New Vegas Review

[Cantousent]

I think I

[Hurlshort]

Jesus, where the heck have you been?

 

I agree with you 100% by the way. It is simply an amazing game.

[Monte Carlo]

Hi, good to see you back.

 

Your post has got me pretty excited, as I'm installing it now.

 

The irony isn't lost on me that I've gone from being pretty indifferent about Fallout to being a bit of a fan (I liked FO3 a lot) mainly due to the changes the old-skool fans hated. I'm looking forward to many hours of exploring, it seems from what you are all saying is that Obz have nailed down the sandbox aspect and blended it pretty skilfully into a bigger story. This is what I love about RPGs.

 

I'll let you know what I think.

[kirottu]

OMG HIHI ASL?!?

[Pidesco]

Hooray for Eldar!

[Nepenthe]

Hi, good to see you back.

 

Your post has got me pretty excited, as I'm installing it now.

 

The irony isn't lost on me that I've gone from being pretty indifferent about Fallout to being a bit of a fan (I liked FO3 a lot) mainly due to the changes the old-skool fans hated. I'm looking forward to many hours of exploring, it seems from what you are all saying is that Obz have nailed down the sandbox aspect and blended it pretty skilfully into a bigger story. This is what I love about RPGs.

 

I'll let you know what I think.

Mmh, I'd say. My general take on sanbox games is that I spend enormous amounts of time doing nothing of value (which is why I intensely dislike them). With New Vegas, i feel like I'm actually doing a lot of useful things. Strange, but they definitely did something very right with this game!

[Atreides]

Welcome back, Commander

[Oerwinde]

The beef I've been having lately with the fallout universe is how it seems like every vault managed to end horribly unless you come from it, and even the stable, populated areas are still wrecked rubble covered messes. You'd think after several generations of living in an area people would have cleaned some of it up by now. Camp McCarran has been the headquarters of the NCR in New Vegas for what, 5 years? And the terminal building and offices and stuff are still covered in broken furniture, litter, etc. You'd think they would have organized a bit. It also had a lack of non-combat personnel. The cook, medic, and two scientists were pretty much the only non-combat personnel in the whole base.

[mkreku]

The beef I've been having lately with the fallout universe is how it seems like every vault managed to end horribly unless you come from it, and even the stable, populated areas are still wrecked rubble covered messes. You'd think after several generations of living in an area people would have cleaned some of it up by now.

I rented a room at the motel in Novac, and it was filled with litter. Why on earth do they spend the time to setup a motel and not even bother to clean out the rooms they rent out to people?

[Tigranes]

All agreed, the one thing I found was silly is that although it's better than FO3 (where, well, everything is rock and sand), the world still should have recovered a lot more. One of the reasons FO3 was so dour for me was because I was so sick of the landscape - it makes both gameplay and setting sense for the world to have a little more colour and vegetation now.

 

As for human settlements the FO world seems to just have terrible wrecks (80%) and then impossibly super-clean areas (original BOS, etc).

[Cantousent]

I lied. I haven't had time to hang out on the boards for a long time and I figured that I probably still wouldn't after I said my piece. Goes to show you how much I know. I enjoy the game so much I find I want to talk about it with other folks who've played it. lol It's literally costing me sleep. When I'm off doing other things, I find myself thinking about what I'll be doing when I get back to play. Congrats, Obsids, this is your best effort to date. I passed on Alpha Protocol, thinking that it looked interesting but not really my cuppa. Anyhow, I'd already passed on the Bioware title Mass Effect and I'd heard that it was kind of the same idea in terms of gameplay.

 

New Vegas is awesome. I mean, yeah, one of my long held complaints about Fallout 3 was the fact that people in the cities didn't even bother moving any debris out of the way. It's much much better in New Vegas. The one glaring exception is the kitchen at the airport. By my thinking, having debris and clutter in general makes sense. Obsids doesn't really have a choice in that the setting demands the whole post apoc look. Still, military encampments as disciplilned as the NCR or a real Roman Legion would not just have crap in the street. Soldiers in professional armies don't operate that way.

 

Anyhow, I came online to share one of my favorite lines. When I confirmed that the reports from one of the camps was false, I suggested that the officer in charge was lying about the condition of her base. She was finally exasperated and told me, "do an f'ing head count if you want to, then!" lololol

 

Anyhow, I'm kind of embarrassed in that I see there are a bunch of other threads for New Vegas. Since there really isn't a lot of traffic in this thread, you mods could stick it in one of the others. On the other hand, I don't care and I'm too lazy to read the whole length of the other threads, so no biggie to me either way. *wry grin icon*

[Tigranes]

I think in terms of cleaning clutter the one thing that's stuck out at me so far is how in Primm, even though the Nashes return to the Mojave Express building, they don't even move the dead guy right outside. He was well placed for atmospheric effect when you first get there, not so much when Ruby is having a stroll right nearby.

