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^ You've simply identified the paradox Bioware trapped themselves in with Dragon Age. For Bio, 'story-driven' means extremely linear --- the choices are illusory. Then, to make things worse they tried to make the Grey Wardens all things to all men to square this circle --- badass destroyers of evil (if that's your thing) or paladin-esque upholders of good (ditto).

 

Alistair is the fly in that ointment, he's easily one of the most annoying NPCs they've ever written.

 

It would have been easier to put 'evil' characters under some sort of geas and make them defeat the Darkspawn by hilariously evil means. It would have been more fun than the plot mish-mash and inconsistencies you describe.


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zazei,

 

The Grey Wardens were kicked out of Ferelden and there hasn't been a Blight in 400 years. Most people only know GW as shining knights who ride gryphons. Alistiar is a dreamer who never really had to absorb what being a GW was about. Listen to him talk about the Wardens in the Anderfels - where the HQ is and where they've stood vigil since the First Blight - he talks about how hard and cold they are and how he couldn't relate to them.

 

Is he 'Warden' material? He surived the Joining, can fight well, and can follow orders. That's all Duncan asked of him, and that's about all he's good for.


"When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.

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zazei,

 

The Grey Wardens were kicked out of Ferelden and there hasn't been a Blight in 400 years. Most people only know GW as shining knights who ride gryphons. Alistiar is a dreamer who never really had to absorb what being a GW was about. Listen to him talk about the Wardens in the Anderfels - where the HQ is and where they've stood vigil since the First Blight - he talks about how hard and cold they are and how he couldn't relate to them.

 

Is he 'Warden' material? He surived the Joining, can fight well, and can follow orders. That's all Duncan asked of him, and that's about all he's good for.

 

It get that in some ways but there is where the bad Warden thing comes in. Anyway I wouldn't have minded him as a romantic at all if there was a chance to discuss it with him. My favorite origin is as a dwarf and then the player comes from a city that has struggled against dark spawn in a lost fight ever since the first blight and I never got the chance to point out any of this to Alistair through the game or even mention it. I would like to argue that side of the grey wardens with him but I was never given the choice. As a castless as well I would like to point out to him there is a lot worse ways to live then what the the chances he got. Besides he doesn't follow orders well when it comes to doing the dirty work. He might not leave the group but I imagine when it was over and he had to start get along with the other grey wardens from maybe Anderfels or the like (where do he talk about this?) he might decide to leave as well if he can't ever accept that bad people will join their ranks.

Duncan from what I heard murdered a Grey Warden before he joined

 

 

 

Despite what he may say he often comes of as a spoiled bastard prince to the king for me when I play anything but the human noble origin

 

Edited by zazei

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Ungh, don't mention talking with NPCs about your origin story, the memories make shudder even today. "Oh, you lost your parents, I'm sorry I bought this up, you probably don't want to talk about it." YES I WANT DOUCHEBAG, I'm not allowed to give some ****ing exposition?

Hey, hey, PC person, listen to my overly long and sad backstory! Oh, your backstory is even sadder? Who cares, you're my emotional trashcan.


"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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Ungh, don't mention talking with NPCs about your origin story, the memories make shudder even today. "Oh, you lost your parents, I'm sorry I bought this up, you probably don't want to talk about it." YES I WANT DOUCHEBAG, I'm not allowed to give some ****ing exposition?

Hey, hey, PC person, listen to my overly long and sad backstory! Oh, your backstory is even sadder? Who cares, you're my emotional trashcan.

