Poll suggests 1 in 5 Americans cannot make simple factual assessments

[Orogun01]

"I kind of see a parable here with the Roman empire, it wasn't built in one day and it definitively wasn't destroyed in one. It took a succession of petty emperors, if the damage done by Bush isn't fixed I see the US losing its status as the world foremost superpower."

 

being a super power is irreleavn to the discussion. the claim that Palin would 'ruin' the US. Not being a superpower doesn't mean you are ruined... unless you claim countries like Kanada and Britian and France are 'ruined' becasue they are not supowers. And, was Russia has improved since losing their 'superpower' status, imo. *shrug*

You underestimate America's need to have the biggest **** in the world, being a superpower is as American as apple pie. Why, the day we aren't in a war or dictating the fate of the world we won't have anything to do. It is indirectly related to the subject since the lost of status will make Americans crazy and basically any idiot that runs with an ad saying that they can get us back to our former glory will garner the most support.

[GreasyDogMeat]

I really hope you're not serious.

Dead serious. He is a bigger threat to the country than most of America's enemies.

[Archmonarch]

Yep, you're definitely not biased in the least. Obama may not have kept all his campaign promises, but at least he's trying to fix things. Which is more than can be said for Palin whose basic philosophy seems to boil down to the media (except Fox) is evil because they won't act as her propaganda agency and government is also evil, except when it is run by Republicans. Then it can do no wrong. Someone who felt the need to quit as governor of Alaska because of media pressure and gets facts wrong even when she writes them down ahead of time is in no way suited to national candicacy, much less the presidency. I also greatly dislike the 'America is a Christian nation' spiel of her and her ilk.

 

Also, Imam Rauf is a Sufi as is his congregation. For those who don't know, Sufis are the peace-loving branch of the Islamic faith who use dancing and mysticism to get closer to Allah. Al Qaeda hates them because they aren't easily brainwashed as terrorists and they've been persecuted throughout history for not being true Muslims. Hell, Al Qaeda even has a death sentence out for Rauf. Doesn't that say enough?

Edited August 23, 2010 by Archmonarch

[Guard Dog]

I'm no Obama fanboy, but I fail to see how he is rapidly bringing our country to ruin as some radicals would have us believe.

 

Uncontrolled spending, unamanageable debt, coupled with devaluation of currency. Every bad economic move GWB made, Obama has doubled down on it. The collapse is inevitable barring any major change. Why do you think gold, which has a real value between $700 & $800 per oz is now trading at over $1300?

 

Unemployment is at 10%, it's climbed 3.5% since he took office but has improved a little. Most of those were temporary jobs for the census and thos folks are getting laid off right now. He signs a miniscule small business tax break for new hires, then signs a mammoth healthcare overhaul that does nothing at all to control the one thing thats wrong with healthcare, out of control costs. So not only are the plans becoming more expensive, everyone is now required by law (enforced by the IRS) to buy into one. So if a small business cannot afford to insure it's 100 employees they have to offer no insurance at all, leaving the emplyees to buy state care at their own expense(no Europe is in NOT free) or lay off enough employees to make the plan affordable.

 

And don't even get me started on bailouts, TARP, VAT, and foriegn policy. Remeber when he promised unemployment would not go above 8% if we passed his "bailout", that turned out to be a big pork package to benefit democrat districts and had zero impact on the economy? This jackass is an absolute disaster. Its a Obamanation.

[Gfted1]

You underestimate America's need to have the biggest **** in the world, being a superpower is as American as apple pie. Why, the day we aren't in a war or dictating the fate of the world we won't have anything to do. It is indirectly related to the subject since the lost of status will make Americans crazy and basically any idiot that runs with an ad saying that they can get us back to our former glory will garner the most support.

 

 

I disagree. Up until bombs were falling on Pearl Harbor the general public was clamoring for an isolationist approach to foreign relations so its not like being a superpower is all weve ever known.

