FO: NV (General Discussion)

[WorstUsernameEver]

I don't know where the quest is set, but I've just started my 4th Energy Weapons-NCR playthrough with it.

 

Camp McCarran, the warehouse is on the road to the south, can't miss it. You have to wait for NCR Veterans and Heavy Troopers to appear though.

 

EDIT: More Dead Money reviews!

 

SFX 360, 3.5/5.

We Got This Covered, 6/10.

Crazy Gamers, 8/10.

Edited December 26, 2010 by WorstUsernameEver

[Lexx]

Ohi Lexx, tried your quest mod. A couple of things:

 

- Dialogue is badly in need of editing. There's recurring typos (Camp McCarrEn) and it feels noticeably more stilted than in the main game. The story setup itself is fairly well-done though. Also, the formatting is different from the main game here and there. [COMBAT] instead of <Attack> for example.

 

- It's.. buggy? I'm not sure what the hell happened but when I went into the warehouse the second time to talk to Ranger Tap-Trap the Fiends attacked me immediately after we talked, and I had just convinced him to release the hostage.

 

- Good job with the NCR uniform/Fiends armor mix on Tap-trap.

 

Overall it's a good mod, design-wise it feels similar to the other quests of the game which I feel is a big achievement.

 

Thanks for your feedback.

 

If it's written Camp McCarren (with e) right now, then it's proofreaders fault, as I've always wrote it McCarran. Will fix it this evening. What do you mean with noticeably more stilted? The way it's written / how the people talk about it? Will change the [COMBAT] thing as well. Didn't remember that <Attack> was used in the main game. (If you found some more wrong written words, etc., maybe you can write me a ninja-pm about it? Then I can fix this as well.)

 

About your bug, I don't know what could have caused it. But what I know is that the engine is pretty not-bug-proof. Various things are working first and on the next try, everything went down the ****ter. I needed to add lots of fail-save mechanics to prevent various things to happen. It's really a pain in the arse and once again makes Fallout 2 modding much easier than FNV (if something works there once, it will work the next time too). Often problems in FNV are fixed with reloading to a older savegame though... but who wants to do that.

 

 

Right now, I am working on my second small quest. Most stuff for it is already done, just writing the dialogues is left to do (and some model fixing, as I use a custom house interior). I've also started working on my third (and last?) quest mod, which will feature it's own worldspace. Hope that everything will work out how I intended it tho'...

Edited December 26, 2010 by Lexx

[WorstUsernameEver]

Thanks for your feedback.

 

If it's written Camp McCarren (with e) right now, then it's proofreaders fault, as I've always wrote it McCarran. Will fix it this evening. What do you mean with noticeably more stilted? The way it's written / how the people talk about it? Will change the [COMBAT] thing as well. Didn't remember that <Attack> was used in the main game. (If you found some more wrong written words, etc., maybe you can write me a ninja-pm about it? Then I can fix this as well.)

 

It's difficult to explain but I think the dialogue is a little bit less natural than in the main game.

 

About your bug, I don't know what could have caused it. But what I know is that the engine is pretty not-bug-proof. Various things are working first and on the next try, everything went down the ****ter. I needed to add lots of fail-save mechanics to prevent various things to happen. It's really a pain in the arse and once again makes Fallout 2 modding much easier than FNV (if something works there once, it will work the next time too). Often problems in FNV are fixed with reloading to a older savegame though... but who wants to do that.

 

I'm really not sure myself. Basically it went like this: both the NCR troopers and Veronica had been attacking "something" outside of the Warehouse, I ignored it and entered, went to Tap-trap and talked to him (I think I noticed some Fiends stirred up inside but they didn't look hostile to me so I ignored them) then immediately after I talked to him and convinced him to let the hostage go... I couldn't even "talk" to the hostage because they all attacked me and he was trying to escape. Reloading to the save before I entered the warehouse worked, weirdly enough.

 

Also, the quest states look a little buggy too, though I dunno if they're intended to work like that. My main objective remained "Investigate the warehouse and talk to Ranger Tap-Trap" throughout all the quest.

 

Right now, I am working on my second small quest. Most stuff for it is already done, just writing the dialogues is left to do (and some model fixing, as I use a custom house interior). I've also started working on my third (and last?) quest mod, which will feature it's own worldspace. Hope that everything will work out how I intended it tho'...

