Fallout: New Vegas

[RPGmasterBoo]

fo3's world was a carnival ride of nonsensical encounters

 

I doubt there will be many farms and caravans in NV, though they really are integral to the world making sense (not to mention simply empty areas as is implied by the term wasteland). Canned food and such should be long gone by the time Fo: NV's plot is begun so farms and hunting geckos and whatnot are the only thing that makes sense.

I'd have nothing against a food mechanic tied to an endurance bar/attribute like in Stalker though I don't see it happening.

[Tigranes]

Who gives a **** if you know where the virtual food comes from in your virtual game world? Does that in any way affect your enjoyment of the game?

 

Basic verisimilitude has been understood to be quite important to one's enjoyment of media forms... unless you'd like to apply your tirade more logically?

 

It'd be nice if they did this properly, but I don't mind much unless it's blatantly weird.

[Syraxis]

remember the size of the farm in fo2 needed to feed modoc? that kinda **** is important for world building

 

What was powering the electricity for computers? Were there generators in FO3? I forget.

 

edit: grammar sucks tonight

Edited March 4, 2010 by Syraxis

[entrerix]

Who gives a **** if you know where the virtual food comes from in your virtual game world? Does that in any way affect your enjoyment of the game?

 

 

i'm assuming this is a joke?

 

of course it matters. You ever watched a movie with a HUGE gaping plothole that made the whole movie just feel stupid? it doesnt matter in tetris where the blocks come from, but you bet your ass it matters in a game like fallout

[mkreku]

Do you also care for where all the people you kill in games live? I mean, the Gothic games had one bed for every person in the game! Can you say that for any of the Fallouts? It is cool, yes, but does it really matter? I would not have thought less of Gothic if there had been a few beds missing, just as I don't give a **** where they got the food in Fallout 3.

 

Feel free to tell me exactly how this unexplained food problem distracts from your enjoyment of the game, Tigranes. It should make for some entertaining reading. You know, most people think of things like non-flying cows.. or basic laws of nature being consistent for everything in the game. That is when "verisimilitude" comes into effect, although I would simply call it believability.

[Tel Aviv]

I agree. The Normandy SR-2 has toilet//shower functionality. Why? They're never in use. They're not quest related. There's no romp to The Citadel to pick Mess Sergeant Gardner up some sink and plughole unblocker. It's a nice idea and if they've got the development time, sure. But it seems kinda a waste of time to me.

 

Honestly, I'm against toilets in all videogames ...possible exception, Duke Nukem 3D.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Tel Aviv

[Gorth]

I agree. The Normandy SR-2 has toilet//shower functionality. Why? They're never in use. They're not quest related.

It's there for the "immersion"

 

Nah, seriously. Sometimes it's all the little touches that adds that extra "realism" (within the game world) that makes a setting believable. No, I don't like food in games, Ive hated it since Nethack. But scenery that creates a functional environment, as in would probably work in the game world is not such an awful thing, is it?

[Tigranes]

Feel free to tell me exactly how this unexplained food problem distracts from your enjoyment of the game, Tigranes. It should make for some entertaining reading. You know, most people think of things like non-flying cows.. or basic laws of nature being consistent for everything in the game. That is when "verisimilitude" comes into effect, although I would simply call it believability.

 

The meaning of verisimilitude is believability, as far as this is concerned. I'm not sure I understand what you're saying with non-flying cows, btw, but I assume you are suggesting that food problem is trivial. I'm not sure how you can come to that conclusion, though, given that you do not seem to be applying a defined and appropriate standard to distinguish this. Ironically, flying cows, in certain gameworlds, would be a lot less weird than finding stores of perfectly edible food in a Fallout wasteland.

 

Put simply, world of Fallout, predicated on several hypothetical premises as it is, can hold up various 'unrealistic' things without a problem, i.e. Brahmin, because

(a) there is a plausible explanation, if not necessarily watertight (radioactive mutation), and

(b) it is consistent with the rest of the gameworld, with obvious effects of synergy on verisimilitude (everything else is bloody mutated).

 

Entering the big supermarket in FO3, for instance, and finding a buffet of food, fails on both accounts;

(a) there is no plausible explanation given, in fact no explanation is given, and

(b) it is not consistent with the rest of the gameworld when you've already seen people cry over food and water.

 

Finally, some violations of verisimilitude might be trivial because

(a) they are hard to notice unless you look out for them, or

(b) they provide a clearly sensible gameplay benefit that excuses the violation - the 'food problem' does neither.

 

Thus, it is an obviously weird and illogical piece of the game that breaks verisimilitude without providing any benefit. Thus we come to my conclusion, it doesn't have to be perfectly explained or hyper-realistic, it just has to be unnoticeable or paper-thin-plausible at least.