[Meshugger]

You underestimate America's need to have the biggest **** in the world, being a superpower is as American as apple pie. Why, the day we aren't in a war or dictating the fate of the world we won't have anything to do. It is indirectly related to the subject since the lost of status will make Americans crazy and basically any idiot that runs with an ad saying that they can get us back to our former glory will garner the most support.

 

 

I disagree. Up until bombs were falling on Pearl Harbor the general public was clamoring for an isolationist approach to foreign relations so its not like being a superpower is all weve ever known.

 

The military-industrial complex has come to stay.

[Humodour]

If Gillard ends up as PM over here (I don't know I haven't been following our election), and then Palin ends up as President in the states, then the world really is going to end in 2012, if this path of female political leaders continues any further.

 

You say that but consider an Abbott government... pictures of Tony thrusting his red budgie smugglers on display in the news every day

[Guest The Architect]

Yeah, how hot would that be.

[Humodour]

Hotter than Gillard in a bikini though? Those fiery red locks!

[Walsingham]

I'm no Obama fanboy, but I fail to see how he is rapidly bringing our country to ruin as some radicals would have us believe.

 

Uncontrolled spending, unamanageable debt, coupled with devaluation of currency. Every bad economic move GWB made, Obama has doubled down on it. The collapse is inevitable barring any major change. Why do you think gold, which has a real value between $700 & $800 per oz is now trading at over $1300?

 

 

GD, you're simply making your own case worse. This is precisely the problem with basing curency on gold rather than the market. Gold itself is only worth whatever the market says. It's not a dichotomy.

[Orogun01]

You underestimate America's need to have the biggest **** in the world, being a superpower is as American as apple pie. Why, the day we aren't in a war or dictating the fate of the world we won't have anything to do. It is indirectly related to the subject since the lost of status will make Americans crazy and basically any idiot that runs with an ad saying that they can get us back to our former glory will garner the most support.

 

 

I disagree. Up until bombs were falling on Pearl Harbor the general public was clamoring for an isolationist approach to foreign relations so its not like being a superpower is all weve ever known.

There is a great difference in the zeitgeist back then. Americana hadn't started, which is what people refer to when they speak of the "good old days" of America. Also back then we weren't as stupid, sad but true.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I'm not really enthused about Palin being president, but I have to say she's the only one of the potential candidates who I have confidence would honestly try to secure the border.

 

What would then happen once the cheap labor dries up, though?

 

You use expensive labor. Slavery went out 150 years ago.

[Guard Dog]

I'm no Obama fanboy, but I fail to see how he is rapidly bringing our country to ruin as some radicals would have us believe.

 

Uncontrolled spending, unamanageable debt, coupled with devaluation of currency. Every bad economic move GWB made, Obama has doubled down on it. The collapse is inevitable barring any major change. Why do you think gold, which has a real value between $700 & $800 per oz is now trading at over $1300?

 

 

GD, you're simply making your own case worse. This is precisely the problem with basing curency on gold rather than the market. Gold itself is only worth whatever the market says. It's not a dichotomy.

Wals, I've never said we should go BACK to gold, whats done is done. That ship sailed a long time ago. Had we never removed the dollar from gold it would have greatly stabilized it's worth and the volitility of gold prices. But, as Enoch correctly pointed out, it would be a limit on economic growth. Who could say whether things would be better or worse had that step never been taken. But no, there is no going back.

[Oblarg]

I'm not really enthused about Palin being president, but I have to say she's the only one of the potential candidates who I have confidence would honestly try to secure the border.

 

What would then happen once the cheap labor dries up, though?

 

You use expensive labor. Slavery went out 150 years ago.

 

It's the transition that would be a problem. There would be a rather rough period and the overall shift would not be without consequences.

 

It's not a simple problem to fix.

[Hurlshort]

I'm pretty sure we have not had enough time between the last debate over immigration, so lets stick to arguing over Palin for president.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It's the transition that would be a problem. There would be a rather rough period and the overall shift would not be without consequences.

