Dragon Age 2

[Monte Carlo]

All the same, I can't get excited about it. The pre-defined PC thing is really a deal-breaker for me, everything else just adds to my initial indifference.

 

It's still interesting, as a gamer, to observe what Bio is doing with the franchise and with CRPGs in general. Even if I think they are becoming a crusading force for mediocrity.

[Magnum Opus]

You and me both. Me, I thought the game was successful enough, but I suspect I'm using a different measure for success than BiowarEA. To me, 3 million+ in sales seems pretty good, but I suppose the long development time ate away at the profits too much.

 

Does the social site have any stats for most common character or anything like that? If 80% of people all picked human noble I can imagine there'd be some disappointment with respect to the effort put into the Origin stories.

 

I think the length of the game is a large handicap in this regard. Decisions that you make probably aren't transparent enough that players don't get the "reinforcement cookie" that something they did 30 hours ago actually changed something now, and the sheer length of the game I think makes it intimidating for restaring with a different origin story.

The social site actually carries a lot of stats regarding a body's playthroughs... when it works. Character, origin story, percentage of party kills, amount of damage dealt, even a synopsis of the story for that particular character in bullet point form. And there are achievements on the site as well, although from what I can tell, they're just lumped together in one giant achievement pool instead of bound to the character that acquired them.

 

As a stat-gathering tool, it was actually pretty darned thorough. For many players, particularly on the console side, it was bugged all to heck and nothing ever got uploaded, or only a small amount of their game data got uploaded, but I would imagine that it served its purpose well enough to give Bio a clearer picture than ever before about just how players use their products when it comes to such things.

 

But that's only on an individual per-user basis. To the best of my knowledge, I don't think the site has a publicly viewable profile of all players, saying that 90% played Human Male Wizard, and that they played that character to level 18 before getting an Archdemon-related achievement. But I would actually be surprised if someone over there hasn't written a little snippet of code to sift through that aspect of the site to see just what's what. It'd present an incomplete picture to be sure, but it's still better than nothing.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Two new previews:

 

Joystiq

 

GameRant

[Gromnir]

If they remove the top down view from the pc, that's another strike against this game. I'm getting more and more skeptical.

 

Just to be fair, the one saying that was the same guy who talked about Xbox360 being the lead platform, something Bioware's developers have denied on their boards.

So, take it with a grain of salt.

 

our trust in bio is limited, but am not gonna believe that top-down view is being removed unless we sees some biowarian confirmation. doing so would alienate a significant % o' pc gamers. da2 seems to be excessive streamlined, perhaps in an attempt to meet an aggressive release deadline, but we still cannot accept that the da2 developers would sacrifice the overhead perspective.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Monte Carlo]

^ I think they would, Grom, I think they are moving to a console-focussed model in line with virtually every other developer.

[Meshugger]

Considering that the IGN-reviewer thinks that one is too nerdy to know the difference between ogres, orcs and goblins, i wouldn't be surprised either. All in the name of "broadening" the audience.

[GhostofAnakin]

Considering that the IGN-reviewer thinks that one is too nerdy to know the difference between ogres, orcs and goblins, i wouldn't be surprised either. All in the name of "broadening" the audience.

 

I chuckled when I saw that. Dude writes on a gaming site about video games, and he's trying to make himself out to be "cool" because he doesn't know the difference between ogres, orcs, or goblins? Who's he fooling?

 

If anything, it just proves he's a dumb nerd.

 

As for Dragon Age 2, I'm not sure I'm liking the direction they're going. It's early, so perhaps the previews are painting a false or misleading picture. But some of their decisions aren't enticing me to put DA2 onto my "must buy on release date" list.

 

First and foremost on that list is this thing where the story is told through various narrators, who may or may not embellish/lie about events. I might be reading way too much into it, but this almost seems like a convenient way for BioWare to both give the player a sense of "choice" in what they do, but at the same time override those choices simply by having the narrator tell the story the way they (BioWare) want the story to go, and ignore whatever choices the player makes by simply saying something to the effect of "well yes, that may have happened when you played the level, but the narrator decided to tell it another way".

 

Hopefully that concern will be clarified the more information is released.

[Thorton_AP]

Bioware has a history of implementing grand features like this, it's to their credit by-and-large. Prime example? BG2 Strongholds. Most gamers will play BG2 once in one class and access one stronghold.

 

Bio wrote, what, five or six?

 

Baldur's Gate 2 is a significantly shorter crit-path game.

 

It was probably orders of magnitude cheaper to make too.

[WorstUsernameEver]

Gamespot preview

[Monte Carlo]

First and foremost on that list is this thing where the story is told through various narrators, who may or may not embellish/lie about events. I might be reading way too much into it, but this almost seems like a convenient way for BioWare to both give the player a sense of "choice" in what they do, but at the same time override those choices simply by having the narrator tell the story the way they (BioWare) want the story to go, and ignore whatever choices the player makes by simply saying something to the effect of "well yes, that may have happened when you played the level, but the narrator decided to tell it another way".

