The Age of New DRM

[Purkake]

I think its better for taking the "pulse" of the gamers than the review sites *shrugs*

And I strongly disagree, it's just another cesspit like IGN or Gamespot's user reviews, but with it's own peculiar little twist(the little rivalry that I mentioned above).

 

You're grasping at straws. Come back when a next-gen AAA game's sequel sells less than the previous one.

Edited February 1, 2010 by Purkake

[zerexaki]

Jesus wheeze hoi polloi.

 

1) Pirating a game = stealing

2) DRM does not reduce piracy significantly; it might reduce some but it also increases some

 

Can't we stick this up as some sort of canon, then move on? why start it all over again? Nobody here said they'll pirate games, why begin the argument about 'entitlements'?

 

I would say that DRM (online activation, limited installs) doesn't reduce piracy at all and actually increases piracy. I know quite a few people who would buy all their games but now pirate because of the new DRM measures. They were okay with serial and disk checks but the online activation and limited installs is what pushed them into pirating. They still buy games that have a simple serial or disk check - anything more than that and they pirate.

 

And we're not talking about teenagers or people that don't have money. I'm talking about professionals with good paying jobs that have had enough of the DRM.

[RPGmasterBoo]

You're grasping at straws. Come back when a next-gen AAA game's sequel sells less than the previous one.

 

By that time it will be too late.

 

Its more fun being a prophet than saying I told you so.

 

Which I'll happily do anyway

[Purkake]

If that actually happens I'll happily admit that you were right and I was wrong.

 

Now I guess we'll wait.

 

 

Just in time for another piracy discussion.

 

Edited February 1, 2010 by Purkake

[RPGmasterBoo]

Just in time for another piracy discussion.

 

[Tigranes]

@Tig: I meant that the console gamers still see PC gaming as nerds in basements, not the general public.

 

Oh, my bad.

[Solo]

OK I think I can see the issues with PC vs Consoles.

 

Forget about the people and look at the equipment one needs to play games.

 

The PC does have more power than consoles.

Consoles have better ways of playing games than the PC.

 

Now many are waving their hands up at that last crack. The reason I say this is this. The console has all it needs to play the games and only the software writers need to do is make it work on that console. The PC has all kinds of issues because not everybody has the same equipment as the other. The PC needs this CPU and speed along with this video card and video merory. Hard drive space with memory of the PC needed to be very high.

 

Granted game play is limited on the console but can be tweeked to run better and be more gameable if the Devs choose so. The PC game market is set to run on the highest and best equipment with little regards as to others who have good systems to start with in the beginning. What is so important about FP that it takes so much resources that the average user has to always upgrade just to play? Back in the old days when Commodore, Atari, Tandy, IBM, and Mac were all very good for games. The consoles then were the Atari 2600 and upward, Nintendo, Collico, and some others I forget. Point being to this mini rant is that mojority of the games were made for them. You choosed what you wanted to play. Yes some games did not get ported or made for the others but you had your choice. I think since all this exclusive mombo jumbo BS should go. That is one reason for the lack of ideas and creative movements because most of the Devs are locked into one system to build.

 

So until fair play on both sides are done we can't really say for sure one way or the other which is the best. I have the Wii and love it for what it does. I also have a PS2. More than likely until the PS3 has a better price and better games for me to waste my money on. I'm not buying it. The PS2 best part was it could play PS games. The new version of PS3 cannot play PS and PS2 games. The XBox360 now has a way to play older Xbox games so I may think about it even though I don't like M$. It does have a lot of games that I cannot play because the owners of the titles did not make a version for the other systems.

And some times when they do (case point DA for the Mac) they make crippled software that falls way behind what was originally made.

 

So all this talk about what system is better is moot when the games cannot be played on all the systems now a days. Until that happens then maybe we can say and see better.

 

I'm half a sleep from not resting well and my last class really wore me out. So if I'm not clear to understand. Be nice and say so.

 

Thanks to all for reading this chicken scratch of mine.

[RPGmasterBoo]

You're disqualified for being from Japan.

[Purkake]

We weren't actually arguing over which one was "best", we were arguing over whether the PC will rise up as a relevant platform or not.

 

Also I didn't know the "M$" joke was still around, it's a really bad one in any case.

[Hurlshort]

About the Wii, an entire generation of gamers is growing up playing that thing. It's a huge part of the future gaming scene.

[Purkake]

I thought the growing generation was all playing Halo and screeching obscenities into their headsets while all the adults are playing Wii Sports or Wii Fit.

[Oner]

I thought the growing generation was all playing Halo and screeching obscenities into their headsets while all the adults are playing Wii Sports or Wii Fit.

We could set up a service, you can rent people to scream at and mock on ventri/TS. We'd be stinking rich I tell you!

[Solo]

@boo.

 

Foul.

 

Just because Japan gets some of the RPG's before other parts of the world does should not exclude my meanless rants on here.

