FO: NV (General Discussion)

[Tale]

I like to holster because it feels odd treking the area with my gun pointing at people. It's just proper gun safety!

 

I now feel like complaining that the controls aren't different enough from the console. I have to hold down a button for a completely different function? But that's getting old hat.

[LadyCrimson]

I'm definitely not used to buttons doing double or triple duty ala consoles, hence why it never occurred to me to hold certain buttons down longer in order to get a different function. I also had no idea how to hotkey weapons/items until I asked and spent quite some early time hitting TAB mid-combat to switch weapons.

 

I have no issue with pdf's, but I don't see why a direct download game can't have at least a txt. file included/placed in the games main folder, with just a list of all the keyboard functions on it. I don't care about any story/monster side info or pictures...but the in-game menu doesn't have half this stuff listed, so I had no clue.

[LadyCrimson]

Dear Boone:I love your quest and helping you come to terms with your emotional issues, but I wish that doing so didn't make your paper-doll quality go away. (which is why I put it off for as long as possible now).

edit...there must be a way to change that via the editor...time to hunt.

Edited November 29, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[Cantousent]

LC... :Cant's shaking his head with a bemused smile icon:

 

Has anyone else noticed how many similarities there are between New Vegas and Stephen King's The Stand? The Legion is like Flagg's crew, complete with brutal crucifixions for offenses such as drug abuse. Hell, I think one of the freeways has the same Yeates' quote found in The Stand. I only noticed all this because I just started reading the book recently. I think a lot of the similarities are striking, but I recognize it could just be that I'm reading the book soon after I bought the game.

[LadyCrimson]

Yes, I've noticed some Stand-like aspects to the game...although similar to you, I'm not sure if it's really the Stand so much as a general post-apocalyptic iconic lore that is now familiar to me from years of such. I probably think of the Stand because it's a book I've read a dozen times. heh

 

LC... :Cant's shaking his head with a bemused smile icon:

I know...it's become ridiculous even for me. It's only the 2nd time this has happened. And while I liked Atton way back when, this is on a whole 'nother scale because the gameplay allows for so much more freedom w/companions. I hoped taking on other companions would make it go away but not yet...

[Rosbjerg]

LC... :Cant's shaking his head with a bemused smile icon:

 

Has anyone else noticed how many similarities there are between New Vegas and Stephen King's The Stand? The Legion is like Flagg's crew, complete with brutal crucifixions for offenses such as drug abuse. Hell, I think one of the freeways has the same Yeates' quote found in The Stand. I only noticed all this because I just started reading the book recently. I think a lot of the similarities are striking, but I recognize it could just be that I'm reading the book soon after I bought the game.

 

Yeah definitely - there are also some 1984, A brave new world and various other famous dystopian books/novels references.. I think it's because the Fallout setting is basically a big canvas for social commentary, which means that some of the more universal points will be shared.

 

But I agree - minus the central and very important religious theme of "The Stand".

[LadyCrimson]

Even small things like the crows make me think of The Stand/other references. Some of the graffiti-ed up road signs/rocks too. I love those, sprinkled throughout the game.

[Tale]

Yes another reason the game should have had a blind old lady.

[TheHarlequin]

Is it me... or does it seem the mods for NV are coming out at a much slower pace then FO3? I found a ton of cool mods for FO3 but seems many of those kind of mods still have not been made for NV. Has the FO3 mod community dissolved for the most part thus nothing grand for NV? Or am I just imagining this? LOL

[LadyCrimson]

I dunno...how fast is fast for FO3? It's barely been over a month for NV, many are still playing the game, even if for the 2nd or 3rd time. I assume you mean new areas/quests type mods, vs. the usual common easy-to-do-stuff.

 

I get the impression that making a serious mod that adds content is a large undertaking to get it to work right and most don't do it. Plus, there's been some question where I think people are a bit nervous that they'll plop mods into areas that will end up being used/taken over/conflict in the DLC. Or something.

Edited November 29, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[Starwars]

It's also likely that parts of the modders will be split over F3 and NV, seeing as how it's pretty likely that the games share a large part of their audience.

Oblivion seems to have both games beat though. While F3 has many many mods, Oblivion seemed to be the king of custom content.

[Tigranes]

I'm back home and my second playthrough is now getting into the mid-late game. Again I'm beginning to notice how some bits of NV's dialogue, like so many in the last few years, feel 'truncated'; pass one speech check and they OK everything you suggest, etc. It's likely voice acting amongst other things, and it's been bugging me for a while now in most recent games.

 

I guess the issue is that they've pushed the tree-based dialogue system in ways that it's cracking. Tree dialogues are good when the dialogue within them is built in a way that you still feel like it's a proper discussion, and making your choices feels like making baby steps in a small maze towards the desired exit. They're not so good if it's more like four apples in cups and you press A, B, C or D. I can only think of the Witcher series where they're trying to write in a way that still plays to the tree system's strengths - others, they've gone towards shaking up dialogue mechanics to get where they want to get (i.e. AP/ME/etc dialogue wheel/stance), which is nto necessarily much better IMO.

