Piracy

[Volourn]

"Saying DRM is caused by Piracy is like saying the War in Iraq was caused by WMDs (sorry for the politics, but similar idealogy). I the end, were there any WMD's even found in Iraq? Sure, many supported the idea of the War (DRM) because of misconceptions of WMDs (that the DRM would even stop piracy) but when you got to the heart of the matter, there weren't any WMDs there (aka...pirates weren't stopped by the DRM overall)."

 

Poor analogy since we know for a fact that piracy exists. It's inarguable to claim it doesn't.

 

btw, Iraq did have WMD. They admitted. The issue is by the time the war ended the WMD which iraq admitted to willingly just mysteriously vanished. On top of that, the Iraq War was about more than WMD. Bush himself gave MULTIPLE reasons why the war was waged not just one. Talk about delusional misconception. That said, the war was mishandled hence the garbage time afterwards.

 

Further still, it's totally irrlevant to the pricy disucssion whether or not agrees with the WMD thing becuase we know for a FACT that piracy exists. Period. And, we know it is the reason why DRM exists.

[Hassat Hunter]

Yeah, we know pirates exists. Especially around Somalia.

 

But do you think the solution would be to put landmines over all the oceans to hit them? Or would that hit more innocent people instead?

 

[/analogy]

[sorophx]

btw, Iraq did have WMD. They admitted.

"they" who? the Iraqi people? or Saddam's generals? so if they admitted to having had those weapons, it automatically means they had them? ok, I killed JFK, I admit. come over, America, and arrest me.

[Nepenthe]

I'm utterly baffled by your insistence that selling a game second hand is bad. What about selling my car second hand?

I'd expect you to be able to make the connection as an intelligent person, Walsh. "Oh, the 2nd hand sellers are the real criminals, so I'm actually doing a good thing by downloading the game myself".

The art of good business is being a good middleman. Money doesn't go from consumer to game publisher before other actors get in on the action and in doing so contribute to overall economic activity. On a related matter, one would have to show that these middlemen, such as used game sellers, negatively affect the quality and budget of games before comming out against them. Assumptions aren't useful here.

You're quoting me but I can't make a connection between what I wrote and what you did.

[Hurlshort]

I agree with Maria that the second hand sales discussion is irrelevant to the piracy discussion, and I believe the WMD one is insane.

[Gorgon]

I'm utterly baffled by your insistence that selling a game second hand is bad. What about selling my car second hand?

I'd expect you to be able to make the connection as an intelligent person, Walsh. "Oh, the 2nd hand sellers are the real criminals, so I'm actually doing a good thing by downloading the game myself".

The art of good business is being a good middleman. Money doesn't go from consumer to game publisher before other actors get in on the action and in doing so contribute to overall economic activity. On a related matter, one would have to show that these middlemen, such as used game sellers, negatively affect the quality and budget of games before comming out against them. Assumptions aren't useful here.

You're quoting me but I can't make a connection between what I wrote and what you did.

My mind sortof wandered off to what other people had been arguing.

[Maria Caliban]

As much as I dislike Secure-Rom, I don't think it's as bad as a landmine.

 

The majority people who play games don't experience problems with the DRM. Those who do are most likely to have issues with the function of the game. On rare occasions, DRM can lead to serious issues with your computer. None of those really compare to losing a limb or one's life.

[Gfted1]

I think we should put landmines all over the Somali ocean.

[Tale]

Note to self: Invest in landmines.

And boat repair companies.

[Malcador]

I always wanted to see mercenary tourism in Somalia.

[Hassat Hunter]

As much as I dislike Secure-Rom, I don't think it's as bad as a landmine.

Think of it more like those "always online" DRM systems. Loose your sonar/internet activity... you're screwed!

On rare occasions, DRM can lead to serious issues with your computer. None of those really compare to losing a limb or one's life.

Great analogy. I completely fail to see how that's related. Or is that your standard reply?

 

"My X-box died"? Microsoft/Maria: Hey, shrug it off. It's not like YOU died.

"I got ripped off today at the store. 2 euro too much on the bill!" Maria: Well. Forget about it. It's peanuts. You could have died.

"I got raped!" Maria: Hey girl, get away with your minor issues. Someone could have died.

 

See how there too it's completely non-consequential... or actually supremely hurtful?

[Hassat Hunter]

(Can't edit my post since I cannot even see it)

 

Or how about now in Russia?

"Hey, don't complain about corruption or fraud... No one died!"

 

It's like the 'people are starving in Africa' response if you talk about... *anything*. Completely unrelated, and a terrible way of trying to say 'shut up about everything, be a slave. Be happy about everything. If you're depressed (you know, like me) not even that, because hey, you're alive. Even if you feel like life sucks. I don't... and since I don't and I think dying is worst unless you do you cannot complain about anything'

[/rant]

 

Just tickles me off...

[Walsingham]

I spit furious lightning over DRM. But landmines DRM isn't. Workhouses, window tax, the circus maximus. Something like that. But landmines or WMD it certainly isn't.

