Alpha Protocol Reviews

[Orchomene]

I can count several instances in the ME saga where I feel pumped, where I'm drawn in to the whole thing, where I go "Okay, it's time to kick bad guys' butt!" (the whole point from Ilos to the Citadel, all the rousing speeches, the siege on the Collector base, as examples). The whole ME saga so far gives me the feeling of being a bad ass warrior, able to lead people to hell and beyond. And that's only possible because of Bioware's presentation of the game. Contrast that with how Obsidian presented AP. Sure, I was able to tailor Mike Thorton to my liking, but I never for one moment felt that epic feel of taking on something. That is what I meant when I used the analogy of movies in my earlier post.

 

Yeah, ME games are epic. And then ? Why is "epic" a necessity in a story ? "epic" stories is the lazy way to attract people's attention. See the blockbusters of Hollywood, see Independance Day, Die Hard, Rambo 2 and more. Ok, those are movies one can enjoy. On the other hand, you can see Blade Runner or Brazil for sci fi, you can see La Strada. Those films are not "epic" yet better than the "epic" one I mentioned before.

I don't say that AP is a chef d'oeuvre storywise, just that the lack of "epicness" is not a bad thing.

The story of AP is not that much original and the storytelling is not a lot more than ok. But at least there is a story. Even more, the story change based on the actions of the player. That's what you can expect in a RPG that wants to be close to a P&P RPG (at least in spirit).

On the other hand, the stories of ME games are always the same. In every BW games there is the same story as in ME. In ME2, it's even worse, there is no story. The characters of ME 2 are caricatures and don't feel real.

Yeah, there are cinematics, ok. But I find it a bit expensive to pay that much for a game that is not more than a movie for which I would pay a lot less to watch. Sure, there are choices in ME2 : do you want to play the game and save all your NPCs or do you just want to skip hqalf of the game and lose half of your crew ? Blah. Gameplay wise, it's a boring shooter : cover/shoot/cover/shoot, rince and repeat, end of combat. There is no customization of equipment but changing the colour of the armour, finding some bonus +X% damage and minor modifications of the armour. In itself, you can go level 1 with the beginning equipment and fight the boss directly, the fight would be as easy since leveling doesn't change anything (besides enemies do level too) and equipment remains more or less the same as in the beginning.

So AP is a OK game. Far from the best of Obsidian, I agree. But there are some efforts put into dialogues dynamics and the way you can shape the story. On the other hand, ME2 is a brand mainstream game without originality besides the famous interrupts. So considering that ME2 is one of the ten best RPGs that have ever been created is something I can't understand at all. It may be a good shooter, but it's a really bad RPG.

[Chaste]

So AP is a OK game. Far from the best of Obsidian, I agree. But there are some efforts put into dialogues dynamics and the way you can shape the story. On the other hand, ME2 is a brand mainstream game without originality besides the famous interrupts. So considering that ME2 is one of the ten best RPGs that have ever been created is something I can't understand at all. It may be a good shooter, but it's a really bad RPG.

 

Like I said, it's in the presentation. ME2 is a decidedly polished game that met what it targeted. It knew what it wanted to do in the beginning, and it met those goals with flair and panache. It has a fun gameplay, regardless of what detractors are saying. Sure, it functions as a shooter but that's because Bioware listened to and observed the reaction and feedback from fans from ME1. They found out that fans are more receptive to the action part of the game so they tailored ME2 to be just that (if you have played ME1, you'll know that its shooting is somewhat similar to AP, in that it is stat-based, i.e., put points if you want a specialty in that weapon). I admit I was disappointed with how they dumbed down the min-maxing RPG aspects of it but they kept the story and and choices and made it more engaging and that's more than enough for me, as an RPG fan. In short, ME2 was considered to be a huge success because it presented a fun game with an engaging storyline (so far), wrapped up in a nice and polished package Is it a popcorn-type entertainment? Sure, but it never claimed to be otherwise.

 

Regarding the story, like I said above, it's unfair to compare AP and ME in story because the latter isn't finished yet. But even with what's being presented so far, I can't understand why people would say that ME2 has no story. To sum it up:

 

Humans are disappearing all over the galaxy. An organization that is operating outside the law and is considered by the intergalactic council to be a pro-human terrorist group decided that the only person who can uncover the mystery is you, the hero of the first game (who, BTW, can be established to personally hate this pro-human group based on your choices in the first game), because this group is suspecting that the disappearances are connected to the Great Big Bad that made itself known to the council in the first game. Unfortunately, you're dead, but due to the miracles of modern science, they are able to revive you. You are then tasked to collect a motley crew of badasses in a suicide mission to uncover said human colony disappearance mystery.

 

So, is that a no story? And while we're talking about stories, I read once where a writer (I think it was Gaiman) said that there is no such thing as an original story. Every story told comes from several story archetypes that have already been established before. Even AP is far from original and is actually standard spy fare. If your beef with ME's story is that it's essentially the same as other Bioware games, then you're already being biased because of it. Consider the specifics of every story and you'll realize that it's not the overall plot that matters, it's how it's delivered. That is where the "epic" part comes in. Being a wide reader of fiction and literature, I am already aware of the various story plot archetypes and thus, any story that is able to invoke in me a feeling of "AWESOME!" is well worth the price I paid for it. AP is standard backstabbing espionage story, with the unique DSS implementation which, as I've already said, is the crown jewel of AP. I acknowledge that it works, but see, it SHOULD work because that's the game's ace in the hole in the first place! Take that away and what do you have? A buggy game whose presentation and polish is below ME2. Even with the DSS, AP is still standard espionage story fare. But does that lessen my opinion of the game? No, because I'm basing AP on the specifics of what it's telling, and in that, it succeeds. It still doesn't take away the fact that AP is buggy, less than stellar, and -- with the exception of the innovative DSS which I am all praises for -- a generic spy RPG.

[Purkake]

I'm still not arguing whether or not we should compare games to each other, how hard is that to understand?

"Why not a gentlemanly deal? You finish ME2 and Volo will finish AP and then you can have a pistol duel at dawn to determine which game is truly better."

 

Sound familiar?

I was obviously kidding.

 

I'm arguing that you can't make any arguments about ME2, in whatever context without having played it, or at least do it with any credibility.

 

Why? How many of Drew's game must I play before I can say that his writing is terrible without risking losing "credibility"? Are you arguing that I must play every single one before I can make assumptions ABOUT THE WRITING?

 

Clearly you are missing the point I've raised repeatedly that if we are going to compare the two games ON THE BASIS OF THE WRITING, that I'm confident AP will win? Because I like to pull **** out of my ***? Or perhaps I feel I have a greater-than-passing familiarity with both writer's work?

 

I mention the writing here specifically because I've already conceded that you can have whatever argument you wish to have about the shooting. I've also invited you to introduce whatever other areas of overlap you feel the two games have. About 3 times now.

Just the one you're talking about.

 

Also, as you seem to have missed it the last couple of times I've posted it, I do not wish to discuss AP or it's similarity comparability to ME2.

[Orchomene]

Polish, graphics, sounds : all attributes that can be forgotten because highly subjective and of no real interest for a video game being enjoying.

Didn't you play video game with stunning graphics and a lot of polish but boring as death ? There were a lot of those kind of games at the beginning of the 3D engines.

On the other hand, there is the gameplay. some find the shooter gameplay is fun, other don't. I thought ME1 was ok, but the evolution of the gameplay for an "all-over-action-you-don't-even-see-the-enemy-coming-so-cover-and-shot-as-there-is-no-tomorrow", I don't like it. It's just not my taste. Thus, every combat in ME2 was a pain for me. I was just playing it to see a bit more the story revealed.

Well, the story : Shepard is raised from death, TIM said him to go to investigate the disappearing of humans in colonies. He then goes to a colony and find that collectors steal the humans. TIM then ask him to recruit people and go and destroy the collector base.