 

:lol::lol::lol:

 

Yes this. I mean I remember a long conversation with Morrigan about her family and then at the end she ask about the PC's mother. I responded with the origin thing about her being a useless drunk and Morrigan go "Oh, sorry to hear that. I'm going to stop talking now but feel free to come back and listen to me talk about my history anytime you want". Well something like that in any case. I want to a chance to explore or talk about my origin as well you know. Even Kotor II was better then this in some ways, Bioware doesn't seem to get that our own characters might be worth exploring beyond a short interduction tutorial. >_>

 

It's sad that while returning to Orzmaar as Castless none but Morrigan ever comment on the fact that everyone we meet insult the PC and only thing she say is that our mothers are not all that different. -_-

Edited by zazei

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Not all GWs are alike. No doubt there is a mix of them. It's not like one's personality is automatically changed after the joining. So, Alistair is your typicval 'paladin'. Big deal. Duncan's focus is one dimensional on the plaugue. Big deal. The fact people try to paint all GW as exactly the same no matter what is silly. Not all GWs need to have that narrowm focus where the end justifies the means no matter what. It's absolutely silly to think so.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Return to Ostigar is now available for XBox and should be available for PC at the end of the day. PS3 is TBA.

 

Interestingly, Chris, the community coordinator, said that its release was 'unexpected.' Given that the current release date was sometime in February, I wonder what happened there.


"When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.

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Return to Ostigar is now available for XBox and should be available for PC at the end of the day. PS3 is TBA.

 

Interestingly, Chris, the community coordinator, said that its release was 'unexpected.' Given that the current release date was sometime in February, I wonder what happened there.

 

Wondering if that leak had something to do with it... :/ Anyway, as no PS3, not even an option for me, and if I get ME2 before the PS3 version surfaces, might not be on the menu for a while...


You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that?

ahyes.gifReapercussionsahyes.gif

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Hello Dragon Age fans

 

This morning a title update on the Xbox 360 for Dragon Age: Origins was made available in preparation for the release of Return to Ostagar. This title update introduced a previously undetected issue that causes specialization classes to not work correctly in Dragon Age: Origins. We are removing Return to Ostagar from Xbox Live until the issue is resolved and are recommending that you do not download the title update. If you have already performed the update, we apologize for this and are working hard to ensure a fix is available as soon as possible.

 

We will provide more information to you when it is available.

 

DA:O

 

Delayed Again: Ostagar.

Edited by Maria Caliban

"When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.

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This DLC thing is marvellous, why didn't they QA it properly then bundle it as an extra with the XP and charge a couple of dollars more?


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Heck if I know.

 

A big spoiler about what happened at Ostigar and why it happened then is in the DLC though:

 

 

Turns out Calian was considering kicking Anora to the curb as he believed she was barren, and marrying the Empress Celene I of Orlais, with whom he was having an affair. This would likely lead Ferelden to become part of the Orlesian empire.

 

Edited by Maria Caliban

"When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.

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You know, if that had been in the game from the beginning, the story would have much more sense.

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This DLC thing is marvellous, why didn't they QA it properly then bundle it as an extra with the XP and charge a couple of dollars more?

 

There are definitely issues with their DLC QA process. Pinnacle Station initially didn't work for people with the GOTY (aka Classics aka Platinum aka etc.) version, either.

 

Of course, I could just remove 'their', considering the mess Beth made of their Fallout 3 DLC. :p


You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that?

ahyes.gifReapercussionsahyes.gif

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Heck if I know.

 

A big spoiler about what happened at Ostigar and why it happened then is in the DLC though:

 

 

Turns out Calian was considering kicking Anora to the curb as he believed she was barren, and marrying the Empress Celene I of Orlais, with whom he was having an affair. This would likely lead Ferelden to become part of the Orlesian empire.

 

Did Anora & Loghain know about that affair?

 


The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

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Heck if I know.

 

A big spoiler about what happened at Ostigar and why it happened then is in the DLC though:

 

 

Turns out Calian was considering kicking Anora to the curb as he believed she was barren, and marrying the Empress Celene I of Orlais, with whom he was having an affair. This would likely lead Ferelden to become part of the Orlesian empire.

Retcon POWA!

"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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Well it gives some more motivation for Loghain at least but it doesn't fully work for me. For one thing according to everyone it seems Anora been the one that done most of the ruling in the past five years so for Calian to toss her aside in order to marry a regent of a country that a lot of the country still have strong ill feelings about seems like a bad move and might even triggered a civil war I would guess. After all to hand over the country to the Orlesian empire might even be considered treason if it's possible for a king to conmit that against his own country.

