Monte's Dragon Age Thread

[Kaftan Barlast]

That depends on how anal you are, I dont use any fancy combinations or anything, just blasting away with fireballs and lightning and so on. and then the game is quite hard. A revenant only goes down with alot of potion drinking

[Pop]

Looks like this game needs rebalancing mods straight out of the box.

It doesn't. Instakill combos like freeze / petrify + stonefist / critical only work on one enemy at a time. That is, you can freeze a whole band of enemies with cone of cold or blizzard, but the whole "shattering" aspect requires a special attack like stonefist or a warrior's slam or shield bash ability, which has to recharge. So at best you can instakill two or three enemies per encounter, and that's only if enemies are below your level. Once you're about halfway through the game the instakill combos stop working altogether on the enemies you really have to pay attention to. Early in the game instakill combos can relieve a lot of pressure, but increasingly you have to find other ways of ending fights quickly (I've found that the AoE elemental weakness curse + blizzard + shale and dwarf guy with elemental weapons is a good combo, especially as it seems Shale seems immune to the freeze and knockdown effects everyone else is suffering from) The system never felt cheesed to me. You have to be wise about your spell usage, and your focus. Right now I've got a pretty badass mage with magic and willpower in the 40+ range and I can still easily lose a fight.

Edited November 10, 2009 by Pop

[Monte Carlo]

Why do human warriors start with one point automatically allocated in a shield skill, unlike elves? Rather annoying.

 

How have folks found DW and 2H warriors in comparison with Walking Panzers mit Shield? Given the high dex for the elite DW skills + high STR for armour / warrior stuff it doesn't seem particularly optimal. My 2H guys always get killed because they don't have shields. Blimey, in Ferelden you really do come home with that shield or upon it [/300spartan gag].

 

Anybody found the best 'combat rogue' build yet to de-gimp the class? I've yet to meet Zevran but Bio forum peeps find him weak too (mind you most of them find the game a handful on Easy, not that I can talk I'm finding it sublimely challenging on normal).

 

Come on, where are the DA min / maxers for chrissakes, you are needed more than ever!

 

Cheers

MC

[alanschu]

Can you post a link to some of the rogue threads on the social site?

[Monte Carlo]

^ There aren't many 'rogues are gimped threads' that I've seen over there, more general comments in threads about tactics. To be fair, some people are finding their rogues more powerful than their fighters - these I suspect are very skilled players who have discovered how to integrate the rogue and spellcasters together in combat.

 

Anecdotally, people appear to be missing their BG2 style thieves (i.e. broad skillset and more visibly effective backstab).

 

Cheers

MC

[alanschu]

Anecdotally, people appear to be missing their BG2 style thieves (i.e. broad skillset and more visibly effective backstab).

 

I wonder if some of it is based on the preconceptions and assumptions people brought in from previous RPG (and often D&D RPG) game experiences.

 

Kinda like how I found out that a lot of the "not so obvious" spells in DA are actually pretty damned effective.

 

 

 

For rogues, cunning seems to be more the useful stat, as opposed to Dexterity. Especially if you end up getting lethality. Dexterity's usefulness could be more for the talent points themselves.

Edited November 10, 2009 by alanschu

[Aristes]

To be fair, though, I think the game is fairly clear that cunning is the 'rogue stat.' Damn, I wish I weren't invested in my elvish mage. I'd start a rogue right now just 'cause I'm intrigued.

 

Oh, and I found my first bad vo. It's an elf in the mage tower. I missed him the first run, but my new character talked to him. I wish I'd missed him the second time. ...And he's one of the few American accents. lol

[Monte Carlo]

Yeah, I think you are right and that rogues could become a bit of a cult for people who like a challenge - next run through I'm going to make one (not least because it means you can try different NPCs) and I'll go for the duellist skill tree.

 

Alistair, PC Rogue and both the NPC mages = teh win.

[alanschu]

That was my party

[entrerix]

im thinking first playthrough : pc warrior, alistair, morrigan and either shale or leliana (which is more useful overall? i HATE leaving locked containers behind though...)

 

 

ALSO: why is cunning good for rogues? I'm still trying to figure out the system for this game

Edited November 10, 2009 by entrerix

[Monte Carlo]

Imoen chick? Great at locks and traps, complete liability at everything else. If you take her along, stock up on injury kits.

[Jaesun]

Imoen chick? Great at locks and traps, complete liability at everything else. If you take her along, stock up on injury kits.

 

What was utterly frustrating for me about her, was instead of picking some useful skills at say, oh I don't know... trap making or hell improving her lockpicking what does she have after I finally got her..... pick pocketing... at level 2. ugh.

 

An Zevaran specifically has a spoken voice that when the PC tries to pick a lock (if you have no skill) he say's something like, "Here, let me try that"... but he has NO lock picking skill. :/ that said, all of his assassin skills he has do make sense character wise.

[alanschu]

Here is an social site link for the rogues in case anyone is interested: http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/47/index/144733. It might help with those that have questions about the efficacy of rogues.

 

 

An Zevaran specifically has a spoken voice that when the PC tries to pick a lock (if you have no skill) he say's something like, "Here, let me try that"... but he has NO lock picking skill. :/ that said, all of his assassin skills he has do make sense character wise.

 

A rogue's cunning is also factored in for the ability to pick locks. So him saying "let me try that" isn't technically an error (though it does get annoying).

Edited November 10, 2009 by alanschu

[aries101]

Anecdotally, people appear to be missing their BG2 style thieves (i.e. broad skillset and more visibly effective backstab).