 

We'll let you go this time Cant but there's a lottery waiting for you if you continue your evil posting ways...

[Calax]

CANT! *leaps through the air and gets bashed down to the ground in anime style*

[GreasyDogMeat]

I think in terms of cleaning clutter the one thing that's stuck out at me so far is how in Primm, even though the Nashes return to the Mojave Express building, they don't even move the dead guy right outside. He was well placed for atmospheric effect when you first get there, not so much when Ruby is having a stroll right nearby.

I didn't even really notice the clutter until I went into someone's house and they were sweeping. Then I looked at the ground and finally noticed how filthy it was. Magazines, trash & garbage everywhere and this person is sweeping with no effect.

[Slowtrain]

Wasteland Humor: I thought it was great. If you

[Cantousent]

That's my point, though. Someone sweeping up trash and having the trash remain is jarring. Basically, if a place is a more or less permanent home, I think folks would have cleaned it. It seems to me that even the dirt farming villages in Fallout and Fallout two didn't tend to be quite so bad. Dirt floors, yes. Crap folks would step on and potentially hurt their feet? No way.

 

I don't mind forgiving some discongruity. It depends. It's also true that some things bother some folks more than others. As for vegetation, that's not jarring at all. There would be considerably less vegetation in that area once the people got killed off, not more. That complaint is more valid for Fallout 3 than New Vegas.

 

Anyhow, I even find myself thinking about New Vegas while fighting Arthas the Lich King. You know a game is good when you spend time thinking about it while you're playing a different game.

 

Overall I get such a kick out of the dialogue. I went into this shop on my second run with a different rep with the powder Gangers when I met the person inside and he laments that he was in there suffering with his crippled legs when the Powder Gangers' Grim F'ing Reaper walks in. hahaha I just love it.

 

Slowtrain: There's an at start perk that I take that basically comes with the caveat that it makes the game sillier/stranger. To be honest, I think the balance in New Vegas is a little less slapstick than Fallout 2/3. I think the depiction of the wasteland is certainly serious enough, but there's enough of the zany humor I liked in the previous titles to make it fun.

Edited November 4, 2010 by Cantousent

[Gorth]

Basically, if a place is a more or less permanent home, I think folks would have cleaned it.

Uh huh...

[Cantousent]

Okay okay. I get ya. How about this, if a place is more or less your permanent home, you will at least try to make sure that you don't live crap right next to your bed that will cut up your foot when you get up to take a whiz in the middle of the night. At least most rational people would, I think.

[Blodhemn]

True enough. Funnily though, with the games bland textures, the dirty environments look a lot better than the few clean ones do.

[Hurlshort]

If your biggest complaint about the game is people haven't picked up enough trash, you should try the most recent version of Waste Management Simulator. Just watch the Recycling exploit, you get way too much money from it.

[Monte Carlo]

Wasteland Humor: I thought it was great. If you

[Cantousent]

You've got a point, Hurlshot, but I think of it differently. The way I figure, if the most substantial complaint you can level against the game is the way the artists have depicted wasteland debris, then you've probably got a great game on your hands. If it's the largest complain *and* it is in and of itself enough to make you dislike the game, *then* you need to find the waste disposal simulator you described.

 

I do have other complaints, but not really very many and I would think of the majority of them as minor. First and foremost I would place the bugs. Now, here's the deal on bugs in New Vegas. Fallout 3 had some real doozies in it. In that respect, New Vegas has bugs by and large in the same way that Fallout 3 had bugs. Frankly, if Obsidian didn't have such a bad track record with engine performance, I would probably give them a pass on the bugs because I'm convinced that most of the bugs I've seen in New Vegas, folks walking up the sheer side of tents for example, are shared between the two games and therefore probably in the engine itself rather than anything Obisidan did. As I play more and find that the bugs are either very rare or are not overly intrusive, I'm actually more willing to forgive the bugs. During many hours of play the most annoying thing I've encountered would be a handful of crashes to desktop. Simply restarting the game has resolved the issue in all but one case. In one case, encountering the same crash twice, I rebooted my system and progressed from there. I have had no corrupt saves thus far. I have had no game stopping bugs thus far. I have had no bugs that substantially detracted from my enjoyment thus far. 'Thus far' is sufficient for me to be more than happy with the purchase of the title. If I never played another minute of the game, which isn't true because I'm already thinking of what I'm going to do when I get back into the wasteland, I would still be happy with the purchase and flagging interest in Obsidian, which was all but extinguished, would still be still be renewed. How was that for subordinate clauses? hehe

