Fallout

[HoonDing]

I think FO 3 quest payoff generally failed in 3 areas:

 

1) There was little sense of impacting the gameworld or opening up something new at the end of most quests

2) Most time the actual physical rewards for completing a quest is pretty minor.

3) Even the XP payoff for completing the quests is pretty minor compared to the amount of combat XP in the game.

 

 

When I combine all three of the above it does leave the whole quest aspect of Fallout 3 somewhat lacking. Completing a quest should at least pay off strongly in at least ONE of the above ways.

It's the first Beth game that uses a XP system, and it shows.

[entrerix]

combat xp was just way too high: cut that to about 20% of what it was and several balance problems become qausi-fixed

[Slowtrain]

combat xp was just way too high: cut that to about 20% of what it was and several balance problems become qausi-fixed

 

 

I agree. I play with a mod that cuts combat XP by about 50% and its still not enough really.

[TwinkieGorilla]

I felt that a problem with the quest design in general in FO3 was that completing them rarely meant much to your character's development. No matter how well a quest is designed while you are playing through the quest line, if it amounts to nothing when the quest is over, then it always leaves me feeling prety unsatisfied.

 

y'know...this is a topic which i attempted to bring up over and over at the Bethesda forums and is one of the greatest letdowns of the game indeed. While it's easy for somebody to rail on those RPG fans out there who whine about C&C to an almost self-satirical extent, there is much to be said about the difference between things you say and do in Fallouts 1 & 2 actually meaning something or having an effect on the game-world and it's characters within. Fallout 3 is unequivocal in it's lack of consequence for anything you do. There really aren't even any real repercussions to blowing up Megaton. Does word not travel? Fallout 3's world feels exactly how it was designed...unconnected, disjointed and pointless.

[skuld1]

Ah, another one of these topics... seen plenty of these on the beth boards. Basically boils down to the NMA-crowd and similar folk believing they have some special power or authority over the Fallout IP. Not sure what the F3 bashers hope to achieve at this point... maybe they believe that if they bash the game 10,000 more times it will disappear from existence and their precious series will no longer be raped etc.

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Fallout 3 is fun game, but I sure as hell didn't feel like it was all that much of a sequel to FO1 or 2. Nothing wrong with that, of course.

[Oner]

To quote someone from the Beth board:

They made Harold depressing! HOW THE HELL CAN YOU MAKE HAROLD DEPRESSING?!

 

It's like putting Hello Kitty in a Lovecraft novel.

Edited January 7, 2010 by Oner

[TwinkieGorilla]

Ah, another one of these topics... seen plenty of these on the beth boards. Basically boils down to the NMA-crowd and similar folk believing they have some special power or authority over the Fallout IP.

 

Ah, indeed. Here is another of the sheisty yet effective FO3 fanboy strawmen. You do realize NMA is Fallout-specific fansite dedicated to Fallout, right? Those of us who are members there or have been visiting since the games very existence don't claim anything other than a fairly obsessive allegiance and devotion to a game we love enough to sit and talk about on a message board for over a decade now. Nobody claims anything more than this. What many of us do indeed claim though, and rightfully so, is that many things which gained our love for the originals has been absent since (and the stingiest of the bunch will even argue against FO2). It's not an opinion that SPECIAL is not as effective or meaningful in FO3 nor is it an opinion that C&C was more abundant and meaningful. Lamenting over these topics is not inherently synonymous with claiming ownership over an intangible but instead a vocal display of dissatisfaction with plenty of in-depth analysis and explanations for why one would feel this way. But nice attempt, as always, to vilify the devoted followers (even if their devotion seems, well...strange).

 

Not sure what the F3 bashers hope to achieve at this point...

 

Well, see...the funny thing about NMA is that it is a Fallout-specific fansite dedicated to Fallout. Oh- have i mentioned this already? Ok, so could you possibly see how Fallout fans would (and will continue to do so) be talking about any and all things Fallout-related? Though I must say when many of us found out Obsidian was getting a shot at a game which rightfully belonged more in their hands than in Bethesda's, our interest peaked to a climactic high not seen since the days of VanBuren and for once it seemed that some of these misguided paths Bethesda chose to follow could be redirected and new roads could be paved.

 

...and besides, when somebody farts in a room and it smells horrible the first thing people do is exclaim their displeasure. Unfortunately the lingering stink of Fallout 3 just won't go away.

