Fallout: New Vegas

[Flouride]

I just hope the NPCs are better written. I don't know why but there is something annoying with Beth's NPCs. It's just as if they were begging us to beat the crap out of them. Poorly written, shallow, unmemorable and unlikeable. There's not a single one that I like. And I am not the only one feeling that way...

 

Like it would be possible to actually write worse npcs than Bethesda comes up with...

[Slowtrain]

I just hope the NPCs are better written. I don't know why but there is something annoying with Beth's NPCs. It's just as if they were begging us to beat the crap out of them. Poorly written, shallow, unmemorable and unlikeable. There's not a single one that I like. And I am not the only one feeling that way...

 

Like it would be possible to actually write worse npcs than Bethesda comes up with...

 

 

Yeah, it's Bethesda's huge weakness. They have others as well of course, but this is the biggie: actually making the gameworld feel like it's filled with people, not just poorly written dialogue scripts.

 

That being said Fallout 3 was a gigantinormous step forward from the NPC horror of Oblivion.

 

Plus: this is Obs not Beth doing the writing. Improvement in this area is practicvally guaranteed.

[Darque]

Yeah, it's Bethesda's huge weakness. They have others as well of course, but this is the biggie: actually making the gameworld feel like it's filled with people, not just poorly written dialogue scripts.

 

That being said Fallout 3 was a gigantinormous step forward from the NPC horror of Oblivion.

 

Plus: this is Obs not Beth doing the writing. Improvement in this area is practicvally guaranteed.

 

Yeah, that's the main reason I put fallout 3 off for so long... couldn't believe how far advanced F3 was over Oblivion once I got into it.

[Zachariah Tam]

I am still pretty early in Fallout 3, but so far the writing hasn't been overly bad. It is no worse than what I have read in a typical paperback novel. Is Bioware's writing that much better? I have only done the Noble opening bit with Dragon Age.

[Sannom]

The Noble opening is really, really bad. Nothing interesting happens, the characters are bland, the consequences on the later game are even less than for the other origins, except the Dalish one.

[ramza]

I just hope the NPCs are better written. I don't know why but there is something annoying with Beth's NPCs. It's just as if they were begging us to beat the crap out of them. Poorly written, shallow, unmemorable and unlikeable. There's not a single one that I like. And I am not the only one feeling that way...

 

What profanity was there in my original post?

[Walsingham]

I just hope the NPCs are better written. I don't know why but there is something annoying with Beth's NPCs. It's just as if they were begging us to beat the crap out of them. Poorly written, shallow, unmemorable and unlikeable. There's not a single one that I like. And I am not the only one feeling that way...

I concur. On consideration I think NPCs should be written with reference to several points:

 

1. People change across time. Show them changing.

2. People get happy.

3. People get sad.

4. People get angry.

[the above are not computing/design intensive to show]

5. People find different things to be exciting, but they always perk up when it happens. Show this.

6. SHOW the relationship an NPC has towards the player through adjusting body language. It's not impossible. Most of the body language is already in the emotes for many games.

7. Everyone has connnection points which anyone can hook up to. Vices, interests, hobbies... even if you don't write it in, think about it. It's how conversations naturally run.

 

~~

 

I don't think spending effort on the above would be wasted, since it would cross apply to any RPG project.

[HoonDing]

It would be hilarious if in their next TES game, Bethesda would give M'aiq a few lines about people incessantly whining about their writing.

[tubgoatstugboats]

of all things to be upset about with fallout three i think i was upset about the most trivial, there was no spear, yes i know its petty but in past fallouts we saw there wasnt a lot of ammo for a while which makes sense since most likely they havent been in mass production in a while. The point being is you were handed a gun very early and after the start theres no need to use melee anymore unless its your preference.

[BicycleOfDeath]

I just hope the NPCs are better written. I don't know why but there is something annoying with Beth's NPCs. It's just as if they were begging us to beat the crap out of them. Poorly written, shallow, unmemorable and unlikeable. There's not a single one that I like. And I am not the only one feeling that way...

I concur. On consideration I think NPCs should be written with reference to several points:

 

1. People change across time. Show them changing.

2. People get happy.

3. People get sad.

4. People get angry.

[the above are not computing/design intensive to show]

5. People find different things to be exciting, but they always perk up when it happens. Show this.

6. SHOW the relationship an NPC has towards the player through adjusting body language. It's not impossible. Most of the body language is already in the emotes for many games.

7. Everyone has connnection points which anyone can hook up to. Vices, interests, hobbies... even if you don't write it in, think about it. It's how conversations naturally run.

 

~~

 

I don't think spending effort on the above would be wasted, since it would cross apply to any RPG project.

 

I would much rather have to read text and be able to be visually convinced through body language of the persons feelings than seeing a still body with voice acting. That's my preference, though. Combine the two and I'd probably crap myself. Not that that's really controllable anyway.

