Dragon age discussion

[Monte Carlo]

^ Agreed, and it's only right that as a homage to BG2 they have a munchkin Kensai / Mage build in the mix.

 

Shame there's nothing similar for the poor, unloved rogue

[Oner]

"First, no one has yet soloed the game with a rogue."

 

Who claimed this? Nobody in this thread.

BTW, Mages are so 'overpowered' that people have completed the game with an all warrior party, and are going through with a solo rogue... *shrug*

 

 

Why do I even bother.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Oner

[Deraldin]

"First, no one has yet soloed the game with a rogue."

 

Who claimed this? Nobody in this thread.

BTW, Mages are so 'overpowered' that people have completed the game with an all warrior party, and are going through with a solo rogue... *shrug*

 

 

Why do I even bother.

 

I don't know, because all you have shown is that Volo was right. He said people were going through with a solo rogue, not that they had already done so.

[Oner]

Going through in this context pretty much comes off as they are doing it without problems.

[HoonDing]

Not if you're an arcane warrior. Grab as many sustained spell buffs as you can and wade in with the heaviest armour you can find.

It's not even necessary. A mage has so many defenses at his/her disposal that complete hordes can easily be subdued without taking any damage at all.

 

A mage losing to some fighter with an oversized sword or axe, is just insulting. Only a Templar should be able to destroy a mage, with the Holy Smite ability.

Edited November 22, 2009 by virumor

[Gromnir]

"First, no one has yet soloed the game with a rogue."

 

Who claimed this? Nobody in this thread.

BTW, Mages are so 'overpowered' that people have completed the game with an all warrior party, and are going through with a solo rogue... *shrug*

 

 

Why do I even bother.

 

I don't know, because all you have shown is that Volo was right. He said people were going through with a solo rogue, not that they had already done so.

 

vol's observation becomes somewhat pointless if is mere a recognition that people is trying to solo, no? if he is trying to imply that mages ain't so tough cause people is soloing with rogues, then fact fact nobody has actual done so undercuts, yes? 'course, as already noted, the ability to solo with a given class does not somehow rob mages with blood mage and arcane warrior specializations o' their relative power. vol's observation is empty on multiple levels.

 

2 additional points...

 

1) am pretty sure you cannot solo, even if you wish to.

 

our recollection is that a number o' critical path missions had 1 party mate forced on you. so, is not genuine solo... though am willing to concede that such is a mere technicality.

 

2) solo don't prove much o' anything in any event

 

for a rogue to solo successfully, he/she is gonna have to sneak past combats, set up traps, and exploit ai to lure out manageable numbers of foes. lord only knows why somebody would wish to play the game that way, but it surely don't show the powha o' the rogue... so much as the lack o' sanity o' some players. is a bit like those nerdlings that memorize star wars minutiae and then brag 'bout their hobbyist superiority on some backwater message board... what a colossal waste o' time. tattoo "loser" on your forehead and get it over with.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Gromnir]

Not if you're an arcane warrior. Grab as many sustained spell buffs as you can and wade in with the heaviest armour you can find.

It's not even necessary. A mage has so many defenses at his/her disposal that complete hordes can easily be subdued without taking any damage at all.

 

A mage losing to some fighter with an oversized sword or axe, is just insulting. Only a Templar should be able to destroy a mage, with the Holy Smite ability.

 

the game mechanics, as much as the rules, makes mages powerful. very few da enemies seek out mages as a primary target. mages can sit in the midst 'o combat and lob spells relative unmolested. am honest not sure if we would place heavy armour on our mage even if we could do so, 'cause ordinary da enemies prioritize foes based on armour strength. is no reason to make our low health mage a target by adding armour. is maybe only a handful o' enemies we can recall that made our mages their primary target... off the top o' our head, we can only think o' one such situation in the entire game. there is some pretty tough da foes that seem to resist with high frequency... and if such foes active targeted mages...

 

am not saying that mages ain't relative overpowered... 'cause they are. am simple observing that the game mechanics exacerbate the imbalance. handicapping enemy ai were probable deemed necessary at low levels, but such coddling becomes unnecessary at level 12 and beyond. game is fun, but rules and mechanics is poorly balanced and odd.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Monte Carlo]

^ Yep, it's not paper / scissors / stone like most games... it's more like tissue / small piece of tin / 10 ton boulder.