 

Interesting. Are you planning to release a Quest pack or something like that? In all honesty, I've never been that interested in quest mods myself, but I guess I can give them a try if you keep the quality level consistent and they're short/non intrusive like this one.

[Lexx]

The "Investigate the warehouse and talk to Ranger Tap-Trap" objective should close after you talked to Tap-Trap. Maybe I've forgot to set it complete on first dialog node. Will add it as well.

 

It's difficult to explain but I think the dialogue is a little bit less natural than in the main game.

 

Maybe it is because I never worked with the dialogue editor before this quest. The dialogue nodes are set up in a really wired way. Obsidians new dialog editor tool makes things a lot easier, but it's still a bit incommodious. Hard for me to explain, but if you never created dialogues like this before, you have to re-learn a lot.. also you have to kind of restructure your dialogues. Let's say it like this: I can totally understand why the dialog trees in the game are how they are (with lots of "tell me about x" options).

 

I am indeed planning to release a quest pack with all my released quest mods, but it can still take some time, as even the second quest will still need some weeks of work (maybe I will release it in late january). The size of the quests will be small as well and nothing "epic" .. hope the quality will stay up then.

 

By the way, I am happy that you think the quest is good in quality, etc. because I feel like this is not the strongest one I've wrote so far. My Fallout 2 mod (which is not dead and still work in progress) features some better and bigger ones, I'd say.

 

I just hate it, that my english skills suck. If I could write the dialog text totally by myself and wouldn't need one, two or three proofreaders, everything would be so much easier...

Edited December 26, 2010 by Lexx

[Tigranes]

I think a quest pack, or even making your quests slowly build up a larger narrative or link with each other, is a good idea to popularise the mod - even though I love quest mods sometimes I think, if it's a 30 minute quest should I even bother installing it?

 

Given the fact that FNV is still addictive it'll probably only take me a couple of days to get to the area. Still finding some new things in the 4th playthrough - it's the first time that I actually saw the two Sarsaparilla Caps people fighting each other

outside Nipton

, so I intervened and shot the guy, and got to talk to the girl.

[Lexx]

In my optionion, FNV is great for mods that add mini-quests, as the game itself features lots of locations that could still get some attention quest-wise. Examples: The NCR camp outside of Primm, the Aerotech Office Park or the Legion warcamp. There are so much possibilities for adding new and fallouty quests. I personally have lots of ideas for quests in various locations and even if I don't have a quest idea, it's pretty easy to come up with something if you just look at your target location and wander around a bit in there.

 

(edit: The New Vegas sewers would be a cool place for new mini-quests as well. It's kind of a own town under the city after all.. right out of the box I can think of at least 3 simple quests for that.)

 

 

Also I've updated my mini-quest to version 1.1, fixed some words and adjusted stuff in the objective list. If someone finds more spelling stuff that feels off or knows how to write a sentence in a better way... I am open for everything.

Edited December 26, 2010 by Lexx

[Starwars]

Sounds like fun Lexx, might give that a go on my next playthrough!

 

Yeah, I think the biggest problems about adding quests to a game such as this is really just keeping the tone of the game and making it feel like it fits into the world. Many quest add-ons for Oblivion or F3 just feels like they're... really out there. Lack of voiceacting and stuff like that doesn't bother me, just purely design and tone-wise. The description of this looks rather promising I think.

 

 

Anyways, my current playthrough is NCR, going with Cass and ED-E. Might actually be my most enjoyable playthrough yet, for reasons I'm not quite sure about. I haven't hit the level cap with any of my other characters but I think this one might, or get close to it. The companions definitely seem a bit more useful now since the patch (aside from the ones that were already really powerful), and the balancing of some of the guns have worked out well.

Also, got This Machine for the first time. Really love using it.

[Tigranes]

Level 13 and doing the Searchlight area before going up through Boulder City into the Strip area. The ghoul-infested old nuclear site nearby is a real reloadfest, even with Raul - in the end I sat down and threw in Buffout, MedX, Psycho, Rebound and Turbo like a druggie before throwing down a few tons of incinerator fuel. I still can't quite figure out what types of ammo are effective against ghouls, except for power fists and the like.

 

Searchlight and Nipton are probably the most 'atmospheric' areas in FNV...

[Lexx]

I don't really like Searchlight. It's big, wide and open, but nothing really to see. Also the color tone change for "radiation" is annoying to me.

