Dragon Age discussion

[RPGmasterBoo]

A cookie for anyone who guesses what I named the Dog

Blasto?

 

No, try again

Volourn?

 

Close but no cigar. Remember this is Edwin we're talking about.

 

 

For all those irritating cameos.

[alanschu]

still seems dishonest.

 

It'd be more of a mistake than me being dishonest. I intentionally prefaced my statement with "that I can think of." I don't know how long NWN was in development because I didn't really start following BioWare as a company until after I played Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 in 2000. However, since NWN came out in 2002, that would mean that a 5 year development cycle had them starting the game a full year before the original Baldur's Gate was released. Is this the case?

 

 

da made 4 years disappear, no?

 

I specifically mentioned Dragon Age. And I think 4 years is probably a conservative estimate.

 

As for SWTOR, I don't know how long that game has been in development. It was officially announced in 2008 IIRC, but I would expect that some time has already been spent on the game.

[alanschu]

A cookie for anyone who guesses what I named the Dog

Blasto?

 

No, try again

Volourn?

 

Close but no cigar. Remember this is Edwin we're talking about.

 

 

For all those irritating cameos.

 

Isn't it Elminster?

[RPGmasterBoo]

Isn't it Elminster?

 

Cant remember, I lost my forgotten realms campaign setting ages ago. If it is, lets just say this is another expression of Edwin's dislike for the man

[Gromnir]

still seems dishonest.

 

It'd be more of a mistake than me being dishonest. I intentionally prefaced my statement with "that I can think of." I don't know how long NWN was in development because I didn't really start following BioWare as a company until after I played Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 in 2000. However, since NWN came out in 2002, that would mean that a 5 year development cycle had them starting the game a full year before the original Baldur's Gate was released. Is this the case?

 

 

da made 4 years disappear, no?

 

I specifically mentioned Dragon Age. And I think 4 years is probably a conservative estimate.

 

As for SWTOR, I don't know how long that game has been in development. It was officially announced in 2008 IIRC, but I would expect that some time has already been spent on the game.

 

maybe they should needs have biowarians pass a quiz before gaining employment. that frumpy guy you meets on the road to nashkel mines, the one that speaks o' neverwinter... no accident. and the "books" that showed up on the interplay website to reveal future d&d games had totsc, bg2 and nwn all pretty much shows up at the same time... we were then informed that nwn had already been in some development for some time. between 4 and 5 years... much closer to 5 than to 2.

 

as for boo's dog... wouldn't Minsc have been a more appropriate name?

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited February 10, 2010 by Gromnir

[Majek]

Isn't it Elminster?

It is.

[alanschu]

maybe they should needs have biowarians pass a quiz before gaining employment. that frumpy guy you meets on the road to nashkel mines, the one that speaks o' neverwinter... no accident. and the "books" that showed up on the interplay website to reveal future d&d games had totsc, bg2 and nwn all pretty much shows up at the same time... we were then informed that nwn had already been in some development for some time. between 4 and 5 years... much closer to 5 than to 2.

 

Help yourself to a cookie. I didn't say you were lying. I asked if that was the case. The best case I could do was to look at the release dates of the games, as well as the core staff in the credits. Combine that BioWare also released MDK 2 in the year 2000, I was finding it hard to determine how BioWare would have the manpower to dedicate to NWN a year before their breakout game was released. I played Baldur's Gate so long ago I certainly do not remember the frumpy guy on the road to Nashkel mines (so I couldn't even make any assessment to its context), and I certainly do not know of any "books" that showed up on Interplay's website, so as I said, the list was "that I think of." NWN could very well have taken 5 years. I'm just skeptical that that is the case. Though it's certainly possible (and probably likely) that I could be wrong on this. It likely is a game that fits more along the lines of the 3-4 year cycle mentioned by Morgoth.

 

 

As for the hiring test, I'll just assume you're being facetious. I'd be very surprised if we didn't agree that quizzing people on their knowledge of the development times of past BioWare games would be unnecessary for hiring employees.

