Dragon age discussion

[alanschu]

Ah yes I understand.

 

I think that that is always tricky to do. Gabe Newell, for example, is against stuff like that (and stuff like the origin stories in general) because he believes most people will play a game through once, and he doesn't want to deny them any of the experience.

 

It also means more work

[Azure79]

I finally finished the game yesterday. I don't know if its because I came back to a dramatic point in the game after a week, but the final battle was fun, but felt a little less dramatic than I was expecting.

 

I guess its because the main antagonist always felt more like Loghain during the course of the game, and the big bad dragon was more of a far away menace that patiently waited until everything was nicely resolved before attacking. It never taunted you, or sent assassins after you or tried to seduce you with promises of power, or kill/kidnap your love interest.

 

The other aspects of the ending I really enjoyed and I'm looking forward to starting the game again with a different origin to see how things play out. I think I'll play every origin first before deciding. The first time I just jumped in with the human male noble.

[Gromnir]

OK, I'm in the Brescilian Forest. There's no spoilers here, by the way.

 

That's a Dalish Elf quest - as a Dalish elf I want a way to resolve that quest, either by a unique method of negotiation or by a slightly different battle (that might give me a new ally or make the end battle play out more in my favour). Furthermore, only that origin unlocks that quest route. Or maybe two, you might give a mage something in the forests that influences the outcome or the city elf.

 

I'm not saying it has to be spectacularly different, but it adds flavour and granularity to the game.

 

is folks who suggested that the origins would be unique starting locations but that beyond the initial portion there would be little noteworthy material other than some unique dialogue options... nothing that would significant alter the critical path. Gromnir went so far as to suggest that each origin could probable support a couple of minor tangential side-quests that would be unlocked/available during course of typical play. biowarians assured Gromnir and other cynics that the origins would have far greater impact than we suggested.

 

...

 

am seeing Less than we expected, rather than more. given how the biowarians insisted that the origins would result in numerous and tangible gameplay consequences, am genuine surprised by how little we has seen. honest, we figured at least a couple o' tangential sidequest options would open up as we played, but am nearing the end and have seen nothing like even what we had modest expected, given biowarian claims and indignant responses to the cynics.

 

is a fine game... am just not impressed by the unique origin material, especial in light of fact that biowarians defended the innovation and impact o' the origins.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 18, 2009 by Gromnir

[Starwars]

I should also mention my feelings about the ending.

 

I do feel that the game (overall) is a bit combat-heavy for my tastes, and I'm not a big fan of the many battles near the endgame either unfortunately. However, I was very pleased with the actual ending cutscene. I found many of the cutscenes and choices towards the end quite touching actually, and there appears to be a great deal of reactivity to what you have done in the game (or haven't done even) which was great. There were some stuff that genuinely surprised me.

 

All in all, Dragon Age is absolutely my favorite Bioware game. It's a great effort all in all and will rank pretty high on my fav RPG list. Like I said, I feel it is a bit combat-heavy overall but hard to criticize the game for that. It is what it is and Bioware were honest as to what the game is. My expectations regarding a lot of the gamedesign matched what the game is, it's just that almost everything was much *better* than I expected.

 

Very impressed overall.

[Big Bottom]

RPGWatch are reporting that an update has been released that gives rogues some love and makes archer a bit more viable.

[Volourn]

Origins do give extra stuff. The Human Noble is a great example of an outcome that only one specific origin can get. The dwarf noble has lots of extra stuff including, probably, a nice gift from an old friend not to mention the politics on Orzammar is a LOT more personal.

 

I think the problem is people expect way too much. They somehow have this foolish notion that because of origins that BIO was actually making 5 different games. Come on, people. Get realz.

 

 

I do agree everyone that the rogue class, while it is useful, should have been scrapped. The world of DA doesn't call for so many classes. Mage and Warrior (or some other name) should have been the two classes with the rogue specific talents being mixed up between warrior or mage.

 

I really wish people would stop saying that mages ar eoverpowered and are untouchable. I klnow one thing if a an enemy starts attacking my mages they die, and they die quick. But, if they are targeting my PC (weapon and shield style) I cna laugh as many enemies (including spiders barringoverwhelm or as i like to call it prettymuchinstadeathlmaohahahawegotsyou style) only doal very small dmaage. Heck, my dwarf can stand toe to toe with two golems or two ogres and simply outlast them, and they rarely knock him down if ever. My mages will last 2.5 seconds vs them. Heck, even my two hander melees (the dwarf currently) don't nearly last all that long when attacked.