 

Or was that crack directed at something else?

[Nightshape]

This is all personal opinion.

 

If I came into your house, sat at your table, ate your food, took a dump in your toilet, slept in your bed and then dressed myself in your clothes, would I be doing anything wrong? I imagine all the people who took offense to my commenting that piracy is theft really wouldn't mind, afterall, they won't have locks on their doors! So yes, I'm definately going to help myself to a beer!

 

Seriously, I'm old enough and grizzled enough to realise that there are only 2 kinds of people in the world the DRM bothers, cheapskate unemployed dole monkey pirates ( you can swap this out for student if you'd like, it's interchangeable), and paranoid computer geeks who genuinely believe the world should be running linux and don't understand why we're all left using windows, because teh command line is awesome boys. I'm willing the bet that most of those who are doing the whining about DRM are one or the other.

 

The average user genuinely doesn't care, hasn't been affected by, or even remotely noticed that DRM exists. More often than not, it doesn't cause a problem at all. The funny thing is, when Codemasters release OFP:DR (regardless of what you think of the game) it had no CD key, it had no DRM past a CD check, there was an uproar because people instantly feared, hackers, and cracked users coming and spoiling the online experience. Fact is you can't win, someone somewhere is going to get upset about it because that's what internet people do.

 

I can see a downloadable future, where everything is kind of like steam, even on consoles, except you won't have an offline mode! You'll have to connect to a server in the bowels of the company offices be that EA, or Ubisoft to even begin to see the loading screen, in effect all games single player will require a connection for authentication. Or worse, all games will be streamed via video using services like OnLive.

 

Piracy and second hand sales have driven the industry in this direction. I'll be honest, I don't see how the industry is likely to continue to grow if they don't.

 

To put this in a way people may understand easily, you see what Bethesda did with Fallout 3? Where they pissed off a hardcore group of fan's knowing they'd secure a larger fanbase regardless? Yeah, DRM haters, you're like those guys from NMA, and RPG codex, nobody is listening, because they don't have to.

 

Do you really think that in a few years time when Infinity Ward is releasing their next Quake 3 mod, that if such DRM was in place it would effect sales dramatically enough to ensure that it wouldn't make ANY money. Come on now?

[zerexaki]

[Mamoulian War]

@Nightshape: It will when people notice, that they can't play their games, because snowstorm, their dog or E.T. has eaten their internet cables...

 

and no, pirates and 2nd hand sales did not forced you to go this way, it was only your paranoia and greed... If it were the case, we would be all wearing Nike/<insert your favourite brand> shoes with blood sampler which will ensure that it can be only worn when your DNA matches it record, to ensure that we can't resell them or some naughty chinese bootlegers will not copy them... they are just not that stupid to drive away their customers, like you are doing it...

 

Used sales drive the industry... Upper class buys new originals, middle class sells their used stuff to be able to afford new originals, lower class buys used or bootlegs...

 

Cut off the middle class from their ability to resell and you loose most of your customers... Unless you are willing to sell your games for 10-15EUR... Because in this economic times, paying 50-60EUR for a non-essential good, which can't be used as people wish is ridiculous...

Edited February 1, 2010 by Mamoulian War

[Monte Carlo]

This is all personal opinion.

 

If I came into your house, sat at your table, ate your food, took a dump in your toilet, slept in your bed and then dressed myself in your clothes, would I be doing anything wrong? I imagine all the people who took offense to my commenting that piracy is theft really wouldn't mind, afterall, they won't have locks on their doors! So yes, I'm definately going to help myself to a beer!

 

Seriously, I'm old enough and grizzled enough to realise that there are only 2 kinds of people in the world the DRM bothers, cheapskate unemployed dole monkey pirates ( you can swap this out for student if you'd like, it's interchangeable), and paranoid computer geeks who genuinely believe the world should be running linux and don't understand why we're all left using windows, because teh command line is awesome boys. I'm willing the bet that most of those who are doing the whining about DRM are one or the other.

 

The average user genuinely doesn't care, hasn't been affected by, or even remotely noticed that DRM exists. More often than not, it doesn't cause a problem at all. The funny thing is, when Codemasters release OFP:DR (regardless of what you think of the game) it had no CD key, it had no DRM past a CD check, there was an uproar because people instantly feared, hackers, and cracked users coming and spoiling the online experience. Fact is you can't win, someone somewhere is going to get upset about it because that's what internet people do.

 

I can see a downloadable future, where everything is kind of like steam, even on consoles, except you won't have an offline mode! You'll have to connect to a server in the bowels of the company offices be that EA, or Ubisoft to even begin to see the loading screen, in effect all games single player will require a connection for authentication. Or worse, all games will be streamed via video using services like OnLive.

 

Piracy and second hand sales have driven the industry in this direction. I'll be honest, I don't see how the industry is likely to continue to grow if they don't.

