How do you think consciousness and energy are related, if at all?

[Guest The Architect]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are only three possibilities:

 

1) Consciousness is a non-physical form of energy

2) Consciousness is a physical form of energy

3) Consciousness is not any form of energy

 

1) If you believe that consciousness is a non-physical form of energy, then you would need to consider, in what way, non-physical energy differs from physical energy. If we can't define non-physical energy, then we should ask ourselves, why use the term "energy" at all?

 

2) I suppose this is the atheist viewpoint, where you are reducing consciousness to physics, and basically believe that consciousness is in the brain. I remember reading something in one of my psychology textbooks saying that there was evidence to suggest that was the case.

 

3) The third, alternative idea would mean that consciousness isn't any form of energy at all, physical or non-physical, and unlike energy, which is presumably something that spreads out in space (correct me if I'm wrong science buffs of the board), consciousness isn't made of this "something", and therefore cannot be located in space... which to me is like saying, it doesn't exist, but how can consciousness (awareness) be non-existent if we are aware of our existence as... well whatever we really are, whether it be infinite energy, or material beings.

 

What do you think?

 

I guess there is a 4th point of view, out of all this: Who cares? Does it really matter what the truth is? I guess it doesn't, really, but you can't help but wonder.

[Rostere]

There are two options:

 

1) Consciousness is a process which interacts with energy

2) Consciousness is a process which does not interact with energy

 

There is no such thing as "non-physical energy". If it's not physical, then it's not real, and then obviously it does not exist.

[Gorth]

Define 'Consciousness'?

 

If you mean your current state of mind, sum of all knowledge, experiences etc. then it is exactly that, a current state. If you mean the process that arrived at the particular state at that particular time, that requires energy. Chemistry and electrical charges are what you are

[Gorgon]

Our impression of our 'self' is the culmination of a learning process, as well as genetics, taking place in the brain which incidentally uses electrical impulses for internal communication. So, consciousness depends on energy to survive.

Edited August 5, 2010 by Gorgon

[Orogun01]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are only three possibilities:

 

1) Consciousness is a non-physical form of energy

2) Consciousness is a physical form of energy

3) Consciousness is not any form of energy

 

1) If you believe that consciousness is a non-physical form of energy, then you would need to consider, in what way, non-physical energy differs from physical energy. If we can't define non-physical energy, then we should ask ourselves, why use the term "energy" at all?

There isn't such thing as non-physical, if you are referring to something that can't be measured it would make more sense.

2) I suppose this is the atheist viewpoint, where you are reducing consciousness to physics, and basically believe that consciousness is in the brain. I remember reading something in one of my psychology textbooks saying that there was evidence to suggest that was the case.

Not a religious issue and consciousness not necessarily resides on the brain. If consciousness is just a series of synapses between neurons then the information that they produce is just energy and consciousness is made up of it.

3) The third, alternative idea would mean that consciousness isn't any form of energy at all, physical or non-physical, and unlike energy, which is presumably something that spreads out in space (correct me if I'm wrong science buffs of the board), consciousness isn't made of this "something", and therefore cannot be located in space... which to me is like saying, it doesn't exist, but how can consciousness (awareness) be non-existent if we are aware of our existence as... well whatever we really are, whether it be infinite energy, or material beings.

Both point 2 and 3 are not mutually exclusive, since if point 2 is true still doesn't explain how is the brain able to form concise ideas out of synapses. If we look at the brain as a computer and synapses being the binary code, still a code is necessary. Which is not a form of energy.

 

Although we could go the gnostic highway and tell that is an in between the physical realm and the other one.

[Wrath of Dagon]

Storage of information requires energy, so he's not far off on that. There's a part of the brain that's been identified as having to do with a sense of self, though trying to understand how that could work is kind of like trying to pick yourself up by your own bootstraps. Interestingly, the same area on the opposite side of the brain has to do with a sense of "presence", or perhaps extra-sensory perception is my hypothesis. Just saw that on TV yesterday.

[I want teh kotor 3]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are only three possibilities:

 

1) Consciousness is a non-physical form of energy

"Non-physical" energy doesn't exist.

 

2) Consciousness is a physical form of energy

All mass is energy. If the basic elements of consciousness have mass, which we can safely say because neurotransmitters exist, then consciousness is, like the res of the universe, physical energy.

 

3) Consciousness is not any form of energy

Everything has energy, even pure vacuum.

 

1) If you believe that consciousness is a non-physical form of energy, then you would need to consider, in what way, non-physical energy differs from physical energy. If we can't define non-physical energy, then we should ask ourselves, why use the term "energy" at all?

The term "energy" more or less means the capacity to do physical work, i.e. by moving stuff. It is not appropriate in this sense. Neither is anything else, really, because this case is impossible.

 

2) I suppose this is the atheist viewpoint, where you are reducing consciousness to physics, and basically believe that consciousness is in the brain. I remember reading something in one of my psychology textbooks saying that there was evidence to suggest that was the case.

The evidence for this comprises the various and sundry fields of neurobiology, biochem, biophyisics, and the like, which provide no evidence that anything going on inside the human head violates the laws of physics in any way.

 

3) The third, alternative idea would mean that consciousness isn't any form of energy at all, physical or non-physical, and unlike energy, which is presumably something that spreads out in space (correct me if I'm wrong science buffs of the board), consciousness isn't made of this "something", and therefore cannot be located in space... which to me is like saying, it doesn't exist, but how can consciousness (awareness) be non-existent if we are aware of our existence as... well whatever we really are, whether it be infinite energy, or material beings.