 

It's not a simple problem to fix.

There wouldn't be any transition. You'd close the border and not have any more illegals get in.

[Morgoth]

Man, I make some random comment, and everyone's seriously discussing Paling will become president. lol.

[Oblarg]

It's the transition that would be a problem. There would be a rather rough period and the overall shift would not be without consequences.

 

It's not a simple problem to fix.

There wouldn't be any transition. You'd close the border and not have any more illegals get in.

 

I really hope you're not naive enough to think that transitioning from underpaid illegal workers to legal workers that require decent salaries would be smooth and painless. There would be serious repercussions felt not only by businesses but by consumers, and I'm not sure that it's all too wise to rush towards expelling all the illegals when we have become reliant on the cheap labor they provide.

[Wrath of Dagon]

I didn't say anything about expelling all the illegals, that's a strawman you brought up. The first priority shoud be securing the border, once the influx of new illegals stops, we can start thinking about what to do with the ones already here. I'm not advocating draconian action against them, except the criminals of course.

[Walsingham]

Wals, I've never said we should go BACK to gold, whats done is done. That ship sailed a long time ago. Had we never removed the dollar from gold it would have greatly stabilized it's worth and the volitility of gold prices. But, as Enoch correctly pointed out, it would be a limit on economic growth. Who could say whether things would be better or worse had that step never been taken. But no, there is no going back.

 

I apologise for not understanding. I don't think I am qualified to back you up, but that argument looks sound. At least for the United States.

 

Moving forward, though. What now? Do you allow the country to be riven entirely, or is it possible that by working togethera bad plan* can be made to work.

 

*Assuming, for the sake of argument that it is.

[Oblarg]

I didn't say anything about expelling all the illegals, that's a strawman you brought up. The first priority shoud be securing the border, once the influx of new illegals stops, we can start thinking about what to do with the ones already here. I'm not advocating draconian action against them, except the criminals of course.

 

I brought it up because the two concepts are, in the vast majority of the times I've had this discussion, treated as one. My mistake.

Edited August 23, 2010 by Oblarg

[Monte Carlo]

I didn't say anything about expelling all the illegals, that's a strawman you brought up. The first priority shoud be securing the border, once the influx of new illegals stops, we can start thinking about what to do with the ones already here. I'm not advocating draconian action against them, except the criminals of course.

 

This is the most powerful argument for rationale behind the Arizonan legislation. It's reasonable. It's why liberals deliberately ignore it.

[Guard Dog]

Moving forward, though. What now? Do you allow the country to be riven entirely, or is it possible that by working togethera bad plan* can be made to work.

 

*Assuming, for the sake of argument that it is.

There is nothing to be done now. It's over, inevitable. We are screwed. The only way to stop it now is to immediately freeze spending, then begin rolling it back by repealing these massive entitlement plans like Obamacare, Welfare, government workers benefits, etc. On top of that, tax cuts on the evil corporations is a must. It is not just about raising revenue, it's about spurring growth. The tax code needs to be altered so that the lower incomes also pay federal taxrs, not just the upper incomes. A national sales tax in lieu of income tax would accomplish this. Make welfare recipients take mandatory drug tests, no pass, no welfare check. Stop increasing their benefits evey time they have a child. If they get a minimum wage job, don't cut off their befefite all together, graduate it down until their pay increases. We need to reward folks for getting off welfare, not make it so they can't.

We need to make military cuts as well. Close half of our foriegn bases and build new ones along the mexican border. No only do we maintain our high alert their very presence their aids the border patrol. Any one of our Carrier groups commands more firepower than the entire military of any other nation on earth save Russia and China. And we have seven of them. Retire one.

 

But these thing will never happen because the republicans cannot do them and the democrats will not. All they are concerned with is their own political power and they will drive the country into collaps to preserve it, all along denying that it is happening.