 

Anyway, still deliberating what side to take for this playthrough. The tragedy about the Legion is that I really really want to hear them out and give them a chance, but in numerous small ways I feel the balance was tipped - i.e. we only ever see their brutal side 90% of the time (e.g. no 'normal' Legion town in the game), we have to wait most of the game to get to Caesar's exposition, as opposed to the likes of Vulpes Inculta being more talkative, and sometimes the Roman art style is over the top (Big Massive Sword Masked Man, really?). We'll see.

[Cantousent]

I actually killed that big assed Roman masked man last time. Then I reloaded from a save and went through my speech check. In my mind, the best way to keep things balanced is to make sure that neither side is completely decimated. I don't want the NCR to bypass me to the south to knock off the Legion and take over their territory. The only reason the NCR is stretched thin is because they've got an actively hostile and unified force facing them. It might be hard to bypass Vegas, but they could and there's some prime and well ordered real estate that would be fairly defenseless if I completely took out the Legion. If the NCR pacified the Legion territories, they'd be able to overwhelm New Vegas in a generation. I need to be too tough to crack from all sides and I need to play the middle in as many viable sides as possible.

 

I do believe that the NCR could be the most powerful faction of those I've seen so far, but that's assuming they can keep up communication and adhere to the institutions of their republican government. The strength of a representative democracy is innovation and enterprise born out of liberty. The weakness is the lack of a cogent goal born out of factious divisions due to personal freedom. In my vision of New Vegas, we'd crumble entirely as our own entity should we even attempt to form a republic with the Legion and the NCR on either side. The best I could do is allow for somewhat autonomous self rule in outlying areas while keeping hold as the supreme ruler in a more or less enlightened despotism. Such an arrangement can only be secured for a single generation, though, so I have to think of what will happen before the end of my days. Otherwise, we might have another good ruler, but then again, maybe not. That's why institutions are the most important thing I can build into the government.

 

As for the dialogue, I think the witcher tries hard, but even then you get all sorts of hinky things going on in those trees, and I don't just mean sexually. I'm still interested in the sequel that I guess is coming our way. At least I think I saw a thread for it somewhere.

[TheHarlequin]

The tragedy about the Legion is that I really really want to hear them out and give them a chance, but in numerous small ways I feel the balance was tipped - i.e. we only ever see their brutal side 90% of the time (e.g. no 'normal' Legion town in the game), we have to wait most of the game to get to Caesar's exposition, as opposed to the likes of Vulpes Inculta being more talkative, and sometimes the Roman art style is over the top (Big Massive Sword Masked Man, really?). We'll see.

 

I was thinking this EXACT same thing a few days ago. I want my PC to like/join CL but unless one plays totally OOC I can't for the life of me justify how or why anyone would want too. As you said by the time you can engage anyone of note from CL your view have been shaded quite a bit. And you prob are in deep with another faction by then anyways. CL never really seemed to be given a fair shake for some reason. Happenstance or design not sure, only JE or MCA could answer that I'd guess.

[LadyCrimson]

I think the CL disparity makes sense, actually. It's not unlikely to have at least one group that's not popular with the majority of a local population during a period of upcoming war, and therefore would be harder to join/have many social repercussions from joining and all of that. I like to think it's by design...that in joining them it's a greater challenge to get around in the world, as well as having less options (eg quests/towns/companions). Not that this has made me any more interested in playing for their side, heh.

 

Re:companion DT...I had read/thought that charisma gave them a percentage bonus to their DT. Example, 10 would give them 50% bonus so if they had on 20DT armor that'd be 30DT. But someone else said this was wrong and it's actually a straight number bonus per charisma point, five to be exact. If so this would maybe explain why I find them so not-fragile? So many forgo charisma for other stats but I tend to have at least 7 charisma and that would give them 35DT on top of whatever armor I give them. That's a lot. Still no good against deathclaws, but yeah, a lot. Have 10chrs. and they'd have 70DT with just reinforced combat armor. Tanks. No wonder 90% of things don't do more than a few pts. of dmg per hit, when I check them.

 

I think the max the player chr. could achieve (power armor+perks+maybe some aids?) is 46 or 47...not sure on that, but mine's never even close to that high anyway.

Edited November 30, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[Calax]

This is just me, but even if what you say is true LC there's still the fact that for the MASSIVE part of the game the only thing you see, through action and rumor, is their dark side. Nipton, Boones wife, the rangers outpost, plus rumors all point to "LEGION IS EVAL!" Now I've only just gotten to vegas and haven't entered the strip, but I have yet to see anything good the Legion has to offer to anyone.

 

I find myself more drawn into New Vegas than 3 and I can't quite put my finger on why. Best guess is that I always seem to have a finger pointing me in the right direction and I don't have to dig my way through subways to get to the next point. F3 always felt more about yutzing around rather than following a distinct track, while New Vegas has a very linear sequence of events that doesn't require you to traipse all over the blasted place just to get to the next section of the main quest. Seriously, it's just kinda one big U to Vegas, while in 3 you're going this way then that way, then back, and often I felt like I didn't have a real direction.