Of course consciousness is made of "something", or, rather, several somethings, like muons, pions, electrons, etc. As to whether or not in can be located, I direct you to the clustermind**** that is the Copenhagen Interpretation.

 

 

 

What do you think?

I'm sure this should be obvious by now, but number 2 is the only scientifically valid answer.

 

I guess there is a 4th point of view, out of all this: Who cares? Does it really matter what the truth is? I guess it doesn't, really, but you can't help but wonder.

 

Of course it matters; it is one of the most fundamental questions mankind is faced with.

[Irrelevant]

I think that Instinct is a set a of things we subconsiusly know that tells what what we should do(Or assuming free will exists, gives us a choice of what to do) If thats true, then conciousness(thought) is the process by which we make those decisions. However since there is enough time in the day in which we are not sleeping or spending time doing things that keep us alive, we have time to do things like this.(talk about things that don't really matter at all) Intelligence/intellect could be simply using the knowledge you already have to fill that time(We also have the ability to think or do things without having to come up with them ourselves or do things without thinking)

[Orogun01]

Storage of information requires energy, so he's not far off on that. There's a part of the brain that's been identified as having to do with a sense of self, though trying to understand how that could work is kind of like trying to pick yourself up by your own bootstraps. Interestingly, the same area on the opposite side of the brain has to do with a sense of "presence", or perhaps extra-sensory perception is my hypothesis. Just saw that on TV yesterday.

Can you remember which show or what the general subject was about?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Yes, it was on the Science channel and it was a show with Morgan Freeman which explored whether science points to the existence of God or the opposite. Don't remember the exact name but I'll post it if they repeat it.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It's called "Morgan Freeman's Through the Wormhole: Is there a Creator?"

[Orogun01]

It's called "Morgan Freeman's Through the Wormhole: Is there a Creator?"

Thanks a lot.

[Oblarg]

It's called "Morgan Freeman's Through the Wormhole: Is there a Creator?"

 

I watched a segment of "Through the Wormhole" and found it to be dumbed-down and handwavey to the point of silliness.

[Humodour]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but there are only three possibilities:

 

1) Consciousness is a non-physical form of energy

2) Consciousness is a physical form of energy

3) Consciousness is not any form of energy

 

1) If you believe that consciousness is a non-physical form of energy, then you would need to consider, in what way, non-physical energy differs from physical energy. If we can't define non-physical energy, then we should ask ourselves, why use the term "energy" at all?

 

2) I suppose this is the atheist viewpoint, where you are reducing consciousness to physics, and basically believe that consciousness is in the brain. I remember reading something in one of my psychology textbooks saying that there was evidence to suggest that was the case.

 

3) The third, alternative idea would mean that consciousness isn't any form of energy at all, physical or non-physical, and unlike energy, which is presumably something that spreads out in space (correct me if I'm wrong science buffs of the board), consciousness isn't made of this "something", and therefore cannot be located in space... which to me is like saying, it doesn't exist, but how can consciousness (awareness) be non-existent if we are aware of our existence as... well whatever we really are, whether it be infinite energy, or material beings.

 

What do you think?

 

I guess there is a 4th point of view, out of all this: Who cares? Does it really matter what the truth is? I guess it doesn't, really, but you can't help but wonder.

 

Consciousness is energy in the same sense that my hand is energy (matter and energy are closely related as per Einstein's famous formula). So option 2 is the correct one.

 

Consciousness is also energy when I've dropped some LSD. It goes a little something like this:

[Walsingham]

The generation of consciousness requires energy. The principle of conservation would suggest to me that consciousness is not some 'other' form of energy.

 

On the other hand, I would describe consciousness as an effect rather than a material flow.

[Wrath of Dagon]

It's called "Morgan Freeman's Through the Wormhole: Is there a Creator?"

 

I watched a segment of "Through the Wormhole" and found it to ... and handwavey to the point of silliness.

That's pretty much true of all particle physics, isn't it?

[Pidesco]

No.

[Tale]

Yes, it was on the Science channel and it was a show with Morgan Freeman which explored whether science points to the existence of God or the opposite. Don't remember the exact name but I'll post it if they repeat it.

The sense of "presence" demonstrated on the show was only extra-sensory perception in that it was perception engaged by non-sensory means. In that way, I find the ESP to be a little broad. Such as UFO, is someone talking about alien spacecraft or simply something in the sky they haven't identified?

 

We typically don't think of hallucinations as extra-sensory perception, but it's pretty similar.

Edited August 6, 2010 by Tale

[Wrath of Dagon]

I wasn't saying that's what the show claimed, I said that was my own hypothesis.

[Aram]

If you run out of energy you become unconscious.

 

Boom. I win all the money.

[Humodour]

It's called "Morgan Freeman's Through the Wormhole: Is there a Creator?"

 

I watched a segment of "Through the Wormhole" and found it to ... and handwavey to the point of silliness.

That's pretty much true of all particle physics, isn't it?

 

No.

[Orogun01]

It's called "Morgan Freeman's Through the Wormhole: Is there a Creator?"

 

I watched a segment of "Through the Wormhole" and found it to ... and handwavey to the point of silliness.

That's pretty much true of all particle physics, isn't it?

 

No.

Schr

[Wrath of Dagon]

I wasn't talking about quantum mechanics, that makes perfect sense.

Edit:

I was talking about stuff like this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogdanov_Affair

Edited August 7, 2010 by Wrath of Dagon

[Wrath of Dagon]

Sort of related to the subject: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/12/educatio...amp;ref=science

[Junai]

When you understand that names and shapes are hollow shells without any content whatsoever,

and what is real is nameless and formless, pure energy of life and light of consciousness,

you will be at peace - immersed in the deep silence of reality..

 

- Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj