AAAHHHHHHH

[Morgoth]

The TW series went down the drain after Rome. But maybe they get their act together again with Shogun 2.

[Purkake]

Empire: Total War is super extra broken, plus the earlier Total Wars have some pretty awesome mods at this point.

 

Go get some awesome (and cheap) indie games instead of wasting money on buggy stuff.

 

As for violations of privacy, even the Obsidian board reserves the right to use some of your submitted information for a variety of different things.

Edited July 16, 2010 by Purkake

[Morgoth]

I have installed it. The game is rubbish.

 

Am exploring whether to uninstall it, but now Empires TW looks tempting.

Maybe you should do some research next time before you put money into the sand.

 

It was pretty obvious that Sniper was a stinker.

[Azdeus]

Empire: Total War is super extra broken, plus the earlier Total Wars have some pretty awesome mods at this point.

 

Go get some awesome (and cheap) indie games instead of wasting money on buggy stuff.

 

As for violations of privacy, even the Obsidian board reserves the right to use some of your submitted information for a variety of different things.

 

Yes, yes - very well aware of that. Does'nt make me dislike Steam any less though.

 

Love the Empire AI - 750 yard range howitsers en masse shooting away at the enemy that's just standing there. Brilliant stuff.

[Thorton_AP]

I don't use creditcards myself, I - guess what? :D - prefer handling cash!

 

I find cash much too risky. Lose that and I'm without recourse.

 

Lose my credit card or have the account compromised, and I'm protected against fraudulent use of it and have a new one provided to me. This service is provided to me, free, by my credit card company. To be clear: 100% protection from fraudulent use.

[Azdeus]

My bank does'nt issue that kind of protection, pretty much screwed there. Then again, I'm not particularly worried about losing my cash, but in the even that I am robbed, my insurance is supposed to cover that. Unless I'm killed trying to kick the robbers ass, in wich case my family gets a massive amount of cash.

[Oner]

I don't use creditcards myself, I - guess what? :D - prefer handling cash!

 

I find cash much too risky. Lose that and I'm without recourse.

Forget your credit card code (and lose the note) and you're ...uh, me.

Luckily, my sis works at the same bank. : x

[Thorton_AP]

I am definitely not insured against getting robbed. Even if I did, I'd probably put a deductible on it that would minimize my premium.

 

 

Maybe it's more crazy in Europe, but whenever I have issues with my accounts being blocked or compromised, I've always been able to get it back. /shrug

[Azdeus]

My parents took a crazy life insurance policy out for me that basically covered everything that could happen to me, while still getting an impressive rate on it. *Shrug*

 

I know of one person that was killed in my hometown, actually murdered - and that was over 15 years ago. It's a safe place to live in, so I am not particularly worried about anything worse than some vandalism happening to me. (Has happened once.)

[LadyCrimson]

Privacy or security issues are always a risk (credit cards, as mentioned, among a million other things) but that doesn't mean we have to take extra risks just cause that's the way it is. ie, I have credit cards but I rarely use them and I rarely buy anything online, period. Not even w/PayPal/don't have a PayPal. Some ppl don't mind more potential risk via increasing exposure...some do. All there is to it.

 

P.S. I don't mind the privacy stuff in Steam myself. Or at least, that's not what kept me from using it. If you read the TOA's of most games and services, there's all kinds of that stuff in there. If you agree to use something, I pretty much assume it's part of the package, these days.

Edited July 16, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[Purkake]

The credit card thing is a non-issue, just use a single-use credit card, which you can get from your bank.

[Azdeus]

Privacy or security issues are always a risk (credit cards, as mentioned, among a million other things) but that doesn't mean we have to take extra risks just cause that's the way it is. ie, I have credit cards but I rarely use them and I rarely buy anything online, period. Not even w/PayPal/don't have a PayPal. Some ppl don't mind more potential risk via increasing exposure...some do. All there is to it.

 

P.S. I don't mind the privacy stuff in Steam myself. Or at least, that's not what kept me from using it. If you read the TOA's of most games and services, there's all kinds of that stuff in there. If you agree to use something, I pretty much assume it's part of the package, these days.

 

So what did keep you from it, if you don't mind me asking?

 

I'm just glad that TOA's are'nt legal here. Now I'm not 100% certain about that statement, since it was a few years ago I spoke to the lawwoman, but that might've changed.

 

The credit card thing is a non-issue, just use a single-use credit card, which you can get from your bank.

 

Not available to me, unemployed, and the bank has previously said they don't have such a thing. (Roughly 5 months ago)

[Purkake]

The credit card thing is a non-issue, just use a single-use credit card, which you can get from your bank.

 

Not available to me, unemployed, and the bank has previously said they don't have such a thing. (Roughly 5 months ago)

That's very sad, but it is an option for most people.

[Zoraptor]

I will get it for PC, i like Steam. I find it incredibly convenient..

Nothing personal intended, but...

 

See, this is the thing which really annoys me about these arguments. Nobody wants FNV not to be available on Steam at all. All that is wanted is that it isn't available only on Steam. Given that, I'm always tempted to reply to "Steam is awesome" posts by asking: OK, but do you like it so much that you think everyone on PC should be forced to use it? If your answer is no then your defence of Steam is irrelevant. If it's yes then- as Purkake would put it- fanbois_gonna_fan_.gif

Edited July 16, 2010 by Zoraptor

[LadyCrimson]

I'm not sure my bank has them either. They're big enough you'd think they would, but if they do, it must be buried in the bylines somewhere because I don't see it. You can get prepaid visa 'gift cards' but it's kind of a hassle for online use since you need to register it w/whoever you bought it from each time you get a new one.