 

I wonder if some of it is based on the preconceptions and assumptions people brought in from previous RPG (and often D&D RPG) game experiences.

 

/snip

 

 

I think it is very true that most people today now seem to think that fantasy games are D&D games. And as such think that when the play a rogue for example iin DA: Origins, t will be the same as playing a rogue in a D&D game.

 

I don't think this is necessarily so. People generally make assumptions based on what they know, what their experience is, and how they've lastly dealt with the subject matter and the issues.

 

Rogues seems to play out a lot differently than in D&D; people need to learn this - but worse - they need to de-learn (if that's even a word?) all about what they know about rogues from D&D. And since the mind is conservative, it will take some time.

 

I've played the demo of Drakensang (great game, it seems ). However, I got lost in the points and level up system, simply because I expected it to be a a variety of the D&D system. It was not....

 

Likewise, fireball and cloudkill etc. were great spells in the D&D setting; not so, apparently in DA: Origins. It seems that spells like Cone of Cold are very nice

(to use, I mean - not for your enemies, of course...)

[Monte Carlo]

The guy in the link Alan provided hits t'nail on the head -

 

-----Conclusion-----

The game mechanics are anti-Rogue. Stat requirements for key talents and stat requirements on armor and weapons are different, forcing the Rogue to put points where they don't provide any benefit. Armor and weapons for Rogues are lacking until you get tier 7 stuff. Even the classic idea of a rogue sneaking around and backstabbing something to kill it is flawed in this game. You are outnumbered and your backstab won't even take your enemy below half health.

 

I don't want to play a character that only starts revving at level 15. Given the way dialogue works in DA I can spend 2 skill points as a warrior on coercion and rely on my uber-strength as a multiplier to intimidate people (I get very cool intimidate options and 40-odd STR wrapped in Dragon Armour is very persuasive).

 

Plus, my warrior was useful at level 1. And 2. And 3. Rinse and repeat.

[HoonDing]

Imoen chick? Great at locks and traps, complete liability at everything else. If you take her along, stock up on injury kits.

I miss a Knock & Disarm Traps spell for my mages. Or bashing chests.

 

I can usually keep Imoen chick out of trouble though. Enemies target the dudes in heavy armour first, it seems, so if I put her somewhere away from the crowd and let her shoot arrows, she's not that bad. And at least she can kick people in the nuts.

[alanschu]

I don't want to play a character that only starts revving at level 15. Given the way dialogue works in DA I can spend 2 skill points as a warrior on coercion and rely on my uber-strength as a multiplier to intimidate people (I get very cool intimidate options and 40-odd STR wrapped in Dragon Armour is very persuasive).

 

When I get my copy of the game (should be soonish) I'll start up a rogue and build it from the get-go to be pure combat focus and nothing else to get an idea myself.

 

 

Someone in that thread made reference to a rogue build that utilized strength that was exceptionally powerful from the get go. They actually commented that a straight up, full damage dealer should go strength, with a support class going cunning.

 

Though even among rogue supporters, the consensus seemed to be that outright ignoring strength is not a good idea. I don't, however, necessarily feel that this is a "bad" thing.

Edited November 10, 2009 by alanschu

[Monte Carlo]

Hmmm. So I re-started. It had to happen.

 

Again, I'm a human fighter. I rushed other parts of my last game and I'm sure you know the feeling when you want to start again and apply some of the lessons you've learnt before you've done 3/4 of the game (I'd put in over twenty hours and done about 18%!).

 

So, I'm in the Tower of Ishal and start applying sensible tactics and simple things like using the Tower Mage to make 10 health potions, via the bottles I bought from the merchant. I now have decent kit because I took the time to do the Chasind marker quest in the wilds. I utilized the neat-o ballista in the tower to play Genlock ten-pin bowling. I use Alistair and my shield dude to play shield-bash pong in melee, which is lots of fun. Dog now charges properly. I have figured out tactics slots so all the guys drink potions un-prompted.

 

The tactics slots are groovy, it's just that you need to spend some time figuring them out (I was too keen playing to bother for about fifteen hours!).

 

So, moderators, a question. Would you object to a Dragon Age: Tactics thread (I know there's an abundance of them) so we can help any guys having problems with combat without having to trawl all the other threads or (gasp) go on the Bioware site. It's much nicer here

 

Let me know if it's OK, or one of you lot open it I don't mind.

 

Cheers

MC

[HoonDing]

Best tactic when encountering a group of Hurlocks led by an orange marked Hurlock Emissary: refer to an earlier save.

[Purkake]

Best tactic when encountering a group of Hurlocks led by an orange marked Hurlock Emissary: refer to an earlier save.

 

More like send dog to Overwhelm him while you deal with the rest of the posse and then get him with everyone at once.

 

That damn Curse of Mortality is frickin annoying, though.

[Monte Carlo]

^ You see, it's this type of tactical acumen and cunning that would make the thread a treasure trove of solid advice.

[Oner]

acumen

I've been wondering since Lineage II what the hell this word is supposed to mean.

[HoonDing]

Immediately putting him/her/it in a Force Field is best, imo. But if the sucker managed to use Curse of Mortality, one is forced to bull-rush and kill him as fast as possible and run into a series of fireballs, ice & lightning.

[alanschu]

More like send dog to Overwhelm him while you deal with the rest of the posse and then get him with everyone at once.

 

I usually used Crushing Prison

[HoonDing]

Well, it'll take a while before Morrigan will pick up Crushing Prison.

 

Anyway, are there any tactics against *insane* load times? It takes 2-3 minutes to load by simply changing floors in Redcliffe Castle... I suppose this is a sloth demon at work?