[Stephen Amber]

Bioware did have alot going on at the time, what with BGII/throne of baal, swkotor, and NWN all sharing development time. Not sure when work on Jade Empire started. And this was all before the Houston studio, of course. In those circumstances 5 years isn't excessive.

 

But, in citing an extreme example of belatedness, one need look no further than Duke Nukem forever. A game that was never released and had a development cycle long and expensive enough to make John Romero blush.

[Gromnir]

As for the hiring test, I'll just assume you're being facetious. I'd be very surprised if we didn't agree that quizzing people on their knowledge of the development times of past BioWare games would be unnecessary for hiring employees.

 

indeed. knowledge o' trivia is hardly a prereq for hiring... though Gromnir does recommend that people attempting to get hired should know the history o' their potential future employer-- you would be surprised by how easily impressed interviewers is by prospects who has done their homework regarding their potential future employer.

 

in any event, Gromnir don't know your job qualifications... am simply pointing out that the 3-4 (plus) games bio has made clear ain't limited to da. as you is a known bio employee, and sometimes shill, people may mistakenly thinks you have some special knowledge or expertise regarding bio games of the past. sorry, but as an employee you is gonna be held to a higher standard, so when you get wrong you should try to accept with dignity and humility.

 

2 year would seems typical, with significant more or less being rarities.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[alanschu]

I personally don't feel I was behaving in any other way.

 

As for my interview, the interviewers did seem impressed with my knowledge of the company. /shrug

[Volourn]

"we were then informed that nwn had already been in some development for some time. between 4 and 5 years..."

 

Yeah, and the first 2-3 probably had just a handful of guys. L0LZ It's also not like they had 500+ employees back then either.

[Gromnir]

"we were then informed that nwn had already been in some development for some time. between 4 and 5 years..."

 

Yeah, and the first 2-3 probably had just a handful of guys. L0LZ It's also not like they had 500+ employees back then either.

 

vol is correct. clearly bioware then and now is different beasts... but are you telling us that you agree with the notion that nwn were only in development for 2 years... or that da were the only bio game to get the +3 year treatment? 'course not. a biowarian shoulds know better, and if he gets info wrong he should simply man-up and admit... equivocation looks bad.

 

*shrug*

 

again, as alan is a biowarian, people will conscious and unconscious defer to alan expertise on those things bioware related. as such, alan shoulds be more careful with his opinions, 'cause whether he likes it or not his opinions reflect on bioware and not just alan. don't state opinions in such a way that they seems like facts. if josh tells us that alpha protocol were in development for less than 1.5 years we tends to believes... we believes 'cause we know he worked on alpha protocol, but also 'cause we expect that an obsidian would know more 'bout such stuff than the average boardie. is natural to defer to expert opinions.

 

alpha protocol will be super-groovy-keen=opinion

 

alpha protocol will offer no less than 20 hours of gameplay= fact

 

if majek or Di thinks ap sucks it is unlikely that they will chastise josh for stating that ap will be super-groovy-keen. however, if gameplay is a mere 5 hours do you thinks majek will be pleased? is just one reason josh never shares gameplay estimates no more.

 

is no biggie, but alan gots it wrong. should be more careful... and should equivocate less when he is wrong. josh is actual a good role model for such stuff. he hates to be wrong, but when he is wrong he admits... he also does a fair job of educating self.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

Why so anal over such a relatively small thing. You best off just smacking me around. Much morefun, and enjoyable for more people here. Is it *really* that a big deal?

 

P.S. DA is cool but not without flaws. Hoepfully, they'll improve the game.

[RPGmasterBoo]

This talk over how long it takes them to make whatever they're making is pointless. The game will either be good or it wont be. If its good I don't give a toss if it took them one weekend to make.

[Volourn]

Boo da winna? Boo da winna!

[Fionavar]

I am certain people are aware of this, but it feels important to remind people to try not to personalise these discussions. Furthermore, as a friend in the industry - BioWare & alanschu - may be speaking from a place that allows them access to information that we may not have, so perhaps we would also not try to turn this into a bad adjudicative scene from Law & Order (yes rhetorical)?

 

Play nice y'all ... I hates having to clean-up sand from the box ...

[J.E. Sawyer]

if josh tells us that alpha protocol were in development for less than 1.5 years we tends to believes.