 

I imagine they're handy....it's mostly the extra hassle I wouldn't like, including needing to know how much to put on the card to buy what you want each time..but my not liking that is no one's fault but my own.

 

So what did keep you from it, if you don't mind me asking?

I sorta explained that earlier in the thread a bit, but in essence:

 

1-not feeling like I own the product, I'm only "renting it". Must use Steam/be online to install game.

2-possibility of not being able to access games in the future. This applies to online-activation discs, too. It's a low chance, & I'll grudgingly tolerate it if it's a game I want super-bad, but I wouldn't want to spend 1000's on such games like I did pre-such.

3-don't play online/mulitplayer much so one of the main core appeals of Steam is a non-factor for me personally, thus accepting things I don't like in favor of gaining something else I do want doesn't work.

Edited July 16, 2010 by LadyCrimson

[Purkake]

I will get it for PC, i like Steam. I find it incredibly convenient..

Nothing personal intended, but...

 

See, this is the thing which really annoys me about these arguments. Nobody wants FNV not to be available on Steam at all. All that is wanted is that it isn't available only on Steam. Given that, I'm always tempted to reply to "Steam is awesome" posts by asking: OK, but do you like it so much that you think everyone on PC should be forced to use it? If your answer is no then your defence of Steam is irrelevant. If it's yes then- as Purkake would put it- fanbois_gonna_fan_.gif

Hey, I would use an actual gif!

[Zoraptor]

I've hit the traffic cap on my fast internet else I might have actually looked for one.

 

Until tomorrow when the cap resets just imagine some slave boy fanning Cleopatra with palm fronds while she reclines eating grapes.

[~Di]

I think suffice to say, for me, and maybe for Di/others, compulsory Steam is a major negative factor in considering whether to buy the game or not, in terms of both theory & practice.

 

F:NV would have been a 100% pre-order buy for me, now I'm still mulling it over. I'll probably get it in the end, but if I wasn't so enthusiastic about it, Steam would have killed the sale.

 

edit: btw, this kind of stuff I think grounds the fears about Steam. That survey alone isn't a big problem as it's voluntary/optional: but it's not the only thing, and moves like these make you wonder where Steam are looking and where they will end up going. Similar to how some people feel about Facebook.

 

For me, F:NV was a slam dunk, one game I was really looking forward to. But hey, we can't always have what we want, and to me Steam is a price I'm not willing to pay.

[Monte Carlo]

I have installed it. The game is rubbish.

 

Am exploring whether to uninstall it, but now Empires TW looks tempting.

Maybe you should do some research next time before you put money into the sand.

 

 

Yes, mum, will do.

[Purkake]

I think suffice to say, for me, and maybe for Di/others, compulsory Steam is a major negative factor in considering whether to buy the game or not, in terms of both theory & practice.

 

F:NV would have been a 100% pre-order buy for me, now I'm still mulling it over. I'll probably get it in the end, but if I wasn't so enthusiastic about it, Steam would have killed the sale.

 

edit: btw, this kind of stuff I think grounds the fears about Steam. That survey alone isn't a big problem as it's voluntary/optional: but it's not the only thing, and moves like these make you wonder where Steam are looking and where they will end up going. Similar to how some people feel about Facebook.

 

For me, F:NV was a slam dunk, one game I was really looking forward to. But hey, we can't always have what we want, and to me Steam is a price I'm not willing to pay.

That's too bad. Maybe when the game is out and you see all the other kids having fun with it, you'll come over to the dark side.

[Azdeus]

If I could, I'd get a steamfree version and mail the money. *Grumbles*

[Purkake]

You could also have someone else get the Steam version and play on their computer.

[Hurlshort]

I still don't get why you would deprive yourself of a game because it runs through Steam, particularly those who claim they are going to buy the console version instead. It is nonsensical because the consoles have been running their own versions of Steam for the last generation. You are signed in as soon as you turn the console on, you launch the game from their OS, and it keeps track of stuff whether you are online or not.

 

Currently I'm running Steam in offline mode. I've launched a few games with no issues. I've tried to disconnect my internet mid-game, I've even started it in offline mode. It has run smoothly the whole time. I'll admit, Steam had its problems with the offline mode originally, but they seem to be a thing of the past.

 

So I don't get it. It seems like Steam DRM is less obstrusive than Starforce and all that last-gen stuff. It is easy to exit out of Steam, and it makes patching games easy (but not required.)

 

In terms of ownership, it is again just like a console. What happens if Sony or Microsoft decide to shut down all of their servers? You are going to have trouble playing your game, just like if Steam shuts down. But the likelihood of that happening is super tiny, and if that did happen, there would probably be a quick fix in a matter of hours.

 

It just seems like a lot of bluster.

[Thorton_AP]

In terms of ownership, it is again just like a console. What happens if Sony or Microsoft decide to shut down all of their servers? You are going to have trouble playing your game, just like if Steam shuts down. But the likelihood of that happening is super tiny, and if that did happen, there would probably be a quick fix in a matter of hours.

 

This isn't the case with the consoles. I bought several new games the past year and my 360 was no where near an internet connection at any point. Most games don't require you to ever log into XBOX Live (I assume the same goes for the PSN)

[Zoraptor]

The starforce thing is just plain wrong too. Sure, it might trash your optical drive but there's never been any indication of it monitoring what you were doing and reporting back to the mothership, let alone any other of the (far more popular than Starforce) disk check based systems- they never ask for internet connectivity.

 

Activation based systems are a bit closer, but even then none of them require an always running client.

 

And again the question is begged: Is Steam so good everyone should be forced to use it?