself killed for a fine southern belle. While the northern solders are treated sort of as standard army, just people who are doing a job.

[WDeranged]

I finally got around to reading Fight Club, it's not the easiest read as the writing style is awkward and disjointed which I assume is a reflection on the main character's issues, I'm loving every page so far though, it strikes me how well the movie captured the spirit of the book.

 

Gotta love that movie.

 

I'd go as far as to say it's my favourite film but I've seen it so often that it's become a bit meaningless now, the downside of collecting all the things you love I suppose

[Guard Dog]

Now reading We Are the Ship: The Story of Negro League Baseball by Kadir Nelson. If you like US History & Baseball it is definitely worth a look. Also reading Among Others by Jo Walton. I think you guys might like this one. It's a little sci-fi with a little modern fantasy. I just started it but it is very unusual. It sort of reminds me of Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell only not as cumbersome.

[Cantousent]

A War Like No Other about the Peloponnesian war. The author, Hanson, differentiates his book by breaking it down by categories rather than a chronological narrative. It's informative, and has some insights, but it's not particularly ground breaking. I've done some of my own translations of Thucydides, an extremely difficult author and the main source of information about the war. He definitely brings out some of the gritty details but Hanson uses a variety of sources, including people like Diodorus and Plutarch. Overall, I've enjoyed it greatly. It's a good break from the standard histories that delve into ever increasing minutia, but it's still very much a general ed text. It doesn't go into sufficient detail to make it required reading for post-graduate work, but it does give a lot of breadth on a variety of topics to make it good reading for college majors.

[Malcador]

Am thinking of reading Iggulden's Caesar books, seem like decent pulp history. That and Day of the Jackal. Anyone here read either ?

[Cantousent]

Am thinking of reading Iggulden's Caesar books, seem like decent pulp history. That and Day of the Jackal. Anyone here read either ?

I haven't read those, but now that I've seen they exist, I'm likely to check them out. Lately, I've been more or less been on a real historical or 'tea party' bent. In general, I agree with 'tea party' principles, but I'm not sure if I've bought into the movement as something larger than a political movement yet. Still, my background is in ancient history and I'd like to get out of American early Republican or late colonial works and back into Roman or Greek history.

[Rosbjerg]

A War Like No Other about the Peloponnesian war.

 

sounds interesting, I'll check that out..

 

I'm rereading "World War Z" I really do enjoy contra-factual/what if scenarios, especially with zombies.

[Oerwinde]

Started reading Tad Williams Memory Sorrow and Thorn series, onto the Stone of Farewell now. Its a tough read, I absolutely hated Simon for the first 2/3rds of Dragonbone Chair and was just hoping he'd die so the book could focus on the more interesting character of... oh everyone else in the book. Was pleasantly surprised to see the character actually grow though, and I hate him less now, and he's no longer alone so often so he has all the quality supporting characters to prop him up.

 

I will say though, that I have never skipped over so much unnecessary description. And I've read almost every Wheel of Time book.

[MechanicalLemon]

Rereading Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson. Great book. I have to say that the book makes a lot more sense the second time around.

[Calax]

Rereading Gardens of the Moon by Steven Erikson. Great book. I have to say that the book makes a lot more sense the second time around.

Takes forever to get going IIRC.

[Guard Dog]

Now reading "The Savior" by Eugene Drucker about a german musician hired to entertain troops at a labor camp in WWII and has a crisis of conciense when he sees how the jewish prisioners are treated. You can pretty well guess where the plot is going but at least the cliche is delivered gracefully.

 

BTW, how is Gardens of the Moon ? I bought it off the sale rack a while back but have never read it. I have a hard time getting into fantasy unless Tolkien or Martin wrote it.

[Hurlshort]

Am thinking of reading Iggulden's Caesar books, seem like decent pulp history. That and Day of the Jackal. Anyone here read either ?

 

I read Iggulden's Ghengis Khan series, and I thought they were really well done.

[MechanicalLemon]

BTW, how is Gardens of the Moon ? I bought it off the sale rack a while back but have never read it. I have a hard time getting into fantasy unless Tolkien or Martin wrote it.

 

Malazan is a tricky series in that people inevitably love or hate it. Erikson doesn't tell his story in a straightforward, chronological way. For frame of reference:

 

 

Combined with a huge cast of characters and a shockingly in-depth world...it can get confusing. I remember having a lot of trouble in the first few books. It gets easier once you become familiar with the world and its terminology.

 

It's similar to GRRM's ASoIaF in that it nails a dark, gritty atmosphere but whereas Martin has a more low-fantasy world, Malazan is full of magic and gods who like to intervene (resurrection, making pawns, etc). Also, Malazan has a lot of characters but at the expense of depth, unfortunately. You probably won't find well-written characters on the level of ASoIaF. So if you prefer fantasy that doesn't rely on magic, stay away from these books.

 

The closest parallel I can think of is Glen Cook's The Black Company. Chances are if you enjoy that, you'll like Malazan.