Wow, I hope I haven't actually said that because... lol?

 

It'd be more of a mistake than me being dishonest. I intentionally prefaced my statement with "that I can think of." I don't know how long NWN was in development because I didn't really start following BioWare as a company until after I played Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 in 2000. However, since NWN came out in 2002, that would mean that a 5 year development cycle had them starting the game a full year before the original Baldur's Gate was released. Is this the case?

I designed the "original" (BioWare/BIS/IPLY) NWN website in late 1999/early 2000, but I'm not sure for how long it had already been in development.

[Gromnir]

if josh tells us that alpha protocol were in development for less than 1.5 years we tends to believes.

Wow, I hope I haven't actually said that because... lol?

 

It'd be more of a mistake than me being dishonest. I intentionally prefaced my statement with "that I can think of." I don't know how long NWN was in development because I didn't really start following BioWare as a company until after I played Baldur's Gate and Baldur's Gate 2 in 2000. However, since NWN came out in 2002, that would mean that a 5 year development cycle had them starting the game a full year before the original Baldur's Gate was released. Is this the case?

I designed the "original" (BioWare/BIS/IPLY) NWN website in late 1999/early 2000, but I'm not sure for how long it had already been in development.

 

 

alpha protocol coulda' been in development for a decade and Gromnir wouldn't be aware of that fact... and lord knows how we woulda' seen comments regarding as we ain't never even viewed the ap portion o' the obsidian boards. is the only original obsidian game we could think of that is current in development... am imagining it has been in development longer than 1.5 years, but as that seems to be the number du jour...

 

*shrug*

 

thanks for feedback regarding the ip boards and nwn.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[RPGmasterBoo]

Finished the Circle of the Magi, and got ambushed by Zevran. Been to Denerim for a little while, but am now trying to complete Morrigans quest. However I think I've bit off more than I can chew. I tried that fight once and got eradicated in seconds.

 

There are some curious flaws with the combat system. Enemy combat AI fails to work sometimes. Isometeric view reveals enemies behind closed doors, well in advance (?). I can cast area effect spells through three walls, into a closed room (??). I slaughtered thugs like that by casing thunder storm or whatever its called into their room... twice - and they didn't react. Enemies don't see very far for some reason.

 

I expected Denerim to be smaller than Athkatla, but actually it was even worse. The city is a tiny collection of completely generic areas. At least thus far.

 

Strange lack of dialog in the brothel.

The mistress sets me up for an ambush and has no comment after I slaughter all the mercs? I don't even get to question her?

 

 

I am under the impression that mages are overpowered. My elementalist slaughters everything in sight, and deals more damage than everyone else put together. The combination of petrify + that flying fist thing = instant death for almost everything. I've been in situations where its 4-5 thugs against me (all other companions are dead) and I still emerge alive through dancing away and throwing spells at them.

Edited February 10, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Sand]

I hates having to clean-up sand from the box ...

 

I can clean myself, thank you so very much.

[Gromnir]

Finished the Circle of the Magi, and got ambushed by Zevran. Been to Denerim for a little while, but am now trying to complete Morrigans quest. However I think I've bit off more than I can chew.

 

There are some curious flaws with the combat system. Enemy combat AI fails to work sometimes. Isometeric view reveals enemies behind closed doors, well in advance (?). I can cast area effect spells through three walls, into a closed room (??). I slaughtered thugs like that by casing thunder storm or whatever its called into their room... twice - and they didn't react. Enemies don't see very far for some reason.

 

I expected Denerim to be smaller than Athkatla, but actually it was even worse. The city is a tiny collection of completely generic areas. At least thus far.

 

Strange lack of dialog in the brothel.

The mistress sets me up for an ambush and has no comment after I slaughter all the mercs? I don't even get to question her?

 

 

I am under the impression that mages are overpowered. My elementalis slaughters everything in sight, and deals more damage than everyone else put together. The combination of petrify + that flying fist thing = instant death for almost everything.

 

never spent much time in the brothel, but some o' your observations are oft repeated.