[Walsingham]

snipped

 

I would much rather have to read text and be able to be visually convinced through body language of the persons feelings than seeing a still body with voice acting. That's my preference, though. Combine the two and I'd probably crap myself. Not that that's really controllable anyway.

 

:ROFL:

 

I agree. On the other hand I get the impression most gamers don't read so fast. I second your incontinence if both could combine.

 

EDIT: Ooh! Ooh! i had an idea!

 

The more points you put in empathy the more people are seen to act out what they are thinking!

Edited March 14, 2010 by Walsingham

[mr insomniac]

But that forces you to put skill points into a skill you may not want to, in order to get some animation out of the people you are talking to.

[Walsingham]

But that forces you to put skill points into a skill you may not want to, in order to get some animation out of the people you are talking to.

 

 

You have to put points in athletics in order to move quicker.

[Zachariah Tam]

Instead of skills why not perks. Have them be a part of the conversational perks.

[Walsingham]

I just like the mechanic of teh game getting visibly more elaborate when you put in non combat skills. Makes for more of a roleplay feel.

 

Actually, come to that, you could represent low persuasion PCs by having them use inappropriate emotes, and looking blank. But high persuasion PCs would become more natural and adept.

[mr insomniac]

I dunno, I see a bit of a difference in putting points into athletics in order to move quicker and putting points in conversation/charisma in order to animate people when you talk to them. Making the game world seem more alive shouldn't be up to the player. Reactions by npcs to the player's choices should be present by default. Otherwise you're punishing someone for not wanting to be role-play a talker.

[Walsingham]

I dunno, I see a bit of a difference in putting points into athletics in order to move quicker and putting points in conversation/charisma in order to animate people when you talk to them. Making the game world seem more alive shouldn't be up to the player. Reactions by npcs to the player's choices should be present by default. Otherwise you're punishing someone for not wanting to be role-play a talker.

 

And at the same time delivering a potent message about the mental landscape of someone who guns down everything he sees.

 

I have no problem with this.

[mr insomniac]

I dunno, I see a bit of a difference in putting points into athletics in order to move quicker and putting points in conversation/charisma in order to animate people when you talk to them. Making the game world seem more alive shouldn't be up to the player. Reactions by npcs to the player's choices should be present by default. Otherwise you're punishing someone for not wanting to be role-play a talker.

 

And at the same time delivering a potent message about the mental landscape of someone who guns down everything he sees.

 

I have no problem with this.

Well that's a bit extreme. And yet, If a player chooses to roleplay a homicidal maniac, they should be able to see the fear reactions in the npcs' faces before they die, and not have them be mannequins that simply fall down when slain. That makes the game itself feel more alive.

 

As a hypothetical, I meet a guy slumped against a wall with a nasty radscorpion bite in the leg. He tells me of a rumour of some ancient wreckage out in the hills south of town, and if I heal him up he'll give me the map he's got stowed away in his pack. I can see the pain his face, I can hear it in his voice.

1 {Medicine} You really need some radaway to heal that.

2 {Pickpocket} Yoink

3 {Bluff/Threaten/Persuade} How about you give me the map first, then we'll talk stimpacks.

4 {Perception} But this map is your kid's worthless crayon drawing of a deathclaw!

5 {Psychotic} Nah, I'll just take the map. BLAM.

 

Not enough medicine? Can't tell he needs the radaway. Poor bugger dies anyway. Next time you're in town his kids throw rocks at you whenever you walk by.

Not enough pickpocketing? Hey buddy that's not the map.

Not enough perception? Can't tell he's really lying to you. The map sends you off hunting snipe until you starve to death in the wilderness.

Not enough conversation? You don't have have any stimpacks do you? Piss off.

 

No matter what I choose, I should still get to see as much animation from the guy as anyone else playing the game.

[Slowtrain]

Hmmm. Maybe we should push for a return of Oblivion's Magic Wheel o' Speaking.

 

Or was it a pie chart rather than a wheel?

 

 

Anyway, it was a high point for the game.

[I want teh kotor 3]

I never used it; I just bribed.

[Slowtrain]

I never used it; I just bribed.

 

 

You missed one of the most crucial and involving points around NPC interaction in the game.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Yeah, don't talk to the NPCs. Just kill them.

 

NO MORE MUDCRABS EVER!

[Enoch]

I never used it; I just bribed.

You missed one of the most crucial and involving points around NPC interaction in the game.

I just used the enchanting altar to create a 1-second-duration 100-strength charm spell. And then another spell that combined that effect with a 1-second self-targeting +100 Barter skill boost, for use when talking to shopkeepers. There were soooo many broken mechanics in that game.

[Killian Kalthorne]

Yeah, don't talk to the NPCs. Just kill them.

 

NO MORE MUDCRABS EVER!

[HoonDing]

NO MORE MUDCRABS EVER!