 

The Force is strong in this one.

[Nepenthe]

Considering that the IGN-reviewer thinks that one is too nerdy to know the difference between ogres, orcs and goblins, i wouldn't be surprised either. All in the name of "broadening" the audience.

 

The whole preview was a travesty. I guess those MW2 guys are just too cool the mix with the geeks.

 

Also made it completely worthless, since it was impossible to tell what was old and what was new.

 

The guy claiming that top-down view is gone and x360 is the lead platform sounds like a definite troll; even if it were true, no way the PR would let them say anything like at this stage, full-blown torches & pitchforks material.

 

TBH, I don't use the top-down mode that much, but I like to have the option for the encounters that require active tactical control, and I do play zoomed further back than the console default...

 

Gamespot preview seems a bit more interesting. Knowing them, it was probably written by somebody in Bio/EA's PR dept, though.

[WorstUsernameEver]

 

 

.... are you trying to sexually harass me?

[Gromnir]

There are some impressions from the Comic-con demo at the Bioware's boards, apparently the graphics look better than the screenshot, Hawke has an english accent, Flemeth has the same voice actress but looks completely different, and the combat was super easy (but according to Mike Laidlaw, it was like that because the guy narrating that part of Hawke's story is one of his fanboys).

Also, they're still thinking whether implementing top-down view or not in the PC version.

Bioware apparently stated that the lead platform is the Xbox360 this time.

 

can you linky the nix'd top-down remark as we see no mention at the bio site... or elsewheres.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[WorstUsernameEver]

can you linky the nix'd top-down remark as we see no mention at the bio site... or elsewheres.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

In fact, it's not something official by Bioware, but just something a user reported, and apparently no one else heard, which lends credit to theory that he was indeed a troll

or Volourn a.k.a. Chris Avellone in disguise

.

 

Here's the link.

 

Now that I re-read the message, I'm 99% sure he's a troll

so I'm also sure he's Chris Avellone

, and I apologize for not spotting him before.

Still, cut me some slack, navigating through those boards is painful I tell you, PAINFUL! *nerdrages*

[Gromnir]

can you linky the nix'd top-down remark as we see no mention at the bio site... or elsewheres.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

In fact, it's not something official by Bioware, but just something a user reported, and apparently no one else heard, which lends credit to theory that he was indeed a troll

or Volourn a.k.a. Chris Avellone in disguise

.

 

Here's the link.

 

Now that I re-read the message, I'm 99% sure he's a troll

so I'm also sure he's Chris Avellone

, and I apologize for not spotting him before.

Still, cut me some slack, navigating through those boards is painful I tell you, PAINFUL! *nerdrages*

 

no need to apologize. at this point even the credible previews contain considerable speculation that will be proven inaccurate between now and release. we were simply curious why something seeming so significant were getting no mention in the Concerns and Boycott threads.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Monte Carlo]

Bioware has a history of implementing grand features like this, it's to their credit by-and-large. Prime example? BG2 Strongholds. Most gamers will play BG2 once in one class and access one stronghold.

 

Bio wrote, what, five or six?

 

Baldur's Gate 2 is a significantly shorter crit-path game.

 

It was probably orders of magnitude cheaper to make too.

 

Point not found. You're comparing production costs in 1999 / 2000 (Apples) to 2008 / 2009 (Oranges). In BG2 retrospectives in the mid-2000s, other industry professionals were citing the stronghold quests as an example of overly generous design.

[Thorton_AP]

Point not found. You're comparing production costs in 1999 / 2000 (Apples) to 2008 / 2009 (Oranges). In BG2 retrospectives in the mid-2000s, other industry professionals were citing the stronghold quests as an example of overly generous design.

 

It's easier to continue such stuff when your game is cheaper to make, and when the crit path of said game is also significantly shorter.

 

I am comparing the production costs from 2000 to 2009, and the general consensus is that they have escalated and mean that optimal sales are becoming more and more necessary.

 

 

In other words, I see the time spent on BG2 strongholds as being less of a "grand feature" given it's less connected to the rest of the game as the Origin stories and probably (adjusted for the inflationary spike in production) not as expensive of a decision to make.

[Tigranes]

How do you figure that DA has a much longer crit path, by the way? Just curious - I mean, BG2 revolved around the fact that you had the choice of a bewildering number of sidequests to kick off the crit path, while DA pretty much forced you to consume the majority of the game content in the form of crit path hubs. I mean, is a direct comparison really worthwhile?

