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I never played a game with health kits and said, "Man this game would be so much better if the game was automatically giving me free health every second whenever I needed it!"

 

That makes sense, because that would be a pretty dumb thing to think.

 

I've never played a game that automatically gave me free health every second whenever I needed it. Have you even played any game that has regenerating health? Because regenerating health isn't the god mode you seem to think it is.

 

Health is never "free". While health is no longer a limited resource in games with regeneration, losing it means giving up the advantage, needing to retreat and heal, giving your enemies the upper hand. This can be true in games that use health kits/stations as well, where I need to run away from any enemy and run over a kit that automatically fills my health bar, but contrary to popular opinion* in games with regenerating health your health does not regenerate while you are being damaged. Funnily enough, this isn't true of games that use health kits. In Deus Ex I can use health kits from the quick slots or from the paused status screen and heal myself even when taking damage.

 

*By popular opinion I mean whiny anti-regen crybabies.

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But Free Health is ripping the spine that is Immersion out and breaks it in two.


"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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I don't want to rain on the parade with regards to Deus Ex 3, but looking at those screenies all I see is the Crysis body armour, pumped-up FPS supa-weapons and spider-bots. Just like every other quasi, near-future FPS game.

 

I'm sure it'll be OK, but isn't it time for a bit of an aesthetic shift in games?


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But Free Health is ripping the spine that is Immersion out and breaks it in two.

 

So finding little boxes with red crosses on them that magically instantly patch you to full health is more immersive?

 

;)

 

I don't want to rain on the parade with regards to Deus Ex 3, but looking at those screenies all I see is the Crysis body armour, pumped-up FPS supa-weapons and spider-bots. Just like every other quasi, near-future FPS game.

 

I'm sure it'll be OK, but isn't it time for a bit of an aesthetic shift in games?

 

Probably what you'd see in screens of Deus Ex 1, as well? It's as a Deus Ex game is supposed to look! :)


You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that?

ahyes.gifReapercussionsahyes.gif

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But Free Health is ripping the spine that is Immersion out and breaks it in two.

So finding little boxes with red crosses on them that magically instantly patch you to full health is more immersive?

 

;)

Looks that way. They also support exploration (aka padding and backtracking looking for a small corridor that's only purpose in life is to contain a CLIPmagazine and a medkit).

"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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I've yet to find a game where waiting for my health to regen hampered me in any way. In Vegas 2, was pretty common to run out, get a burst of fire and almost die, cover and heal, while I killed the foe. Regenerating health does work in the DX setting, augmented human and all. When you're just some schmuck special forces guy, eh not so much.

 

In any event, Eidos claims (heh, right) that the health regen in the game will take a good bit of time to kick in.


Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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More than anything, regenerating health makes it much, much easier to design and balance levels. If you know that at start of each encounter that the player will be at max life, it means that it becomes much easier to balance that encounter.

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More than anything, regenerating health makes it much, much easier to design and balance levels. If you know that at start of each encounter that the player will be at max life, it means that it becomes much easier to balance that encounter.
And that ruins the C&C of acting stupid and engage the next room of enemies with low HP.

Also, hand holding.

 

 

 

In unrelated news, some people are making a graphical remake of Outcast and apparently a tech demo has been released. http://www.openoutcast.org/wp/

Edited by Oner

"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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So finding little boxes with red crosses on them that magically instantly patch you to full health is more immersive?

 

I think it's the tension that comes with putting yourself in a bad situation and having to find a way out of that, that people are really after. Regenerating health makes games a lot less frustrating but you lose some of the highs along with the lows.

Edited by Serrano

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but isn't it time for a bit of an aesthetic shift in games?

 

 

Yep.

 

Sadly, you, me, and a handful of cranky old gits don't count for much.


Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.

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but isn't it time for a bit of an aesthetic shift in games?

 

 

Yep.

 

Sadly, you, me, and a handful of cranky old gits don't count for much.

I think it's more of a change in the dynamics of developing than in the demand. Let's face it gamers will eat whatever shiny new crap comes next (I mean this with utmost respect possible) So there is not much need for change on part of the publisher and is easier for them to get on the wagon with a tried concept. In this matter a shift on perspective will do more good than anything.


I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"*

 

*If you can't tell, it's you. ;)

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That looks disappointing to me, which is unfortunate, I enjoyed RF:G.

 

Yeah, throwing aliens into the mix... Not so bad if you start out with it, but to do it now... Thats just a bit odd, like a big flag saying "We're out of idea's"


I came up with Crate 3.0 technology. 

Crate 4.0 - we shall just have to wait and see.