 

The only other hope is for those states that are financially solvent and self sustaining (Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Florida, Tennessee, Alaska, and Lousiana to secced from the union and form a new country before the whole thing falls to ruin. The folks in the Northeast and Pacific coast are going to vote for the democrats no matter what. And the democrats are going to continue trying to convert us to a Planned Economic model. There is no need for everyone to go with them. But that won't happen either.

 

So the truth is, withing our lifetimes we will need to get used to the world without the United States in it. I for one find that frightening. But I have made preparations for myself if all of this does come to pass.

[Monte Carlo]

Any one of our Carrier groups commands more firepower than the entire military of any other nation on earth save Russia and China.

 

For now. Add India in the mid-21st century for good measure, although I suspect the USA is canny enough to make them a special ally.

 

And we have seven of them. Retire one.

 

Full spectrum dominance isn't a game whereby you accept that your power has parity with 'X' 'Y' or 'Z'. You either have full spectrum dominance or you don't. US global power is entirely predicated on your Carrier Groups, you are precisely where the Royal Navy was circa 1900.

 

Being a global superpower is tough. You have to explain to an unemployed single mom in Somewhere, Ohio, that her tax dollar is crucial in ensuring the free world prospers. It sucks. The alternative is worse. You need to make Europe pay for her defence, to make her create her own version of full spectrum dominance that augments, not challenges, your own. Problem is Europe remains an aspiration in defence terms and your nearest ally with any significant military capability (Britain) is broke and Mr. Obama clearly doesn't like us very much.

 

So your bulk buying of tinned goods, Night Vision Goggles and .338 FMJ rounds is probably not as moonbat crazy as it was twenty years ago

 

My tip? Buy three more of those carrier groups and park two off of the Gulf of Mexico.

[Humodour]

Moving forward, though. What now? Do you allow the country to be riven entirely, or is it possible that by working togethera bad plan* can be made to work.

 

*Assuming, for the sake of argument that it is.

There is nothing to be done now. It's over, inevitable. We are screwed. The only way to stop it now is to immediately freeze spending, then begin rolling it back by repealing these massive entitlement plans like Obamacare, Welfare, government workers benefits, etc. On top of that, tax cuts on the evil corporations is a must. It is not just about raising revenue, it's about spurring growth. The tax code needs to be altered so that the lower incomes also pay federal taxrs, not just the upper incomes. A national sales tax in lieu of income tax would accomplish this. Make welfare recipients take mandatory drug tests, no pass, no welfare check. Stop increasing their benefits evey time they have a child. If they get a minimum wage job, don't cut off their befefite all together, graduate it down until their pay increases. We need to reward folks for getting off welfare, not make it so they can't.

We need to make military cuts as well. Close half of our foriegn bases and build new ones along the mexican border. No only do we maintain our high alert their very presence their aids the border patrol. Any one of our Carrier groups commands more firepower than the entire military of any other nation on earth save Russia and China. And we have seven of them. Retire one.

 

But these thing will never happen because the republicans cannot do them and the democrats will not. All they are concerned with is their own political power and they will drive the country into collaps to preserve it, all along denying that it is happening.

 

The only other hope is for those states that are financially solvent and self sustaining (Texas, Alabama, Oklahoma, Nebraska, Florida, Tennessee, Alaska, and Lousiana to secced from the union and form a new country before the whole thing falls to ruin. The folks in the Northeast and Pacific coast are going to vote for the democrats no matter what. And the democrats are going to continue trying to convert us to a Planned Economic model. There is no need for everyone to go with them. But that won't happen either.

 

So the truth is, withing our lifetimes we will need to get used to the world without the United States in it. I for one find that frightening. But I have made preparations for myself if all of this does come to pass.

 

Are you aware that the bailouts to banks and the auto industry were loans which have been almost completely (or completely) repaid in full with interest? That includes the $800 billion dollar "bailout".