 

Admittedly this is probably more of a bash towards sandbox games as a whole, but there is something to be said for linearity. At least I know where I'm going rather than just having a fuzzy idea and a four mile obstacle course to get to the approximate area.

[LadyCrimson]

Actually, if you listen to Vulpes whole spiel in Nipton, he makes it quite clear what their rationale is....justice and morality and various other such notions. The voice actor for Vulpes could almost convince me to join up, but then I remember myself.

 

He's supposed to be your intro into what their actual motivations are, and they let you decide whether you think their ends justify their means - or that you can at least live with it. Crucifying and slavery etc. is part and parcel of the CL, and if you don't agree with that kind of law&punishment/work&social model, even if you agree with some of their ideals, they're still likely going to come off as being very "evil." Showing CL playing with their children at home or a quest to romantically link two CL youth are not going to make those ugly things about them go away. May as well put it in the forefront and thus make a possibly difficult role-playing decision for the player to choose to go in that direction from the outset.

[HoonDing]

Caesar failed to impress me and convince me of the worth of Caesar's Legion, unlike Ashur in the Pitt. The conditions in the Pitt were perhaps even more brutal than the Legion, but Ashur's long-term plans were sound. He made me do a double-take and join him in the end.

 

Actually, a NV DLC similar to the Pitt may pop up in the future, starring Elder Elijah.

[Calax]

I saw their rationale, but the thing is that due to sociological programming, something on that scale instantly screams "BAD BAD BAD EVIL EVIL EVIL!" in 90% of peoples heads (including your characters given that 2/3 lines of dialogue are "dude, you suck!")

 

I'm not asking for the quests you mentioned, but maybe have us go to a CL town that prospered only after CL came in and rebuilt it with people actually WANTING to work/live with the CL would have done a lot to de-villify the CL. Show what they're doing can work, and while extreme, they are fair about things. Sort of like the Clans in Battletech fluff.

[Humanoid]

Maybe there should have been a pre-destruction Nipton that's all nasty and stuff initially. More NCR nastiness on both an organisational (vague hints about Bitter Springs probably weren't enough to tip the balance) and personal (almost all NCR troops you met were basically nice and decent) level.

[Starwars]

I think they did well on portraying the NCR as a fairly believable organization. They have "good" values and good folks in it but there's a lot of problems still. Perhaps one problem with the faction is that the Courier can really solve so many of the problems. This is standard in RPGs of course, but it does make the flaws of the NCR fade into the background a bit. But I mean, there are many occasions where they're portrayed as flawed. The bureacracy and corruption of the higher-ups, the fact that new recruits barely get any training and bad equipment, communication problems, some moral debauchery on the Strip and perhaps even worse in Nipton. The fact that it's aggressively expanding, taking over territory, all for the goal of acquiring resources. Some of the stuff they have you do in the main quest.

I think the only way they can be viewed as *good* is when juxtaposed directly against the Legion.

 

Like others say, I think the main problem is really that we only see the warfront of the Legion, only the bad and brutal side, only speak with people who even sound evil. Any positive notes are very vague.

 

I liked that the Legion is portrayed as being brutal in how they conduct their wars but what about areas they already control? We only know that they are "safe" but how are things conducted? I think the information presented on the Legion in the game just isn't enough for a character who isn't a psychopath to side with them.

Edited November 30, 2010 by Starwars

[Enoch]

I'm back home and my second playthrough is now getting into the mid-late game. Again I'm beginning to notice how some bits of NV's dialogue, like so many in the last few years, feel 'truncated'; pass one speech check and they OK everything you suggest, etc. It's likely voice acting amongst other things, and it's been bugging me for a while now in most recent games.

I encountered a low-light last evening: The dialogue with the leader of the mercenaries threatening Jacobstown. One vaguely threatening dialogue choice with a speech threshold, and he packs up and goes home. That's more than just voice-acting; it's not bothering to flesh out the dialogue enough to make the outcome believable at all.

[cronicler]

The whole "north-west" side of the map (Khans, Fiends, Jacobstown and most of the minor locations) actually suffer from similar problems. Things happen too fast and suddenly and the existing quest chains just feel minor grade irritants instead of something you can bite into.

[LadyCrimson]

Yeah, the dialogue is a weak point in many things. For me it's definitely not the voice acting (well, in most cases, heh), but the almost see-spot-run simplicity of the dialogue options. I don't expect truly complex trees or long-winded dialogues in today's short-attention span theater but it is very abrupt at times.

 

...now the companion DT debate is back to being a percentage concept. I guess no one truly knows this stuff yet. I think the percentage base would make a lot more sense, but I can't figure out a way to test it, since the perk to see HP and DT doesn't seem to work for me. I think that's what other people are using to check.

[entrerix]

my guess is that those areas (northwest) were planned to have more quests and content depth but time began running short, as it is one can hardly fault the team for lack of things to do in the game. i've played 130+ hours and i know there are a few dozen quests i haven't even seen yet