 

This idea that mages are overhwelmingly overpowered is silly. Most powerful class? Yeah, probably, Overpowered? No. This ideological myth that balanced must mean the same as equal is silly. We're talking mages. A class by very definition is special. A class that cna literlaly mkake things out of nothing yet you want them to be the equal of thieves or dime a dozen warriors? Anyone cna pick up a sword (including villagers) or pick a pocket.. nto everyone can make fire appear out of thin air. Seriosuly, dudez, come on here.

 

DA handles the classes absolutely fine and just like pretty much any good system. Mages are awesome spellcasters, warriors are tanks, and rogues are a SUPPORT CLASS.

 

 

STORYLINES: Can't give details as spoilers are not allowed but I just had to make a choice at the end of the Orzammar quest, and I made a choice that I was definitely not leaning to; but the game changed my mind. That's impressive.

[HoonDing]

I really wish people would stop saying that mages ar eoverpowered and are untouchable. I klnow one thing if a an enemy starts attacking my mages they die, and they die quick. But, if they are targeting my PC (weapon and shield style) I cna laugh as many enemies (including spiders barringoverwhelm or as i like to call it prettymuchinstadeathlmaohahahawegotsyou style) only doal very small dmaage. Heck, my dwarf can stand toe to toe with two golems or two ogres and simply outlast them, and they rarely knock him down if ever. My mages will last 2.5 seconds vs them. Heck, even my two hander melees (the dwarf currently) don't nearly last all that long when attacked.

Actually, a mage can easily own any group of enemies that attacks. An Arcane Warrior can probably solo the game.

[Volourn]

Did you know...

 

a mage could solo BG, BG2, IWD, IWD, PST, etc., etc., etc., etc., et.c.

 

I can't wait til someone solos DA with any character - I want to read how they beat SPPILER, SPOILER, SPOILER, SPOILER, etc...

[Gromnir]

"I think the problem is people expect way too much. They somehow have this foolish notion that because of origins that BIO was actually making 5 different games. Come on, people. Get realz."

 

hyperbole or strawman? take your pick. from the origins you get lots of extra... how did alan describe? fluff? yeah, fluff. "consequences" were a word biowarians kept using during development, and other than fluff and flavor we ain't seen much (any) genuine change in game after +45 hours of gameplay. Gromnir is the person who kept telling people Not to expect 5 different games... am one of the folks that kept saying that with a single critical path we didn't see the origins as being having a significant impact on rest of game. more than a couple folks, Gromnir included, noted that bio likes to give players access to as much of game as possible w/o possibility of missing... entire party of followers goes with you on ebon hawk, and the there ain't gonna be no special tangential stuff for those who play class x as 'posed to class y. etc.

 

...

 

is not that people expect too much. if you think that is the case then you didn't pay attention when Gromnir and others expressed reservations. we expected little, but we has actually gotten less.

 

the strange thing is that it were the biowarians who assured us that we were underestimating and undervaluing the origins. left to our own devices and prognostications, we woulda' predicted that the origins woulda' had 'bout as much impact as they actually have had. however, based on biowarian feedback and claims, Gromnir expected at least a couple additional side-quests and Some meaningful additional consequences. our meager expectations is what bio made 'em. thank goodness we didn't actually believe their entire sales pitch or we would be real disappointed.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Monte Carlo]

^ Bioware like to hype. Volourn never listens to the argument when he's in Bio shill mode - who said we wanted five different games? I just expected Bio to deliver on, say, 20% of the hype.

 

Anyhow, in other news Chris Priestly is teasing the Bio faithful on the Bio-Borg site, saying people really need to check out the website tomorrow. The fix-the-rogues patch, most likely. Or some DLC to appease the hordes who weren't happy with Watcher's Keep (like unlocking it perhaps).

 

Cheers

MC

[alanschu]

I think making Warden's Keep free for all would result in the people buying it becoming quite angry. Too soon for that sort of thing (I'm not even sure what it is that Chris is talking about).

[Volourn]

Yeah, for sure. People get real sensitive when other people get freebies and they don't. L0LZ

 

 

 

"Bioware like to hype. Volourn never listens to the argument when he's in Bio shill mode "

 

KOTOR is overrated.

 

The origins add a lot to the game, and that's all that matters to me. Perhaps I got lucky because I chose the Dwarf Noble; but there's enough extra stuff in the game that I have very little that when i next play through as an Elf Mage I will garner a rather different experience, and that's all one should ahve expected.

 

Perhaps, the problem here is YOUR expecations were over the top, and mine are realistic. IGNORE HYPE. If you base your expectations on hype you will ALWAYS be dissapointed.

 

Comapred to every other game that's EVER used the idea of 'origins' or 'prologues', BIO's gotten the most use out of them... which is what was promised.

 

Game over.

 

For BG2.

 

GAME OVER.

[Niten_Ryu]

Origins are fun fluff for players like me who do multiple runs. I bet we are very tiny minority and I'd expect someone high up in EA's hierarchy fuming about this issue of wasted development resources

 

I would have cut origins down to 3, chopped about 50% of the combat encounters (and 75% near the end) and merged warrior and thief in one class. Also I would have merged 3 different talent trees into 2 (thus creating more powerful talents for melee). Mage, as a class, is fine if not compared to much weaker warrior and rogue. If you do compare to 'em, mage is stupidly overpowered but from game mechanics point of view mage is fun class to play.

 

Started mage origin run on nightmare difficulty. So far (I'm currently at level it has been much much more easier then my dwarven commoner rogue run on hard difficulty. I actually had to check several times if I'm playing on nightmare difficulty because encounters felt so easy. AoE, healing and CC make all the difference.

[Gromnir]

"Comapred to every other game that's EVER used the idea of 'origins' or 'prologues', BIO's gotten the most use out of them... which is what was promised."

 

crock. if all bio had claimed were, "our origins will be better than toee's," nobody woulda' expected much. we saw loads o' people at the bio boards believing that origin portions would be 10 hours long, and that each origin would allow for a genuine unique gamplay experience. "The game is called "Dragon Age: ORIGINS". Bioware is obviously making the origins a centerpiece of the game." the biowarians didn't tell such folks that they were expecting too much. they did tell those of us with modest expectations that we were underestimating.

 

keep in mind, Gromnir was on the boards when the biowarians made similar claims 'bout nwn. Gromnir pointed out that you couldn't effective design a game that gave you a genuine unique gameplay experience for each class choice if you utilized d&d rules, and were limited to 1 pc and a henchman. folks on the boards defended bio claims... and a handful o' em were honest 'nuff after the fact to admit that bio had overestimated.

 

again, is not that da is a bad game. am thinking that some folks is confusing their approval of da with their objectivity regarding the origins. the origins is a nice little feature, but they ain't anywhere near what we were led to believe they would be.

 

"Or some DLC to appease the hordes who weren't happy with Watcher's Keep (like unlocking it perhaps)."

 

*chuckle*

 

that would be fun to watch. am wondering how many people would burst a blood vessel at such news.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited November 19, 2009 by Gromnir

[~Di]

What's going on with the Bio Dragon Age forums? Every time you click on the link, it takes you to your profile on the social site... It wasn't like this a day or so ago.

[Bos_hybrid]

Just as a heads up, I strongly recommend you do NOT download the toolset, and certainly don't mess around with it, at this time.

 

We're working on a patch, but people have had issues with it breaking their single player games (due to the core overrides folder being used for everything), as well as some issues for people still using XP32 SP2 (which isn't officially supported).

 

Really, the only problems I had, was when I used the addapproval console command, which really really bugged my game. So far with 10 items added in, no foul.

[alanschu]

I was having issues with the Social Site earlier today. Could be having some technical details.

[Pidesco]

Depth of field in Dragon Age is absolutely atrocious. Perhaps Allan would like to explain why, seeing as I can't imagine how DoF issues didn't come up during QA.

[Oner]

Hey kids, voting time!

I'm at the part where you rescue you-know-who and are confronted by you-know-who-the-second.

Specifically, I rescued the queen and Ser DaiShi and her underpowered archer army of great pain stop you.

 

Should I

A:

Let myself be arrested and break out on my own?

 

B:

-ll- and call the others for evac?

 

or C:

Kill them all and see what happens? (Somehow managed to down them, though the PC and Dog got no xp for Mrs DaiShi, then saved.)