[Volourn]

"If your mage is taking hits, you're doing something wrong, no?"

 

Nope. My mage casts a spell and then suddenly all enemies decide to target it. And, with tons of enemies around no way my tanks can successfully block all of them even with the use of taunts. That's espicially true vs enemies with ranged attacks. And, since it doesn't take much for a tough opponent to kill a mage, that's all she writes folks.

 

 

"Why do I even bother."

 

Thanks for bakcing me up, and admitting I was correct. Nobody claimed that someone beat DA with a solo rogue.

 

 

"very few da enemies seek out mages as a primary target. mages can sit in the midst 'o combat and lob spells relative unmolested. "

 

O RLY? My foes seem to always target Morrigan. It takes everything I have to get them to target someone else.

[HoonDing]

It depends on the spells you use how much aggro your mage draws. Fireball seems to draw a lot of attention, in particular. Cone of Cold... not so much.

 

And if your mage is targeted by a tough opponent... force field/crushing prison/death hex serves as a thorough emasculation.

Edited November 22, 2009 by virumor

[Volourn]

"And if your mage is targeted by a tough opponent... force field/crushing prison/death hex serves as a thorough emasculation. "

 

yeah.. But, I tend to use force field to remove the toughest enemy then crushing prison on a mage then death hex on whichever enemy is doing the most damage. The first two don't last that long seemingly, and prison pretty much never freezes the target. And, they take awhile to come back so not enough time to simply recast. And, cone of cold most certainly attracts enemy fire.

 

I'm not saying this happens in 100% of battles; but it happens enough that the claim that 'mages never draw aggro' and 'ar enever in danger' just seems off. All I know is I have to work to keepo my mages alive (and, I do a decent job of it); but I can ignore my PC warrior for a long while and he won't be endanger of dying since low level enemies simply do piddly damage on him anyways thanks to the awesome armour and defence.

[Gromnir]

"very few da enemies seek out mages as a primary target. mages can sit in the midst 'o combat and lob spells relative unmolested. "

 

O RLY? My foes seem to always target Morrigan. It takes everything I have to get them to target someone else.

 

really. alan actually confirmed that enemies do indeed prioritize based on armor strength. yeah, if morrigan does damage to a critter she is adjacent to, that critter will maybe attack her... is not some kinda mage-invulterability... never suggested that mages never get attacked. nevertheless, when a boss, tough critter, or even a grunt initial chooses a target they almost never focus on mages. as already stated, this target prioritization were confirmed. so yeah, really.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

"alan actually confirmed that enemies do indeed prioritize based on armor strength"

 

I know this, and it is true. I did say once she casts a spell they target her.

[Gromnir]

"alan actually confirmed that enemies do indeed prioritize based on armor strength"

 

I know this, and it is true. I did say once she casts a spell they target her.

 

...

 

are you impaired? then what, pray-tell, is the "o rly" in response to?

 

"I like pie." from now on it ain't just "no" and "nope" but pretty much all your posts is gonna simply be Gromnir translated as, "I like pie."

 

is almost surreal... Really.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

"very few da enemies seek out mages as a primary target. mages can sit in the midst 'o combat and lob spells relative unmolested. "

 

When an enemy decides to focus on Morrigan and never lets up the chase even when i taunt them and have them chase Morrigan all over the place, it's pretty obvious she's their primary target. Right? Right. Even if she isn't their INITIAL target.

Edited November 22, 2009 by Volourn

[Gromnir]

"very few da enemies seek out mages as a primary target. mages can sit in the midst 'o combat and lob spells relative unmolested. "

 

When an enemy decides to focus on Morrigan and never lets up the chase even when i taunt them and have them chase Morrigan all over the place, it's pretty obvious she's their primary target. Right? Right. Even if she isn't their INITIAL target.

 

yes, Gromnir enjoys pie as well. am not sure what variety is our favorite... kinda depends on our mood.

 

btw, is not even just initial... did you even play this game. mage can blast folks with spells all day long and if some armoured chap is closer chances are the armoured guy gets attacked 'stead of the mage. is not our fault if you use wrong... plug away at grimlocks with lightning bolts from 2" away or some such. again, cause some folks is kinda slow, mages ain't invulnerable and it ain't like they won't never get attacked, but they gets to move 'round in the midst o' combat "relative unmolested." considering the fact that enemy mages is almost near universal our primary target in combat, it is passing strange that opponents not similarly realize the deadly impact o' magery.