[Slowtrain]

Ah, another one of these topics... seen plenty of these on the beth boards. Basically boils down to the NMA-crowd and similar folk believing they have some special power or authority over the Fallout IP. Not sure what the F3 bashers hope to achieve at this point... maybe they believe that if they bash the game 10,000 more times it will disappear from existence and their precious series will no longer be raped etc.

 

 

Is being critical about a game, whatever that game might be, for whatever failures I perceive in the game, bashing that game?

 

I always get confused about this.

[Oner]

Years ago I read a FO story detailing WWIII. I think it was official, does anyone know/have a link to it?

[cronicler]

At the moment I don't recall m/any official WW3 stories but there were more than a few fanfic stories and "meanwhile in other parts of the world" type of fan stories and speculations. In no specific order The Vault (Fallout Bible?), NMA fanfic section and ş boards are probably the first place to dig for such stories

[entrerix]

It's like putting Hello Kitty in a Lovecraft novel.

 

 

i'd love to see his take on Hello Kitty

 

too bad he died like a jerk instead of living forever like wolverine

[Oner]

At the moment I don't recall m/any official WW3 stories but there were more than a few fanfic stories and "meanwhile in other parts of the world" type of fan stories and speculations. In no specific order The Vault (Fallout Bible?), NMA fanfic section and ş boards are probably the first place to dig for such stories

Then I suppose it was a fanfic, which is a shame, it was good and well written (fanfic? well written? no way!), like a historic account.

 

 

It's like putting Hello Kitty in a Lovecraft novel.

i'd love to see his take on Hello Kitty

 

too bad he died like a jerk instead of living forever like wolverine

He died/disappeared from an asylum IIRC. It just added to the whole creepiness of his stories/beliefs, so in that regard it was quite ...fitting.

[Radek Smektala]

Then I suppose it was a fanfic, which is a shame, it was good and well written (fanfic? well written? no way!), like a historic account.

 

There's a lot on Resource Wars in Fallout Bible. It's written by Avellone and was supposed to be canon back when it was first published.

[Oner]

There's a lot on Resource Wars in Fallout Bible. It's written by Avellone and was supposed to be canon back when it was first published.

Nah, it wasn't in the Bible, and not a timeline either.

[Hurlshort]

Ah, another one of these topics... seen plenty of these on the beth boards. Basically boils down to the NMA-crowd and similar folk believing they have some special power or authority over the Fallout IP. Not sure what the F3 bashers hope to achieve at this point... maybe they believe that if they bash the game 10,000 more times it will disappear from existence and their precious series will no longer be raped etc.

 

 

Is being critical about a game, whatever that game might be, for whatever failures I perceive in the game, bashing that game?

 

I always get confused about this.

 

I think you can go overboard with criticism. I typically will post my criticisms of a game and then move on, only bringing it up again if it is a natural part of the discussion. Some of the Fallout 3 bashers are a bit one dimensional, it's the only song they sing.

 

For awhile it seemed like NMA was stuck reporting on a game they didn't really like. It was an odd time. They've moved away from it, but I never understood why they were posting Fallout 3 news just to add cynical little comments. Seemed like a waste of time.

[Malcador]

Well as a Fallout fansite, they have to post tidbits and stories about all things Fallout related, including Bethesda's offering. If the users of the site decide to be snarky and not very warm to it, well, so be it. I've not really seen people bash Fallout 3 when discussing the weather or something completely unrelated.

[Starwars]

I go to NMA because I'm (having followed the series since I first heard about Fallout 1 a short while prior to its release) because I want to get all news related to the series, and they're good about finding that news. The actual news reports are pretty neutral, just factual. The forums themselves tend to be negative to Fallout 3 of course and have a somewhat strict view of the Fallout series, which I agree with personally. There are people who automatically spew crap everytime Fallout 3 is mentioned, and it is annoying, I agree. But I mean, there are many over there who are excited about New Vegas and look forward to hearing more stuff about it, even with the knowledge that it won't be a complete re-write of everything Fallout 3.

[Slowtrain]

Ah, another one of these topics... seen plenty of these on the beth boards. Basically boils down to the NMA-crowd and similar folk believing they have some special power or authority over the Fallout IP. Not sure what the F3 bashers hope to achieve at this point... maybe they believe that if they bash the game 10,000 more times it will disappear from existence and their precious series will no longer be raped etc.

 

 

Is being critical about a game, whatever that game might be, for whatever failures I perceive in the game, bashing that game?

 

I always get confused about this.

 

I think you can go overboard with criticism. I typically will post my criticisms of a game and then move on, only bringing it up again if it is a natural part of the discussion. Some of the Fallout 3 bashers are a bit one dimensional, it's the only song they sing.