 

edit: that's some horribly loopy writing, sorry.

[jero cvmi]

Do you also care for where all the people you kill in games live? I mean, the Gothic games had one bed for every person in the game! Can you say that for any of the Fallouts? It is cool, yes, but does it really matter? I would not have thought less of Gothic if there had been a few beds missing, just as I don't give a **** where they got the food in Fallout 3.

 

Feel free to tell me exactly how this unexplained food problem distracts from your enjoyment of the game, Tigranes. It should make for some entertaining reading. You know, most people think of things like non-flying cows.. or basic laws of nature being consistent for everything in the game. That is when "verisimilitude" comes into effect, although I would simply call it believability.

I think it depends on the game, your expectations and what you're comaparing it with.

 

I didn't care what Nazis ate in Wolfenstein 3D, and i wouldn't enjoy it any more if i knew.

 

But fallout's setting has a theme where survival of communities and scarcity of recources after a nuclear war play a central role. If a game (or a film or a book) had some humans, mutants and robots in a radioactive desert, providing some explanation on how they survive there is important if you want to call it a "post-nuclear" game/film/book, because it is inevitable to compare it with others of the same genre that do it.

 

The first example that comes to mind is the crop rotation dialogue in shady sands, that was awesome because it added to the survival theme. I think it would be boring if the game was set in another universe.

[mkreku]

Like I predicted. Hilarious.

 

Read what you just wrote and try to apply some of that critical thinking of yours on any aspect of Fallouts gameworld and you'll see that this food thing is just yet another of the grasping-at-straws to find yet another thing where Fallout 3 must suck in comparison to the older games.

[Tigranes]

Btw, do we have actual eating/drinking in game? That'd be silly, even for Fallout.

 

It'd be pretty awesome to be able to see people go around taking sips from flasks or gathering water from a well (or GECK supply or something) with the FO3 graphics/perspective though. Depends on how rebuilt Vegas is.

[Pop]

But fallout's setting has a theme where survival of communities and scarcity of recources after a nuclear war play a central role.

I don't know where you're getting this. Community survival missions in the Fallouts are macguffins, generally - Through them, you stumble upon the real threat. Super Mutants, Enclave, etc. There are a few "secure water / gold / power" quests, but they have little or no bearing on the actual survival of a community. Fallouts aren't really about surviving in the wasteland, most people in the game seem to get by more or less fine. They're about defeating the Big Bad, same as any other game.

[Oner]

Tigranes:There's thirst in Hardcore Mode.

If you're talking about NPCs, then I don't know.

 

There are a few "secure water / gold / power" quests, but they have little or no bearing on the actual survival of a community.

This part doesn't make sense. Especially since many towns are abandoned in the end because they couldn't support themselves. Edited March 5, 2010 by Oner

[jero cvmi]

But fallout's setting has a theme where survival of communities and scarcity of recources after a nuclear war play a central role.

I don't know where you're getting this. Community survival missions in the Fallouts are macguffins, generally - Through them, you stumble upon the real threat. Super Mutants, Enclave, etc. There are a few "secure water / gold / power" quests, but they have little or no bearing on the actual survival of a community. Fallouts aren't really about surviving in the wasteland, most people in the game seem to get by more or less fine. They're about defeating the Big Bad, same as any other game.

 

Main quests are about defeating the "Big Bad" like in most rpgs, but how different communities survive is hinted constantly, from the importance of water and safety from raiders and scavengers to politics and how different communities perceive law and order. Maybe you can see these as background stuff, but they're good enough to justify the "Post nuclear" in Fallout's title.

[roch]

food in FO3 is not a bad idea, actually playing with it in FWE (primary needs), kind of changes a way U look at molerats and other edible spieces, especially with robco portable grill but eating should not oblige PC to performing some tamagotchi practics on himself but being more elusive but still crucial, like having a food and water in inwentory and auto-eat on rest, the need to rest should be as well and inobtrusive, some audio like stomach grumbling should made player think about taking a rest and slightly bloored vision or colors occasionaly would signal extreme fatigue, if ignored leading to penalties, and hunting for some rare but really nourishing animal that may fuel player for a longer time might be really nice.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Like I predicted. Hilarious.

 

Read what you just wrote and try to apply some of that critical thinking of yours on any aspect of Fallouts gameworld and you'll see that this food thing is just yet another of the grasping-at-straws to find yet another thing where Fallout 3 must suck in comparison to the older games.

 

There is nothing hilarious about it. Post apocalypse practically as a rule tries to show how a society functions after major disaster. That's the point. Fo1 and 2 didn't go into extreme detail but the setup they had was, in general, plausible.