[WorstUsernameEver]

I don't really like Searchlight. It's big, wide and open, but nothing really to see. Also the color tone change for "radiation" is annoying to me.

 

This is a recurrent problem in NV. It doesn't bother me much since I found the sandbox gameplay incredibly boring, but it certainly alienated a part of the fanbase.

[Starwars]

Huh, I really liked Searchlight. One of few places where I enjoyed the whole "filter" use, think it was appropiately creepy to go through there.

 

I still hold some of the Vault to be the most atmospheric though. Vault 11 and Vault 22 in particular were *very* well-made I think.

[Enoch]

The atmosphere in Searchlight was fun, and the NCR ghouls made for good opponents, but the payoff was disappointing. I was hoping for more when I finally got into that firehouse. No interesting story reveals about the town's history or how the Legion messed it up, and the one bit of good loot (the unique fire axe) is too easy to miss and not particularly useful for non-melee characters.

[Tigranes]

Well, I certainly never saw that fire axe.

 

I thought you find out plenty of what happens when you piece it together, without need for a big reveal - thought that was the point, you pick up little hints about NCR guys being worried about weird happenings and diverted supplies, other NCR guys have no idea, then you realise it was a Legion infiltration mission that ends with a big boom (and you see the dead guys with their orders).

[Enoch]

Well, I certainly never saw that fire axe.

 

I thought you find out plenty of what happens when you piece it together, without need for a big reveal - thought that was the point, you pick up little hints about NCR guys being worried about weird happenings and diverted supplies, other NCR guys have no idea, then you realise it was a Legion infiltration mission that ends with a big boom (and you see the dead guys with their orders).

Huh. I could've sworn that the first guy you talk to outside of town tells you that Legion infiltration was to blame right off the bat. Or maybe I just surmised that. Either way, finding the actual orders didn't feel like much of a revelation to me.

[entrerix]

that fireaxe in searchlight is both hard to find and very very effective in melee, a fitting reward i thought.

 

I agree it shouldnt have been so hidden, I almost missed it and I knew it was in the firehouse somewhere.

 

Also: general comment, I really really hope we get an expansion pack this summer. would be awesome

[Wrath of Dagon]

I never found the glowing ghoul with the dog tag.

[Tigranes]

Searchlight is very easy to get lost in for me, esp. because of the pressure of radiation - if you don't have the Radical perk you have to burn through at least two dozen radaways.

 

The ifrst playthrough I found neither Logan's gang nor the ghoul trooper, and got nothing out of the place.

 

Yeah you know about legion doing it somehow right off the bat, but I felt the kind of 'salvage work' you do was quite well done - it really has a nice original Fallout vibe, similar to the Vaults, without being overdone. I like the fact that in some places in FNV, you don't end up getting the whole story neat & tidy with a big revelation.

[LadyCrimson]

I liked Searchlight the first time I did it, because it's one of those few places that felt dangerous (at least at lower levels) because of the radiation+enemies. I also loved the

"I'll take care of those radscorpions for you" surprise moment.

 

 

But on subsequent playthroughs it's not as fun and starts to feel tedious. Walk around, press radaway hotkey every few minutes. Plus the undroppable looted items one of those npc's has (that I'm careful to not pick up, now). I try to rush through it as fast as possible these days...don't remember having any trouble finding the axe, tho. What I did have trouble was finding all the parts they guys wanted in the one room filled with desks/computers. Confuzzled me for a bit.

[Gorgon]

Who had that quest anyway, I was never able to unload all that radio junk.

[LadyCrimson]

The parts have no other quest for them...they're just the parts that you find for him during the quest. I think it's just a bug that you can loot some of them after.

[Dark_Raven]

The whole game is a bug. When are you going to get this fixed?

[Tagaziel]

Can someone from the team finally clear up this little problem:

 

Is the Great Divide the Grand Canyon? All available evidence suggests that, but the Wiki boogeymen will apparently not agree with that unless someone from Obsidian comes out and says "Yes, it is."

[Malcador]

The whole game is a bug. When are you going to get this fixed?

 

It's funny because I get bug reports a lot like this.

[Lexx]

If the Great Divide is what I think it is, then it has to be some big part in arizona, not only the grand canyon. Kind of the mid-western that is plagued by the big radiated cyclons. Wasn't Fallout: Tactics talking about it? (not with the name "Great Divide" of course)

Edited December 31, 2010 by Lexx

[Tigranes]

Lexx, I've played Warehouse War House. I like it, but it definitely is pretty rough at the moment. It's feedback bonanza time!