[Hurlshort]

Did you just try and connect rape to DRM?

 

Seriously, Maria is correct, these are video games. Lighten up and stop trying to compare them to serious things.

[Oner]

Did you just try and connect rape to DRM?

 

Seriously, Maria is correct, these are video games. Lighten up and stop trying to compare them to serious things.

Didn't we establish video game piracy is costing people their daily bread?

Also, says the guy who finds it "repugnant".

[Hassat Hunter]

Was just making fun of Volourn with "pirates exists"...

 

No, I tried to connect putting dispreportiate responses ("Don't complain about [X]. No one died! You can only complain if someone dies") to arguments to being a bad idea.

And since apparantly something is only bad and worthy of complain if you are dying or loosing parts of your body Maria implies, yes, you cannot complain about being raped.

Personally I would say that is something VERY complain-worthy.

[Malcador]

Did you just try and connect rape to DRM?

 

Nope he didn't, more of a rejection of a "well it could be worse" I guess. How did DRM messing with your playing get compared to losing a limb anyway. Although, some company losing theoretical sums of money due to piracy isn't that bad, when you think of it that way.

 

Also, this is a rather amusing DRM - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-12-...s-sam-3-pirates

Edited December 8, 2011 by Malcador

[Hassat Hunter]

Haha, that's pretty awesome.

(And yes, you're right)

 

[OT] Though I see regenerating health there... in Serious Sam? Oh noes! [/OT]

[sorophx]

Also, this is a rather amusing DRM - http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2011-12-...s-sam-3-pirates

I wonder if somebody's been able to beat the game with that thing on his tail

[Hurlshort]

Did you just try and connect rape to DRM?

 

Seriously, Maria is correct, these are video games. Lighten up and stop trying to compare them to serious things.

Didn't we establish video game piracy is costing people their daily bread?

Also, says the guy who finds it "repugnant".

 

Hey, I downgraded that to morally unripened!

 

But I take piracy a lot more serious than I do DRM. DRM can be a pain, it can even on rare occasions cause a serious computer problem, but it still isn't a crime. Piracy is.

[sorophx]

"crime" is a very broad and subjective term in today's realities. it's against the law in some (most?) countries, yet same countries have laws that don't make any sense/are criminal

[Hurlshort]

"crime" is a very broad and subjective term in today's realities. it's against the law in some (most?) countries, yet same countries have laws that don't make any sense/are criminal

 

But piracy is not subjective at all. You are taking property without permission. The people who have worked to create what you are taking are unhappy about that. There isn't any moral 'grey area' here.

[Maria Caliban]

As much as I dislike Secure-Rom, I don't think it's as bad as a landmine.

Think of it more like those "always online" DRM systems. Loose your sonar/internet activity... you're screwed!

 

Great analogy. I completely fail to see how that's related. Or is that your standard reply?

 

 

"My X-box died"? Microsoft/Maria: Hey, shrug it off. It's not like YOU died.

"I got ripped off today at the store. 2 euro too much on the bill!" Maria: Well. Forget about it. It's peanuts. You could have died.

"I got raped!" Maria: Hey girl, get away with your minor issues. Someone could have died.

 

See how there too it's completely non-consequential... or actually supremely hurtful?

 

"Did you say my analogy is poorly thought out?! I'm going to imply that you don't care about rape victims!"

 

Next up: How is DRM like lynching people and/or cannibalism.

 

But I take piracy a lot more serious than I do DRM. DRM can be a pain, it can even on rare occasions cause a serious computer problem, but it still isn't a crime. Piracy is.

It's not a crime because consumers and consumer advocacy groups lack the political pull of game, music, and movie publishers.

 

This is very clear when you look at the legal status of an e-product when a customer has a grievance vs when a company has a grievance. If I buy an ebook via Kindle and later Amazon decides to pull it or stops supporting the Kindle, I have no legal claim to the e-book and Amazon isn't obliged to give me the same in a, non-proprietary, HTML format. That e-book I bought is considered a service that Amazon can stop providing me in the future.

 

If I pirate the e-book, it's no longer treated as a service but as a product I've stolen or an intellectual property I've violated.

 

It's the same with reverse engineering. Copyright law shouldn't be overturned by contracts that must be signed to use a product.

Edited December 8, 2011 by Maria Caliban

[Enoch]

But I take piracy a lot more serious than I do DRM. DRM can be a pain, it can even on rare occasions cause a serious computer problem, but it still isn't a crime. Piracy is.

It's not a crime because consumers and consumer advocacy groups lack the political pull of game, music, and movie publishers.

If you're going down that road, there is no end of officially-illegal activity that you can justify as morally permissible.

 

"Child molestation is only illegal because NAMBLA lacks the political pull of the local PTA!"

[Oblarg]

I'd still say I see nothing morally wrong with responsible piracy of certain media (music, namely).

 

In the past year, I've bought 6 albums and 3 band shirts, and gone to 4 concerts, all from bands I'd have no clue existed without piracy. Make of that what you will, but I don't think anyone will ever convince me that I'm hurting the market with my practices.