Down and out on the Solomani Rim
Now the Spinward Marches don't look so GRIM!


 

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Because human eyes are able to see that 20FPS difference... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....

 

all i see is Mac bashing... some people just can't get over the fact, that Mac owners are finaly able to play some small number of games...

 

and no i never had and never will have Mac...


Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH Latest Let's Play Pillars of Eternity Definitive Edition (in progress)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums - 19 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

 

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Because human eyes are able to see that 20FPS difference... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....

 

Actually they can.

Also that's not really the point. I also don't think they want to bash anyone, and if I had to find a target for some perceived bashing, it would be Valve, for not being capable of a perfect port.

Still, it seems like the performance differences are not as big as some other ports, so all in all, I'd still be pretty happy to be a Mac owner who plays with Steam (since I doubt that someone would buy a Mac for games, so the rapidly extending library is more like icing on the cake).

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Because human eyes are able to see that 20FPS difference... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....

 

Actually they can.

Also that's not really the point. I also don't think they want to bash anyone, and if I had to find a target for some perceived bashing, it would be Valve, for not being capable of a perfect port.

Still, it seems like the performance differences are not as big as some other ports, so all in all, I'd still be pretty happy to be a Mac owner who plays with Steam (since I doubt that someone would buy a Mac for games, so the rapidly extending library is more like icing on the cake).

 

Movies are presented in cinemas about 25FPS (cant remeber the exact number right now) And humans do not notice any hickups... So 60 or 90 FPS is for humans the same as 25 FPS... the only difference in games, in this FPS difference is, that the mouse is better responsive and has better performance with higher FPS...


Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH Latest Let's Play Pillars of Eternity Definitive Edition (in progress)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums - 19 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

 

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I never played a game with health kits and said, "Man this game would be so much better if the game was automatically giving me free health every second whenever I needed it!"

 

That makes sense, because that would be a pretty dumb thing to think.

 

I've never played a game that automatically gave me free health every second whenever I needed it. Have you even played any game that has regenerating health? Because regenerating health isn't the god mode you seem to think it is.

 

Health is never "free". While health is no longer a limited resource in games with regeneration, losing it means giving up the advantage, needing to retreat and heal, giving your enemies the upper hand. This can be true in games that use health kits/stations as well, where I need to run away from any enemy and run over a kit that automatically fills my health bar, but contrary to popular opinion* in games with regenerating health your health does not regenerate while you are being damaged. Funnily enough, this isn't true of games that use health kits. In Deus Ex I can use health kits from the quick slots or from the paused status screen and heal myself even when taking damage.

 

*By popular opinion I mean whiny anti-regen crybabies.

 

 

Sorry.

 

I misssed this. :(

 

Games that give you health while you stand around doign nothing is free health. Spit hairs of the definition of the word "free" if you want, regardless, the game is rewarding you for doing nothing.

 

WHat's next? An rpg that gives you XP for just standing around? You know, just in case the gamer is having difficulty. Wouldn't want them to get stuck or anything, after all. SO we'll just give them regenerating XP sp they can level up again and get on with the game. I mean, why not. It saves them the effort of actually having to go out in the gameworld and you know, do things.


Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.

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Because human eyes are able to see that 20FPS difference... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....

 

I guess you skipped the part where the actual quality was lesser as well; the "foggy" effect. Still, this is really Valve's fault, they had the exact same issues in the Portal release yet didn't bother to fix it for the Half Life 2 series.


"A little inaccuracy sometimes saves a ton of explanation."
-H. H. Munro

 

"Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum."

-Hurlshot

 

 

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Sorry.

 

I misssed this. :)

 

Games that give you health while you stand around doign nothing is free health. Spit hairs of the definition of the word "free" if you want, regardless, the game is rewarding you for doing nothing.

 

WHat's next? An rpg that gives you XP for just standing around? You know, just in case the gamer is having difficulty. Wouldn't want them to get stuck or anything, after all. SO we'll just give them regenerating XP sp they can level up again and get on with the game. I mean, why not. It saves them the effort of actually having to go out in the gameworld and you know, do things.

Yeah it's totally not like you have to, y'know, keep yourself alive with barely any hp while the enemy flanks and gangs up on you.

Also, dumb parallel.


"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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Because human eyes are able to see that 20FPS difference... RIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT....

 

Actually they can.

Also that's not really the point. I also don't think they want to bash anyone, and if I had to find a target for some perceived bashing, it would be Valve, for not being capable of a perfect port.

Still, it seems like the performance differences are not as big as some other ports, so all in all, I'd still be pretty happy to be a Mac owner who plays with Steam (since I doubt that someone would buy a Mac for games, so the rapidly extending library is more like icing on the cake).