 

In terms of the factors that tend to irritate me most.... *shrug* You know, the debris thing is actually the most intrusive thing about the game and that's only because it defies logic. Nevertheless, it's such a minor thing that it only stuck me in one place, that being the aformentioned kitched at camp mccarran. There are two things that I keep in mind about that particular place. First of all, the devs might have meant it as humor. I mean, the eatery is clearly the most debris filled place in the base. If that's the case, I respect the effort, but it fell flat. The other thing is, since it's so much more sensical than Fallout 3, I wonder if I would've even notice it if I hadn't played Bethsoft's title first. I guess the third thing would be, in total agreement with Hurl, if that's the biggest complaint I have, the game must be damned good.

 

I recall Slowtrain from when I used to post on this board back in the day, so I don't want to be insulting. I understand that the original Fallout was kind of on the edge between spoofing ol' 50s culture and depicting the harsh realities of a post nuclear wasteland. The 50s spoofing won out in the end. Like Monte and I have said, you can cut down on the zany stuff if you don't choose the wild wasteland perk. Also, there's an ironman mode that gives ammo weight and makes dehydration a real challenge. I plan on doing the game in iron man mode on the third run. That would probably go quite a ways to making the game 'gritty' for a lot of the hard core palyers.

 

In terms of other factors, nothing has struck me. Oh, yeah, sometimes particular conversations strike me. I mean, it's really easy to gain confidence from people all around the wasteland. That sort of complaint is legitimate for every rpg I've played. If they took the time and effort to more realistically depict the sort of effort required to infiltrate these organizations, and keeping in mind that it might be simply impossible for a former courier, the game would probably not be improved in any way.

 

Yes, I think the game could be more stable. The engine could be less clunky. The inventory, good Lord yes the inventory, could be more user friendly. There are a lot of things that could be improved theoretically, but the game is so good as it is that I don't really care much about the things that, often only after reflection, I dislike.

 

To get back to the debris issue: I think New Vegas is much much better as regards the incongruity between settled areas and the wasteland at large. The Strip is an excellent example of how a recently emerging society would deal with mass debris in the streets.

 

The tone and atmosphere in the game is just splendid. Overall the voice acting is fair and some of it is actually quite good. The one guy I mentioned before talking about crucifixions going on and on and on is so funny I laughed out loud. The floating text is great. Little things that didn't take much time for the devs to implement strike me during the game. For example, having Boone in my party draws jealous comments from other NCR folks wishing they had a recon sniper looking out for them.

 

The battles, on normal, tend to be pretty easy and there isn't enough cash on the vendors to buy all my loot. Those two complaints are minor compared to the fun I've had killing wasteland badguys and selling their stuff.

 

I'm so tempted to look in at the longer NV threads but they're so long it's a little daunting. Still, I'm curious to see what other folks have to say.

[Hurlshort]

Slowtrain is Crashgirl, by the way.

[Tigranes]

I think some degree of schizophrenic dialogue / "hey guy we met 20 mins ago you're a buddy now" is simply inevitable in the current generation of nonlinear RPGSs. Whether it be Gothic/Risen, Bethesda games, Bio games, FNV.

 

Cant, I agree with you on debris so far, but I'll say two things - firstly, that it's probably an easy way to keep the atmosphere & art direction going consistently across the game (i.e. every once in a while something dilapidated or messy sticks out at you and reminds you it's Fallout), and secondly, FO1 & FO2 probably couldn't do this because of the engine limitations. Walking around would have been hell if FO1/2 houses had as much crap inside, whether ordered or messy.

 

I think FNV has the Fallout look spot on, + its own Vegas stuff - though I suppose I may reconsider after I see the Strip & more of the Legion, who knows. So many object designs are carried over, but more than that, the wasteland in itself looks just like it does in the FO1/2 videos, and in fact there were a lot more places in the originals that would have looked totally weird in 3D first person (San Fran, well, that looked weird in 2D too, Arroyo...).

[Slowtrain]

Slowtrain: There's an at start perk that I take that basically comes with the caveat that it makes the game sillier/stranger. To be honest, I think the balance in New Vegas is a little less slapstick than Fallout 2/3. I think the depiction of the wasteland is certainly serious enough, but there's enough of the zany humor I liked in the previous titles to make it fun.

 

 

That sound promising. SOme humor is fine as long as it doesn't go overboard. So if NV is no worse than FO3, which I enjoyed despite the silliness, taht's good enough.

 

As long as my companions don't suddenly burst into a version of "The Lumberjack Song", then its probably OK.