 

To put this in a way people may understand easily, you see what Bethesda did with Fallout 3? Where they pissed off a hardcore group of fan's knowing they'd secure a larger fanbase regardless? Yeah, DRM haters, you're like those guys from NMA, and RPG codex, nobody is listening, because they don't have to.

 

Do you really think that in a few years time when Infinity Ward is releasing their next Quake 3 mod, that if such DRM was in place it would effect sales dramatically enough to ensure that it wouldn't make ANY money. Come on now?

 

You work in the industry. Your condescending tone towards those with whom you disagree is therefore telling.

 

For the record I'm an information technology halfwit. I run mainstream MS applications, I discovered Firefox last week and I certainly don't live in my basement.

 

I simply don't want to need to connect to the internet to play games. For example, my wife works from home half the time. She uses the household internet connection. If I'm here too it's no biggie because I can play offline. Offline play also (and this is so obvious it says a great deal about your argument that I need to mention it) doesn't rely on the efficacy of servers run by the gaming companies. Relic's were FUBAR most of yesterday, for example, Sunday (y'know, the day off a lot of us like to game on).

 

Your post earns a C- from this callsign. The companies are using online as a new, salami-slicing revenue stream. End of.

[Mamoulian War]

Offline play also (and this is so obvious it says a great deal about your argument that I need to mention it) doesn't rely on the efficacy of servers run by the gaming companies. Relic's were FUBAR most of yesterday, for example, Sunday (y'know, the day off a lot of us like to game on).

 

God forbid, we would want to play our games in other time, than that was decided by the INDUSTRY!!!

[Tigranes]

I'm not sure why Nightshape continues to persist with this 'hardcore gamer vs. average joe ignoramus' distinction. It's not backed up and it is almost certainly too extreme a form of categorisation.

[Oner]

I'm gonna pitch a thought, see what happens:

Sometimes when I can't be arsed to go watch a movie I'm interested in, I ask one of my friends who saw it about the plot.

So... why don't I pay a fine for getting info on the plot -which is an important part of a movie-, the freeloading conscienceless scum that I am? /sarcasm

[Tigranes]

Sorry, but that's just a bad comparison.

[Oner]

Wouldn't be the first one in this thread.

[Monte Carlo]

I dunno, maybe it's only a matter of time before the movie companies start agitating for disc checks and online technologies to validate DVD purchases... this is another issue.

 

You buy content online, i.e. a game, piece of music or a movie --- then you expect all sorts of mildly invasive technology to kick in to authorise payment and download. But a physical copy? Why?

 

Piracy is as big an issue for the movie and music industries. Their approach, interestingly, is different from that of the gaming industry. In the UK, the Federation Against Copyright Theft (FACT) has become a quasi-law enforcement / regulatory body that does good work in this respect with a light touch. I guess enforcement is hard work, especially in the online arena.

 

Screwing over customers, OTOH, isn't. It's easy. The gaming industry wants us to believe that they are using online as a tool against piracy as opposed to revenue gathering. Isn't it a happy coincidence that their anti-piracy strategy is also profitable, and damn those honest gamers who bought the product?

[Humodour]

Let's not pretend that PC gaming is anywhere as relevant as console gaming aside from flash games, facebook games and MMOs.

 

It's every bit near as relevant and it's absolutely disingenuous to make statements like that. The PC gaming market is bigger than the market of any single console (especially if we consider the whole international community and not just America), and I'm not even talking flash games or MMOs. Sure, PC gaming is dead in America - whatever, let's roll with that. The Europeans make better games anyway.

 

Heck, if PC gaming is dead, somebody forgot to tell every single dormie or uni student I know who is into gaming (of any kind, on any platform). I constantly see jocks playing computer games (and girls seem to be pretty fond of WoW). I constantly get called out to de-virus their computers and whatnot so they can play their computer games. Maybe this is a biased sample, because it's pretty much guaranteed that every uni student in Australia has a computer, but within this little sample at least, people are happy to use that computer to play games.

 

paranoid computer geeks who genuinely believe the world should be running linux and don't understand why we're all left using windows, because teh command line is awesome boys.

 

Mainstream Linux distributions (e.g. not Slackware or many of the dead ones) haven't placed an emphasis on the command line in perhaps 10 years you uninformed git. Gosh it's sad that you're in the games industry now. What's more disturbing is that you've adopted the bog standard publisher line of "second-hand games are evil". Oh go on!

Edited February 1, 2010 by Krezack

[Gorgon]

Let's not pretend that PC gaming is anywhere as relevant as console gaming aside from flash games, facebook games and MMOs.

 

Also WoW is hardly immune to piracy, it just works slightly differently with that.

You need a cracked game and a cracked server. How many of the people who play there bought WOW and played it legally at some point, I'll throw out an unsubstantiated number 90% or so. Mmorphegers are not seriously hit by piracy compared to single player games, and this always online deal is obviously an attempt to mimic them.