 

Movies are presented in cinemas about 25FPS (cant remeber the exact number right now) And humans do not notice any hickups... So 60 or 90 FPS is for humans the same as 25 FPS... the only difference in games, in this FPS difference is, that the mouse is better responsive and has better performance with higher FPS...

 

Movies are 24fps. It's not that straightforward, though, sometimes you see jerkiness in pans etc., but most of us are so used to it we don't pay it any attention. Generally you'd be able to tell the difference between 24fps and 60fps material (the first seams "dreamier", the second more "realistic").


You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that?

ahyes.gifReapercussionsahyes.gif

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I believe yes, that 24 and 60 FPS you could tell the difference, if you have healthy brain and healthy brain, but i realy do not believe that 60 and 80FPS difference could be spotted by general population, without exceptional neural/brain activities...

Edited by Mamoulian War

Sent from my Stone Tablet, using Chisel-a-Talk 2000BC.

My youtube channel: MamoulianFH Latest Let's Play Pillars of Eternity Definitive Edition (in progress)

Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 1: Austria Grand Campaign (completed)
Let's Play/AAR Europa Universalis 2: Xhosa Grand Campaign (completed)
My PS Platinums - 19 games so far (my PSN profile)

 

 

1) God of War III - PS3 - 24+ hours

2) Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 130+ hours

3) White Knight Chronicles International Edition - PS3 - 525+ hours

4) Hyperdimension Neptunia - PS3 - 80+ hours

5) Final Fantasy XIII-2 - PS3 - 200+ hours

6) Tales of Xillia - PS3 - 135+ hours

7) Hyperdimension Neptunia mk2 - PS3 - 152+ hours

8.) Grand Turismo 6 - PS3 - 81+ hours (including Senna Master DLC)

9) Demon's Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

10) Tales of Graces f - PS3 - 337+ hours

11) Star Ocean: The Last Hope International - PS3 - 750+ hours

12) Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII - PS3 - 127+ hours

13) Soulcalibur V - PS3 - 73+ hours

14) Gran Turismo 5 - PS3 - 600+ hours

15) Tales of Xillia 2 - PS3 - 302+ hours

16) Mortal Kombat XL - PS4 - 95+ hours

17) Project CARS Game of the Year Edition - PS4 - 120+ hours

18) Dark Souls - PS3 - 197+ hours

19) Hyperdimension Neptunia Victory - PS3 - 238+ hours

 

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I never played a game with health kits and said, "Man this game would be so much better if the game was automatically giving me free health every second whenever I needed it!"

 

That makes sense, because that would be a pretty dumb thing to think.

 

I've never played a game that automatically gave me free health every second whenever I needed it. Have you even played any game that has regenerating health? Because regenerating health isn't the god mode you seem to think it is.

 

Health is never "free". While health is no longer a limited resource in games with regeneration, losing it means giving up the advantage, needing to retreat and heal, giving your enemies the upper hand. This can be true in games that use health kits/stations as well, where I need to run away from any enemy and run over a kit that automatically fills my health bar, but contrary to popular opinion* in games with regenerating health your health does not regenerate while you are being damaged. Funnily enough, this isn't true of games that use health kits. In Deus Ex I can use health kits from the quick slots or from the paused status screen and heal myself even when taking damage.

 

*By popular opinion I mean whiny anti-regen crybabies.

 

 

Sorry.

 

I misssed this. >_

 

Games that give you health while you stand around doign nothing is free health. Spit hairs of the definition of the word "free" if you want, regardless, the game is rewarding you for doing nothing.

 

WHat's next? An rpg that gives you XP for just standing around? You know, just in case the gamer is having difficulty. Wouldn't want them to get stuck or anything, after all. SO we'll just give them regenerating XP sp they can level up again and get on with the game. I mean, why not. It saves them the effort of actually having to go out in the gameworld and you know, do things.

 

I'm sorry but your argument doesn't make any sense.

 

How is having to retreat and stand around for your health to regenerate inferior to having to travel all the way out of a dungeon and back to town to buy health supplies? Essentially both of them are time sinks; both characters have the risk of running into enemies before they've fixed their health. Sure you could choose to go on and keep progressing in the hopes that you find a health kit, but you can also do the same with health regen and just hope that you regen more health than you lose in subsequent fights.

 

Seems to me the only difference is whether you get to push a shiny button to heal yourself or not.

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Personally, what I don't like with Deus Ex regenerating health is this essentially: no locational damage.

Or at least, they justified no locational damage with 'you can't do that with regen health'.

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