 

I think there is a point to be had that the Origins were a more significant investment than the strongholds, if only considering the amount of importance Bio themselves, the media, and consequentlyt he consumers, placed on it.

[Tigranes]

More details:

 

Switching over to the mage resulted in a more tactical style of combat along the lines of the first game. With the mage, we preferred pulling up that radial menu and finding the best spell to cast in a given situation. Our favorite quickly became inferno, which lets you rain fire on a radius of enemies as though you'd just called a mortar strike from the heavens. According the Laidlaw, they've worked to make sure the mage has more "wow" moments in combat like the weapon-based classes. To demonstrate, he showed a mage finishing off an Ogre by lifting him up into the air, surrounding him with a dark energy, and then exploding him into nothingness.

 

Overall, the combat didn't feel remarkably different from the first Dragon Age. It flowed a little more smoothly and moved at a quicker pace, but that was mostly because our talents and spells recharged quickly after using them. That could very easily have just been something BioWare tuned for this public demo--likely a lowered difficulty to help ease players back into the experience. After this admittedly brief demo, we're confident that BioWare knows what they're doing. This isn't going to be a hack-and-slash game.

 

Why the return of the radial? I never understood the point - it seemed to be borne out of some sort of research committee who worked out it would minimise the cursor movement between each option, but never really did anything great in practice. Still, it's not terrible.

 

The uninterruptible, lengthy 'fatality' animations in Dragon Age were a big annoyance if you wanted tactical combat, so again it's going for "WOW DUDE THAT'S REAL COOL" to the detriment of good gameplay, but meh - again, it's not a big deal.

 

The encouraging point is that the combat doesn't feel too different.

[Nepenthe]

Why the return of the radial?

 

Because the previews were on the x360 and even DAO1 had a radial on consoles.

[Niten_Ryu]

Considering that the IGN-reviewer thinks that one is too nerdy to know the difference between ogres, orcs and goblins, i wouldn't be surprised either. All in the name of "broadening" the audience.

 

I chuckled when I saw that. Dude writes on a gaming site about video games, and he's trying to make himself out to be "cool" because he doesn't know the difference between ogres, orcs, or goblins? Who's he fooling?

 

I don't wanna defend the current garbage state of game journalism, but ain't that IGN dude just there just to report on Comic Con in general. Thus might not even played the original Dragon Age at all. To be honest, I couldn't tell the difference between generic orc and darkspawn if I wouldn't have played the game. Heck, I can barely tell the difference now.

[Nepenthe]

Considering that the IGN-reviewer thinks that one is too nerdy to know the difference between ogres, orcs and goblins, i wouldn't be surprised either. All in the name of "broadening" the audience.

 

I chuckled when I saw that. Dude writes on a gaming site about video games, and he's trying to make himself out to be "cool" because he doesn't know the difference between ogres, orcs, or goblins? Who's he fooling?

 

I don't wanna defend the current garbage state of game journalism, but ain't that IGN dude just there just to report on Comic Con in general. Thus might not even played the original Dragon Age at all. To be honest, I couldn't tell the difference between generic orc and darkspawn if I wouldn't have played the game. Heck, I can barely tell the difference now.

 

So you're too cool for us, too?

[Niten_Ryu]

So you're too cool for us, too?

 

It's not being cool or uncool but the basic design issue. If designers wanted, they could call Rogue class Shadowhumper but that probably wouldn't change the fact that class would play the same as all the other rogue classes. It's same with darkspawn - They are very similar to orcs. I'd say they are extremely similar to LotR orcs, the setting that made 'em popular.

[Nepenthe]

So you're too cool for us, too?

 

It's not being cool or uncool but the basic design issue. If designers wanted, they could call Rogue class Shadowhumper but that probably wouldn't change the fact that class would play the same as all the other rogue classes. It's same with darkspawn - They are very similar to orcs. I'd say they are extremely similar to LotR orcs, the setting that made 'em popular.

 

Yeah, the fact that the darkspawn are just rebranded WETA creations hasn't escaped too many of us, I think that the issue with the preview was the journalist literally flaunting his ignorance. It was obvious he hadn't dealt

 

Considering the first game did sell millions, it's fairly interesting to see the sequel approached in this manner. Have trouble seeing IGN writers approach, say, the new GTA* or Call of Duty*1 with a similar attitude.

 

*"There's a bunch of cars... or motorbikes, I can't really tell the difference"

 

*1 "You kill a bunch of guys with a gun or a crossbow.... or is it a knife? I really can't tell them apart, but the boothbabes in the camo bikini were quite nice."

[Monte Carlo]

It doesn't matter how tired the mook-creature-orc trope is, I expect the journo to know and elaborate.

 

Crap journalism is crap journalism and gaming is very poorly served by it's attendant media. A movie correspondent wouldn't get away with that, unless he was trashing the film.