 

For awhile it seemed like NMA was stuck reporting on a game they didn't really like. It was an odd time. They've moved away from it, but I never understood why they were posting Fallout 3 news just to add cynical little comments. Seemed like a waste of time.

 

 

So much of conversation on the internet involves countless repetition of oft-statated beliefs, theories, opinions, stories etc, that it is hard to know when something is overboard, I think.

 

 

The natural flow of the internet dialogue tends to be overboard by its very nature.

[Oner]

So much of conversation on the internet involves countless repetition of oft-statated beliefs, theories, opinions, stories etc, that it is hard to know when something is overboard, I think.

It would help if the arguing people would stop misinterpreting (out of blindness (both in the literal and...unliteral sense), bloodthirst, sheer stupidity or the "it's not there" mindset) each others posts.

 

On an unrelated note, I hope my laptop and the **** who built it burn in laptop hell while being bombarded by burning-brimstone silicon-chips and whipped by C64 succubi. No, make that incubi. Gay-rape suffering for you piece of junk and your useless creators!

 

AND YOU TOO, GATES! DON'T THINK YOU'LL BE SPARED!

[GreasyDogMeat]

wait, no. i *do* wonder why you and other FO3fanboys interpret what i just said into that same goddamned strawman argument. when i order pizza, i hope i get pizza...not spaghetti. i don't always want the same exact pizza, but if i order PIZZA i want PIZZA. get me? it's not that hard, holmes.

While I understand where you are going... homie... I also like it when devs try something new. We would never get something like Planescape Torment or KotOR 2 if devs weren't willing to try and 'give us spaghetti when we ordered pizza'. KotOR 2 is about as un-Star Wars as you can get... yet it has the most mature and interesting story I've seen come from the IP.

 

Yeah... sometimes it turns out to be a flop, or horrible for the fans. I personally love what Beth did with F3, but I can understand why some get their panties in a twist over it. I get mine in a twist about what Infinity Ward has done to change Call of Duty with the sequels, but I can't argue that it hasn't worked for them, as they keep selling more and more with each new game.

 

I don't really have too much sympathy for people who complain about F3. Atleast those that played and hated Oblivion. After Oblivion I expected almost nothing from Fallout 3, except that modders would eventually craft a decent game out of the base, as was done with Oblivion. I was HAPPILY wrong about Fallout 3 and found a game I loved.

[TwinkieGorilla]

So much of conversation on the internet involves countless repetition of oft-statated beliefs, theories, opinions, stories etc, that it is hard to know when something is overboard, I think.

 

 

The natural flow of the internet dialogue tends to be overboard by its very nature.

 

Indeed. In fact, for as long as Fallout 3 has been a topic I feel like I've been defending against the same Top 10 Strawmen Arguments against obsessive fans (i.e. "rose colored glasses", "all you want is the exact same game", "suspension of disbelief" and other hits!) and just as I find myself repeatedly posting the same thing in defense, I find the same arguments being brought up (either by the same posters or new ones).

 

Hey, look...I'm excited about the prospects and possibilities of FO:NV. Almost as excited as I had been during the grueling years of meager updates and "Is VanBuren actually going to happen?" So when discussions come up about what FO3 did wrong, seeing as how there's a whole heck of a lot, I find myself getting back into a reiteration. Hell, maybe the devs read some of this stuff and maybe some of it sinks in their heads...and if not...I've at least vented and got some stuff off my chest.

 

Trust me, Hurldawg. If FO:NV is a good game you'll hear all sorts of different tunes. Some of them you just might enjoy listening to (I'll make you a mixtape).

 

 

EDIT: @Dogmeat - hey, I never played Oblivion and never will. I hate Bethesda's style of game and only played FO3 because it was...well...Fallout, and even BOS deserved a shot back in the day. Also, I will never, ever be happy about receiving spaghetti when I've ordered pizza. If the chefs make me a special surprise pizza which is actually good, despite the fact it's not exactly what I ordered, I'm sure I'd be pleasantly surprised. Change my order too much and you've simply got an angry customer.

Edited January 8, 2010 by TwinkieGorilla

[Trenitay]

What if you didn't order anything and you recieved spaghetti?

[TwinkieGorilla]

What if you didn't order anything and you recieved spaghetti?

 

If you didn't order anything you don't matter.

[Killian Kalthorne]

All I ordered is something tasty and Fallout 3 is tasty. Certainly it isn't gourmet quality, but it is buffalo wings and ranch dressing tasty.