 

Writing:

Generally good, I think currently it's let down by a mix of grammatical errors and awkward writing - if those are cleaned up it would fit in very well with the rest of FNV. I've given you detailed comments on this below.

 

As for the story, again, I think the core idea about what happened to Tap-Trap & his old buddy coming to put him down is good, but I don't think it was utilised enough in the quest as the player experiences it. 1) T-T's anger about Felix is really only expressed in one line (it's his fault i was kicked out) or so - because he's presented as wacky instead of bitter it doesn't really come through that much; 2) Once you kill Felix for T-T there's no regret or introspection or anything, just 'kthxbye', and finally 3) I suppose it was intentional that there's no option to try and persuade T-T to give up the Fiend life? No problem with making that not possible, but would be nice if the player got to try it.

 

Combat:

I saw that you can't take the quest until late game so was pleasantly surprised by how difficult it can be to put down a dozen fiends in a very smal space, if you have to watch out for allies as well. However, I don't think FNV is very good for having such a messy chaotic sort of battle; 1) on not-so-good comps the heavy concentration of people, corpses, etc means lag; 2) in a very cluttered and tight space I encountered lots of collision problems with fiends disappearing into thin air, or into the wall, etc - the engine's weaknesses are maximised here; 3) the script seems to only have the NCR troops enter the fiend building, not follow the player or go for T-T. I had to reload 4 times to get this to work because the debris directly in front of the door would contribute to collision problems, the NCR troops might start going in and out of the door, or they might not react at all and just stand there in the warehouse while I fight the fiends.

 

I think if you kept the same setup, but made the warehouse twice as big (still in corridor format), and then had the NCR guys follow you (like how the vanilla game usually does it) you'd have more success. Perhaps you wanted to design a more messy chaotic battle, but especially indoors I think the engine/game isn't so good at it.

 

Level Design:

apart from making it larger for combat, as above, I thought it was nice to look at. Good cluttered lived-in feel and good use of existing assets. The corpse on the mattress on the wall when you enter looks a little odd though. No complaints here.

 

Bugs:

I tried both sides (kill T-T or Felix) and found a few bugs. Apart from how the big fight can get buggy due to collision, I also had;

• When you persuade felix to leave, you can use Terrifying Presence successfully even if you don't have the perk.
  
• When you start fighting Felix outside, some Fiends rushed out of the warehouse to attack both me and the NCR.
  
• As aforementioned, T-T & Fiends can sometimes just fight me and ignore the NCR, while the NCR also ignores them.
  

 

Dialogue Fixes:

General Comments:

-I'd say make more use of contractions - it's the wasteland and it's the fiends but everyone sounds a bit bookish sometimes. "I cannot sell you the drugs" to the doorguard (Barter option) in particular is very silly.

 

Initial felix dialogue:

-First line: "military NCR" -> "NCR military"

-Felix introduces himself: "I've heard" -> "I heard", "I responded with troops" -> "I gathered up some troops", "I've tracked" -> "tracked"

-Describes fiends: "A few fully pumped" -> "Some fully pumped" (it would sound odd if someone was saying a few fully pumped out loud)

-On T-T: "to abuse drugs" -> "load up on drugs" (the bookish thing)

-On killing T-T: "it is a sad move" -> change to something else, 'sad move' sound weird; "he became" -> "he's become", "last months" -> "last few months"

 

Doorman dialogue:

-[Combat] you will DIE!:" -> "YOU will die!"

-[barter] I cannot sell you the drugs" -> "I can't..."

 

Tap-Trap dialogue:

-Felix, I assume?: "Lee has send out" -> "Lee's sending out"

-On NCR troops: "It went down quick" -> "They went down quick"

-On avenging his family: "i've done the most obvious" -> "So I did the most obvious"

-[speech] You still didn't told me -> "...tell..."

 

Oxford:

-Couple of times "didn't you" is used, should be "did you"

 

Felix again

-Where's Hanning? "I've send him to the doctor" -> sent

-"As you might have heard already, heavy infantery..." typo

 

Take or not take the feedback as you will, personal opinion obviously. Anyway, it was quite fun nevertheless, good job Lexx and hope you make more.