 

seeming overpower o' mages? check

 

ability to cast are effect spells on passive/stationary foes 'round corners and beyond closed doors? check.

 

as for stonefist + petrify... dunno. at least on higher levels of difficulty, petrify would seem to work marginal more frequent than cone of cold to freeze enemies. am pretty sure that stonefist counts as an auto critical, so you does get a nice deathblow attack v. most mob-level enemies. nevertheless, there is many ways to generate an auto crit that will shatter a frozen or petrified foe. also, earthquake is a relative dog spell... not much use 'less you stack it with some other area effect spell.

 

denerim is clearly no athlaka... but da would be a ridiculous immense game if it were. is still more than enough to keeps you occupied on the remaining world map.

 

morrigan and allistar offer you curious advice relative early in game. go to redcliffe first? pike off allistar. confront flemmeth? perhaps at level 15 or maybe even 20, but not at level 9 or 10. is almost as if your party mates is trying to get you killed. most of us has learned that there is little subtlety in crpgs... seeming spoon-feed you important info through dialogues is no accident. da turns conventions upside down... teaches the player that following joinable npc advice is not always the best course of action.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[RPGmasterBoo]

morrigan and allistar offer you curious advice relative early in game. go to redcliffe first? pike off allistar. confront flemmeth? perhaps at level 15 or maybe even 20, but not at level 9 or 10. is almost as if your party mates is trying to get you killed. most of us has learned that there is little subtlety in crpgs... seeming spoon-feed you important info through dialogues is no accident. da turns conventions upside down... teaches the player that following joinable npc advice is not always the best course of action.

 

I'm level 10 No wonder I got my ass handed to me.

 

denerim is clearly no athlaka... but da would be a ridiculous immense game if it were. is still more than enough to keeps you occupied on the remaining world map.

 

I wasn't expecting Athkatla but I didn't think the capital would be a marketplace, three alleyways and a brothel. Obviously there's more to come but as it is, it feels too... disconnected.

. also, earthquake is a relative dog spell... not much use 'less you stack it with some other area effect spell.

 

Yeah, it costs a lot and can slow down a mob but unless you don't throw them a fireball or something, its next to useless.

Edited February 10, 2010 by RPGmasterBoo

[Orogun01]

Finished the Circle of the Magi, and got ambushed by Zevran. Been to Denerim for a little while, but am now trying to complete Morrigans quest. However I think I've bit off more than I can chew. I tried that fight once and got eradicated in seconds.

 

There are some curious flaws with the combat system. Enemy combat AI fails to work sometimes. Isometeric view reveals enemies behind closed doors, well in advance (?). I can cast area effect spells through three walls, into a closed room (??). I slaughtered thugs like that by casing thunder storm or whatever its called into their room... twice - and they didn't react. Enemies don't see very far for some reason.

 

I expected Denerim to be smaller than Athkatla, but actually it was even worse. The city is a tiny collection of completely generic areas. At least thus far.

 

Strange lack of dialog in the brothel.

The mistress sets me up for an ambush and has no comment after I slaughter all the mercs? I don't even get to question her?

Fair points all of them, it bothered me too even though I took advantage of the combat flaws.

I am under the impression that mages are overpowered. My elementalist slaughters everything in sight, and deals more damage than everyone else put together. The combination of petrify + that flying fist thing = instant death for almost everything. I've been in situations where its 4-5 thugs against me (all other companions are dead) and I still emerge alive through dancing away and throwing spells at them.

They are meant to be overpowered, no point to be afraid of mages if they are no threat.

[RPGmasterBoo]

They are meant to be overpowered, no point to be afraid of mages if they are no threat.

 

Sure but they're meant to be artillery - hard striking but fragile. With Improved Herbalism aka potion spam my mage can go toe to toe with more enemies than he should be able to handle. His longevity against melee enemies isn't significantly lower than Alistair or Sten even though I haven't invested a single point in his constitution.

 

...

 

 

The fade part of the Circle of the Magi handed out permanent upgrades like candy. This was a mistake because the PC didn't do anything in particular to deserve it

 

[HoonDing]

Magic is so powerful that enemy mages even manage to kill themselves by casting Fireball at point blank range.