 

bah... stick to pie.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Volourn]

"btw, is not even just initial... did you even play this game. mage can blast folks with spells all day long and if some armoured chap is closer chances are the armoured guy gets attacked 'stead of the mage. is not our fault if you use wrong.."

 

You obviously haven't played the game. The enemy will go after the mage. It happens quite a lot. Archers love to target the mage. I've seen ogres completely ignore my warrior and go straight for the mage. I've seen dragons take off flying and land right on top of the mage. I've seenr evenants pull a mage right into them. Etc., etc.

 

You must be playing BG2 - a game where enemies will NEVER target your mage unless you use your mage to kiss them.

 

Bottom line is DA > BG2

 

Mage are awesome in DA; but they are not the be all end all. btw, Hot Shot, how many injuries does your mages have (barring you reload every time a character falls)?

 

My mages fall the most. And, it's laughable you the one whoc ries about how 'hard' DA is tleling me I dunno how to play. Then again, you are probably playing on easy. HAHA!

Edited November 23, 2009 by Volourn

[Gorth]

Would your mages (effective) armour rating by any chance be higher than that of your fighters?

 

Just wondering since the tips on the loading screens hints at high armour values being a magnet for enemies.

[Nightshape]

^ It's like smashing a few rocks togeather. UG UG!

 

Volo and Grommy going at it...

 

GO! HA! GOOD FUN GO!

[Volourn]

"Would your mages (effective) armour rating by any chance be higher than that of your fighters?"

 

I haven't checked in awhile but I'd be surprised about that because outside of Morrigan's SPECIAL SPOILER, I haven't given my mages (her and Wynne) anything special to wear while my PC character is tanked out with some awesome gear. And, I haven't bother with spell defenses.

 

 

"Just wondering since the tips on the loading screens hints at high armour values being a magnet for enemies."

 

Yeah, initially 80% of the time my PC (or my other melee character usually Oghren) are targeted but the moment Morirgan casts a spell (since Wynne rarely casts offensive spells) she is bummed rushed at least half the time. Normally, I'm successful and stopping the rush but not always and since any enemy that's an actual threat will kill her quickly.

 

Scenario: Bunch of archers in the back. I cast blizzard. Most of them are frozen. the ones that aren't target her and if the ones who are frozen start moving they target her too. Like I said, I usually manage to keep her alive thanks to healing or my PC taunting but she is most certainly targeted more than her fair share consideirng she's usually far away from melee (barring times with cutscenes of course).

 

 

P.S. Could it be a computer vs 360 difference?

Edited November 23, 2009 by Volourn

[Oner]

^ It's like smashing a few rocks togeather. UG UG!

 

Volo and Grommy going at it...

 

GO! HA! GOOD FUN GO!

You forgot r00fles! .

 

 

"Would your mages (effective) armour rating by any chance be higher than that of your fighters?"

Arcane Warrior spec + massive armor + at least two bonus armor spells = I'd say yes. Edited November 23, 2009 by Oner

[Nightshape]

^ It's like smashing a few rocks togeather. UG UG!

 

Volo and Grommy going at it...

 

GO! HA! GOOD FUN GO!

You forgot r00fles! .

 

Can't be perfect...

[Volourn]

Should point out that the only thing that is completely worthless is the shapeshifting line. Talk about fubared. What's hilarious is that it's a mage specialty and it's soemthing that the game has in common with BG2. l0lz

[~Di]

I'll confess my mages fall. So do my warriors... well, Sten, anyway. I've fallen a few times myself... to be expected of a lightly-armored rogue who's in the midst of the melee fray with her little daggers wailing away. I've become enamored with Morrigan's Blizzard spell. I hold everyone else back, then have her run up and cast it. When it works, she gets to the back of the pack and my warriors wait for the survivors to stagger to them. When it doesn't work... well, RIP Morrigan. Even when it works, the mobs have blood in their eye for my mage. It's tough for the warrior's taunt to keep them off her.

 

I'm going for arcane warrior next time around. I love magic, I love melee, it should be right up my alley!

 

BTW, I've no experience with fireball or inferno since I kept Morri on the cold path, then went straight for crushing prison. Is heat better than cold? Opinions?

Edited November 23, 2009 by ~Di

[Oner]

Fireballs are always nice.