End of story. Well, a story written in three sentences and two lines is not what I can call a story. It has the depth of a Star Wars book, that is saying it's at the bottom level of the literacy.

Storytelling is void, there are a lot of plotholes and and so much discontinuities that it gives the impression that ten people write a part of the story and they just glued all the part together without checking if that had sense.

 

In AP, even if there is not a lot of originality in the story, there was some kind of continuity in the way the story reveals. It may not seem a lot, but having a game with different outcome possible that seem coherent (more or less) whatever the story arc is chosen, it's not easy at all.

So ok, there was not a lot of depth in the story that uses a lot of modern day "cliche" with islamist terrorists and bad companies selling weapons and controlling government agencies. But the way the story is developped and the interactions between missions is well designed. That is something I can appreciate.

It's true that there are some flaws : bad PC controls and glitches. But PST had a lot of bugs. Fallout 1/2 were also very buggy. Those games didn't have very intuitive interfaces. Yet, people can see a qualityu outside this lack of "polish".

Why isn't it anymore possible ?

[Jorian Drake]

"Also, atleast from a story standpoint Kotor 2 was anything BUT average. Especially for the SW universe."

 

The story was slightly above average espicially for the SW universe. Sorry, 'but the force is evil and must be destroyed' is not a deep story.

 

 

My bitch slap hand is trembling right now...

Volo does that to people the moment he opens his mouth

[Jorian Drake]

Meh.

 

I was glued to my screen by AP, despite several flaws that were EXTREMELY irritating. I found it to be a "flawed jewel", with lots of awesomeness tainted by lots of bad design desicision, but still a very enjoyable game.

I ALSO was glued to my screen by ME2, I found that the bad parts blended in the background and were not that much annoying, I liked a lot the character interactions and the cinematic story.

 

In the end, I liked AP and I liked even more ME2. AP was deeper and more complex, ME2 was more visceral and epic. ME2 is not the benchmark of bad RPG, despite what some would say, and it's far to be the worst choice for the "RPG of the year" title.

hm, weird, I only one had a bug in AP and I just restarted the game and i had no other issues after that, can't imagine why everyone complains about bugs

[Jorian Drake]

AP is as shallow as a fly

 

Wrong.

very.

[Jorian Drake]

never change, Wrath.

hehe, glad I read this before I responded to the above

 

EDIT: @V - I think we should just acknowledge that you aren't part of the target audience. This is a story-driven RPG for people that like story-driven RPGs. You didn't like the mechanics. That's fine. To each their own - really. But if you want to lambaste the game based on the story, it would really help your case to be able to say that you actually finished it.

I just can't imagine why someone liking ME would dislike AP

 

 

EDIT: i wanted to merge the posts, hey, where did the delete button disappear to?

Edited July 21, 2010 by Jorian Drake

[Wrath of Dagon]

Can you imagine why someone disliking ME would like AP?

 

Edit: Btw, they're completely different games, one has almost no relation to the other except in some superficial ways. For instance, ME story is ripped right from a Saturday morning cartoon. AP story is ripped right from some paranoid ranting on Pacifica Radio. See the difference?

Edited July 21, 2010 by Wrath of Dagon

[pmp10]

I played enough of the game, and read enough spoilers to know playingt he game further won't make the story any deeper than it is, the characters any more interetsing, or the C&C any more impressive than it is.

 

"I read first thirty pages of LOTR and decided the whole book series suck. I also watched the trailers and read some fansite for spoilers, damn those characters and story are baaaaaaad."

 

Faulty logic is faulty.

 

There's huge difference when it comes to representation/interactivity within games, books and/or movies if you compare that to small or long spoilers found on some forums/fansites.

 

In case you still don't understand I'll try to explain. It is somewhat different to read a bunch of spoilers from a website than to actually playthrough the damn story and interact with the characters within the game. Other is written by someone living at his parent's basement, done in haste and most likely has grammar errors, missing info etc. The other is written by someone who actually gets paid to do that and is presented with good voice acting that actually will bring those characters and story "alive" instead of just reading some wall of text etc. etc.