 

Fo3's wasn't. It was a jumbled bunch of nonsense thrown together in the exact same way fantasy role playing games are made. While you can go into all sorts of excess when fantasy is concerned because there are very few genre restrictions - post-apocalypse isn't like that. Even if you don't want to show how the world functions at the very least you can imply it in some way.

 

Fo3 says: NO. I'll just dump a village here, a city built around an atomic bomb there, five minutes from that a legion of ogres with miniguns that have enough ammunition for a perpetual war with dudes in metal power armor and laser rifles they seem to leave lying around everywhere. Make sure none of them have anything humorous or intelligent to say - as long as they die in really entertaining ways no one will notice. Splatter enough NPC's around for the wasteland to look really populated (wait, wot?), and make sure there are people doing history tours and writing survival guides around - because there is really nothing better to do after the world ends.

[jaguars4ever]

I agree. The Normandy SR-2 has toilet//shower functionality. Why? They're never in use. They're not quest related.

It's there for the "immersion"

It's not immersion, it's a load of s***.

 

Now give me a game where you can dunk a bitch's head into the toilet bowl & flush it ala Arnie in T3, and then we'll have immersion.

 

[HoonDing]

I vote for a game called The Sims 5: Post-Nuclear Wasteland.

[Gorgon]

Fallout was always over the top. Realism is not really an issue for immersion I think.

 

It's just too bad this installment is going to be 'family safe' as well, relatively speaking.

 

I'm pretty sure you won't be able to turn tricks or become a pornstar this time around.

[Atom523]

While Fallout and Fallout 2 did have some quest revolving around basic survival most towns seemed to be past that in their development. Broken Hills was the only real town that had to be abandoned due to lack of resources in the end. Did they actually explain how the Hub had so much water? Was it a well or water towers? I forget actually it has been a while since I played Fallout 1. I know Fallout 2 had that town where you had to form an alliance between the town and the gang that controlled the farms because the town was starving and if you didn't make them friends they fought over the farm. Then again they had towns like New Reno, and San Fransisco which had no visible methods of sustaining their populations. At least NCR had land to the south you couldn't see where allegedly all their farms and technical areas were at.

 

Fallout 3 did fail when it came to explaining how certain towns survived, i mean there were pretty much no farms anywhere so unless every town was a hunting and gathering community it made no sense.

Then again for the kind of game Fallout 3 was there wasn't really that much of a need, it was a shooter with RPG aspects while Fallout with an RPG that had guns in it. They are both fun to play but for different reasons.

Am I hoping that New Vegas has more of the older style to it? Yes I am actually, but I should still have fun regardless i like most of Obsidian games.

Edited March 5, 2010 by Atom523

[Niten_Ryu]

I like small details like working toilets and beds for each NPC in games but I understand that development time and budget are limited. GTA 4 had budget of 100 million dollars and it did have nice amount of "fluff" but even that game had plenty of cardboard windows and doors what you can't interact in any way (and also have really bad texture resolution).

 

Speaking of ME2 toilet. I did use it after each longer mission because of roleplaying purposes. Come back from mission, take shower, use toilet, normal cloths, feed hamster and fish, write report, check emails, talk to Liara via extranet, go to crewdeck, chat with crew, eat something, go to sleep / take nap. Now what if captains cabin would have been old skool 3x3 room with nothing in it. I'd probably go to sleep in it but most likely wouldn't think of other activites. In ye olde text game would describe the room and I'd probably do the activities as I did now.

 

<use shower>

Your cloths are now wet

 

Damn it!

 

<remove cloths>

You're naked

 

<use shower>

You feel fresh!

 

<use toilet>

Don't forget to flush

 

<flush toilet>

unknown command 'flush'

 

What the...

 

<use toilet>

You flush the toilet

 

I think I prefer games today. At least actions are much faster if you just use your imagination even if you can't directly interact with all items.

[Oner]

take shower, use toilet, write report, talk to Liara via extranet,

Stop messing with my heeaaad!

[WDeranged]

I've been replaying Oblivion recently, trying to finally exorcise the demon and put that game to bed once and for all, anyway, it's striking me how believable the fantasy world of Cyrodil is compared to the quasi-realistic wasteland of Fallout 3. There's farms all over the place, hunters gathering meat, people regularly moving between settlements and generally more of the things you would expect to see in the real world.

 

Fallout 3 as it has been noted really doesn't make a jot of sense when you look at it from a logical point of view, practically everything about the game was chosen for the fun or coolness factor, which isn't necessarily bad, I enjoy Fallout 3 as a game far more than Oblivion but after several playthroughs these bubble encapsulated communities start to grate on my nerves...though, I saw a mudcrab the other day, nasty little blighters.

[HoonDing]

I can understand why no one wants to farm in the Capital Wasteland, when around level 20 Deathclaws start to appear outside Megaton.

[Gorgon]

Farmers are lv 0. All they encounter are radscorpions.