 

Other then that I don't really like it personally because it doesn't fit with the rest of the game as it's not mentioned as motivation or anything else for the rest of the game. I'll don't think it's out of character though since that king was never that bright in the first place and none seemed that fond of him.

 

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Heck if I know.

 

A big spoiler about what happened at Ostigar and why it happened then is in the DLC though:

 

 

Turns out Calian was considering kicking Anora to the curb as he believed she was barren, and marrying the Empress Celene I of Orlais, with whom he was having an affair. This would likely lead Ferelden to become part of the Orlesian empire.

 

Did Anora & Loghain know about that affair?

 

 

 

If you have a Female PC and convince Alistair and Anora to marry in DA:O, Anora tells you that Cailan was cheating on her and wants to know if she can expect the same from Alistair. She doesn't mention with whom. I have no idea how much Loghain knew.

 

 

Retcon POWA!

 

The *writing* for Return was done not long after DA:O shipped as it was originally supposed to be available in December.

Edited by Maria Caliban

"When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon.

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Well it gives some more motivation for Loghain at least but it doesn't fully work for me. For one thing according to everyone it seems Anora been the one that done most of the ruling in the past five years so for Calian to toss her aside in order to marry a regent of a country that a lot of the country still have strong ill feelings about seems like a bad move and might even triggered a civil war I would guess. After all to hand over the country to the Orlesian empire might even be considered treason if it's possible for a king to conmit that against his own country.

 

Other then that I don't really like it personally because it doesn't fit with the rest of the game as it's not mentioned as motivation or anything else for the rest of the game. I'll don't think it's out of character though since that king was never that bright in the first place and none seemed that fond of him.

Going by medieval standards, it would've been considered a good thing, at least from a political viewpoint. The two nations would become brother/sister nations and (even if some backstabbing would've taken place) having relatives in the royalty is probably the best war deterrent. I don't think it's any different in the DA-verse.

 

 

 

Retcon POWA!

The *writing* for Return was done not long after DA:O shipped as it was originally supposed to be available in December.

All the same, retcon isn't necessarily a bad thing. Edited by Oner

"Bones heal, chicks dig scars, pain is temporary, glory is forever."

What is glass but tortured sand?
Never forget! '12.01.13.

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That does lend a lot more credence to Loghain's actions.

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That does lend a lot more credence to Loghain's actions.

I doubt he knew about it.


The ending of the words is ALMSIVI.

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Well, at least it's an attempt.


Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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Wasn't there a reference in the game about Loghain knowing something? At least there was a rumour about it, but a lot of the rumours weren't credible. Anyway, that should've been known to every player as it would've made a lot more sense, and also the portrayal of Loghaine should've been a lot different, like why is he

selling elves into slavery

when in The Stolen Throne he was a great friend of the elves? Damn the DLC, they're just sectioning games off into segments, like everyone was afraid of.


"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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selling elves into slavery

 

While I havn't read the book this is one of the things I still had no real issue with.

He might be a ruthless and mean for doing so but at that point he is not too wrong in thinking that the elf part of the town is more or less lost and he is very short of resources because of both the civil war and the blight. It's not his fault the elves are screwed either but he is trying to make something of the situation, I'm not saying it was a good idea but then Loghain's ideas rarely are in the game. Besides lets face it in Dragon Age noooone cares about the elves, it's even the point at the landsmeet the nobles seems to care least about when they hear evidence of it.

 

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My point is he's portrayed as all bad.

If you knew his real motivations, then perhaps you could decide between supporting him or Arl Eamon, which would've made it a much better RPG


"Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan

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My point is he's portrayed as all bad.

 

Well true and I would prefer that too but then again. When was the last time Bioware did a major villain that wasn't 100% all bad? Most of the time it's their job to look ugly/be stupid as well so nothing new there. I think in some ways we should be happy they can still talk at all.

Oh right.. They already did away with that with the arch demon >_>

 

 

Oh well. I shouldn't bash Bioware so much. I really do enjoy their games most of the time even if I wish Obsidian would finnally release a new one for some variation as well. :rolleyes:

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