 

[Malcador]

What's going on with the Bio Dragon Age forums? Every time you click on the link, it takes you to your profile on the social site... It wasn't like this a day or so ago.

 

Yeah, they closed the forums down on the 17th and moved everything to the social site. Not exactly seeing what's gained by it, but oh well.

[Volourn]

"crock. if all bio had claimed were, "our origins will be better than toee's," nobody woulda' expected much. we saw loads o' people at the bio boards believing that origin portions would be 10 hours long, and that each origin would allow for a genuine unique gamplay experience. "The game is called "Dragon Age: ORIGINS". Bioware is obviously making the origins a centerpiece of the game." the biowarians didn't tell such folks that they were expecting too much. they did tell those of us with modest expectations that we were underestimating."

 

Crock.

 

BIO had said, repeatedly, that origins would usually last 2-5 hours (some do it quick and some slow *shrug*). The fact that people believed otherwise just proves those people *are* stupid. The fact people thought origins meant 'unique' experience (seriously, in context' what is that supposed to even mean? That those people seriosuly thoguht BIo was making 5 different games? if so, those people are stupid. The fact people though DA:O meant that origins would be the 'center piece' means they are stupid.

 

 

 

"the biowarians didn't tell such folks that they were expecting too much. they did tell those of us with modest expectations that we were underestimating."

 

And, this proves you missed plenty of BIO posts that stated:

 

a) the origins would be 2-5 hours long and they would effect later parts of the game.

 

b) That the main reason why the game name was changed was b/c EA wanted it to be clear that this was just the first of a series of DA games (be it direct sequels or otherwise), and that the origin subtitle was picked to solidify the origins.

 

Obviously, the center piece of the game was the blight and the grey wardens NOT anything else (even though, imo, they could have done more to make the deepsawn more in focus).

 

 

P.S. People can call me a fanboy all they want. It only proves their ignorance. I criticized quite a few things about DA pre release (* cough* mana/helath regen *cough*), and when I write my review, I have TONS more criticism.

 

 

Bottom line is if people seriosuly thought that BIO was gonna make 5 seperate games, they are dumb. Plain, and simple.

Edited November 19, 2009 by Volourn

[alanschu]

Depth of field in Dragon Age is absolutely atrocious. Perhaps Allan would like to explain why, seeing as I can't imagine how DoF issues didn't come up during QA.

 

 

By depth of field you mean you don't care for the level of detail for things in the distance?

[Maria Caliban]

What's going on with the Bio Dragon Age forums? Every time you click on the link, it takes you to your profile on the social site... It wasn't like this a day or so ago.

 

Yeah, they closed the forums down on the 17th and moved everything to the social site. Not exactly seeing what's gained by it, but oh well.

 

According to the webdev guy on the social site:

1) The old forums are crap

2) If they continued to use them, they'd break down

3) It's easier to build a new site - bugs and all - than to rebuild the old one

[Malcador]

Oh well, that dude's arguments have swayed me, I'm on board with the change now. :D

[Gromnir]

saying that centerpiece of game is blight and grey wardens is meaningless... that is story and goes throughout game. is like saying that vcenterbpeice of bg2 were bhaalspawn.

 

"a) the origins would be 2-5 hours long and they would effect later parts of the game."

 

is at least 1 thing. unless biowarians has, within last 3 months complete changed story, the degree to which origins were 'posed to affect game were 'posed to be substantial. every time Gromnir said: dialogue and maybe a side-quest or two, biowarians claimed more, much more.

 

also, we would like you to post where biowarians said 2 hours for origins... is possible they has, but would needs be relative recent.

 

"That those people seriosuly thoguht BIo was making 5 different games? if so, those people are stupid."

 

they ain't stoopid... just naive. they bought bio sales pitch regarding origins. blame purchasers and boardies for actual believing biowarians? how stoopid could they be, right? vol is being vol... again, but if you can show us the 2 hour estimates that would be nice. preferably from some time previous to last six months, 'cause implication previous to that were that the origins were... substantial. haven't bothered to look in last six months... and why would we after so many years?

 

again, is a fine game, but if you honestly try to spin that origins is how bio presented then you is either delusional or a fibber... really. is at 4 times when Gaider specifically told Gromnir that origins were far more substantial then we were predicting. turns out that our predictions were... optimistic.

 

HA! Good Fun!