And how many times have you finished the game if you don't mind me asking?

[Volourn]

"The other is written by someone who actually gets paid to do that and is presented with good voice acting that actually will bring those characters and story "alive" instead of just reading some wall of text etc. etc."

 

Yeah, you got me. AP's writing, story,m and characters all get better magically at the 6 hour mark. My bad. If I had only stuck through the crap parts for just another hour, I would com,pletely love the game and believe it's the best ever - even better than PST, FO, or MOTB. LMAO

[Flouride]

Yeah, you got me. AP's writing, story,m and characters all get better magically at the 6 hour mark. My bad. If I had only stuck through the crap parts for just another hour, I would com,pletely love the game and believe it's the best ever - even better than PST, FO, or MOTB. LMAO

 

Finally you are admitting you are wrong. Good for you, though I wouldn't rate it higher than PS:T, FO or MOTB.

[Flouride]

And how many times have you finished the game if you don't mind me asking?

 

Both Mass Effects once and Alpha Protocol twice, going to start a 3rd playthrough soonish.

[Hassat Hunter]

It's true that there are some flaws : bad PC controls and glitches. But PST had a lot of bugs. Fallout 1/2 were also very buggy. Those games didn't have very intuitive interfaces. Yet, people can see a qualityu outside this lack of "polish".

Why isn't it anymore possible ?

Some of the most legendary games, like Deus Ex or Vampire: Bloodlines have had "a lack of polish".

Didn't make them less classic. I think some people are just grasping at straws, they have to explain their score some way no? That the bugs and stuff are nowhere to be found is just a minor detail...

[Volourn]

Except, bugs and all, BL is a pretty darn good game. It has some of the ebst character ever, great overall writing, a solid story with some depth, etc., etc. Ap, while less buggy, is just plain crap.

Edited July 21, 2010 by Volourn

[Hassat Hunter]

Would you say Santa Monica was the best part of Bloodlines?

[Cogar66]

"The other is written by someone who actually gets paid to do that and is presented with good voice acting that actually will bring those characters and story "alive" instead of just reading some wall of text etc. etc."

 

Yeah, you got me. AP's writing, story,m and characters all get better magically at the 6 hour mark. My bad. If I had only stuck through the crap parts for just another hour, I would com,pletely love the game and believe it's the best ever - even better than PST, FO, or MOTB. LMAO

New characters and factions all with EXCELLENT writing appear after Saudi. Of course in order to understand them, you'll have to play through more than once, as the choices you make effect what you discover.

[Volourn]

Yeah, so the writing magically gets better the moment I quit the game. R00fles!

 

P.S. Are you admitting the writing in the early game sucks?

Edited July 21, 2010 by Volourn

[Tigranes]

This thread makes little kittens bleed.

 

Remember, keep to arguments not personal attacks.

[Hassat Hunter]

P.S. Are you admitting the writing in the early game sucks?

Yes. Isn't this true for most games anyway?

 

And... you haven't answered my question.

[Volourn]

"Yes. Isn't this true for most games anyway?"

 

No.

[Oner]

And... you haven't answered my question.

Get used to it.

[Cogar66]

Yeah, so the writing magically gets better the moment I quit the game. R00fles!

 

P.S. Are you admitting the writing in the early game sucks?

Actually, yes, because you don't know ANYTHING about the characters, and there's like 3 that are important...

[Hassat Hunter]

"Yes. Isn't this true for most games anyway?"

 

No.

Very well... tell a few games where the story is the BEST in the start. So good, it doesn't get better than that.

[Thorton_AP]

I can't help, but notice that you are clearly ignoring the disclaimer that I posted a few posts back.

 

What's your game, Wrath?

 

Then how do you explain **** Cheney with a shotgun being the final boss, huh, huh?

 

 

 

My final boss was a big black guy with access to miniguns.