Zoraptor Posted October 7, 2009 Posted October 7, 2009 Also in my case there is the fact that this delay coincides with the supposed leaked Sega meeting documents which refer to Alpha Protocol as feeling "barely RPG" and that "Mass Effect felt more RPG" While in an alleged Sega document, it bears repeating that neither of those comments were made by someone in Sega, but by a guy from SCEA- Sony's US entertainment arm.
Darth Sithari Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 Hee hee, I wish I knew how to make one of those Hitler Rants videos. Anyways, now that Obsidian has five more months, here's my wishlist for what I want: 1. Improved martial arts. This means including disarms, counterattacks, blocking, grapling. Rock-em-sock-em robots needs to hit the pavement. 2. Multiple level entries. For a game with the tagline "your weapon is choice" limiting players to a set path is quite contradictory. I don't want to always start a mission in the exact same spot. Give us an option to choose multiple entries. For example: the mafia don's boat. We should be able to choose: night infiltration by zodiac (Bourne), crashing the party as a guest (Bond), hostile boarding in a police interceptor with guns blazing (Bauer). 3. Realistic gun names. It's an H&K MP7 for Pete's sake, call it that. Opinions are the root of all evil.
Nepenthe Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) 3. Realistic gun names. It's an H&K MP7 for Pete's sake, call it that. Legally, it can't be done. Edited October 8, 2009 by Nepenthe You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
alanschu Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 Not without licensing anyway. It seems it only becomes an issue once there's money being made though. Various JA2 mods seem unaffected, as well as Counterstrike before it went retail.
Humodour Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 3. Realistic gun names. It's an H&K MP7 for Pete's sake, call it that. Legally, it can't be done. Oh? Has anybody ever been sued for using them in their games? As far as I'm aware, it's not done anymore purely out of fear. And even that's a lie: a bunch of games still do it. Just not ones by Obsidian, evidently. It probably wouldn't be hard to get permission either, if you were a real paranoid, since it's decent marketing for your guns, like YouTube. Then again, music companies keep trying to sue YouTube, so I think I'm giving these guys too much credit.
alanschu Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 I'm not really qualified to say how hard it would be to get permission or not. I think the idea is that, presumably, the addition of "real" guns is a selling point for some games. The best I was able to find was some random forum posts alleging that Colt sued Ubisoft one time, but I can't find anything more concrete than that.
Nepenthe Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) Nah, reread Krezack's immature post and decided to not contribute further. Edited October 8, 2009 by Nepenthe You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions
Niten_Ryu Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 Great. Now Alpha Protocol have to fight new Splinter Cell again. In the past I've been too kind for Troika but the truth is that from technical point of view all their games have been horrible. I'm currently playing Arcanum again and it's hard to belive that I'm playing it on modern computer. it seem like not even brute force can make that game run smooth. Bloodlines was huge lost opportunity. Think about how popular different emo vampire stories are now in mainstream. Twilight, True Blood ect ect. Sequel to Bloodlines would have had massive potential for really big sales. I really hope that Obsidian can avoid Troika's fate. Let's play Alpha Protocol My misadventures on youtube.
Raithe Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 If you have to slap warning stickers on cups of coffee that "liquid may be hot" to stop people sueing you if they spill it on themselves when they buy it..... I can understand why gaming companies might be a little careful about bigger things such as unlicensed use of names.. "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Lady Evenstar Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 My husband said the other day that GOG had to pull a racing game because the licensing for use of certain race cars didn't extend to them. I'd imagine guns would work the same way. The gains from real models appealing to certain fans don't seem great enough that you'd want to risk limiting future releases.
Slowtrain Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 I've heard various devs remark on how licensing a firearm's name can be a costly proposition. Especially when you figure it's usually just not one firearm. You do all, or you do none. Firearm companies no doubt recognize that the name of their firearms is worth some money and aren't about to let them go free for someone else to make money off of. Some games still do it. IIRC, for example Farcry 2 used authentic names for some of its weapons. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Raithe Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 The name of the weapon is one thing.. but the image is usually another.. After all, it's not that difficult to have something that looks "similar" to a certain russian assault rifle... or a rather well known Heckler & Koch product.. just enough differences and a completely different name used in-game.. After all, how many gun-bunnies are really worried about exact details for firearms in their video games? At least when those video games aren't trying to be completely "real-world simulator" types..? It comes down to a case of not spending money on licenceing fees over something that probably won't have much actual affect on the players feelings for a game... It sort of looks like an MP-5 .. it sounds like an MP-5... it works in game like an MP-5.. does it really matter if it's an exact simulation of one and carries the HK logo? "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Oner Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 From what I've read (or what I can remember from it) the stock of a weapon (ie. the look) is a freebie, since those can look similar/identical to other firearms, only the name counts. I don't mind the fictional names, but the Brokk in VtM made me laugh hard for some reason. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
lord of flies Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 To be a spy for a state you pretty much can't be much of a socialist. Well I think anyways. Open to hearing other thoughts on the matter...It's called entryism, newbie. I'll remind you that the great american communist Lee Harvey Oswald was a former marine.
Hurlshort Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 To be a spy for a state you pretty much can't be much of a socialist. Well I think anyways. Open to hearing other thoughts on the matter...It's called entryism, newbie. I'll remind you that the great american communist Lee Harvey Oswald was a former marine. He was a terrible communist, the USSR booted him out because he was a big whiner.
Killian Kalthorne Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 He was a great American communist, but a terrible Soviet communist. How's that for clarification? "Your Job is not to die for your country, but set a man on fire, and take great comfort in the general hostility and unfairness of the universe."
kreese12 Posted October 8, 2009 Author Posted October 8, 2009 I recommend the book 'J.F.K' by Don DeDillo if anyone wants to read about Oswald. The book is fiction but really well researched and presents an interesting take on things, besides being just a really well-written and entertaining book.
J.E. Sawyer Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 Oh? Has anybody ever been sued for using them in their games? As far as I'm aware, it's not done anymore purely out of fear. The potential for (totally valid) litigation is always present; companies do not relinquish their right to enforce IP/trademark rights through inaction. Additionally, yes some firearm manufacturers do at least contact companies to make requests/demands about whether their products can be used, by whom, how they are represented, etc. As for actual suing, I don't think anyone's ever gone to that stage. Developers either acquiesce to the firearm company's demands or drop the name/logos. And even that's a lie: a bunch of games still do it. Just not ones by Obsidian, evidently. "Just" not ones by Obsidian? Plenty of companies use generic descriptors for weapons. Especially in the case of pattern firearms, it would be kind of dumb to associate a company name with the model. IW actually paid a licensing fee for some of their weapons in CoD4, but I think that's sort of expected in a highly-militarized game. In order of legal risk from lowest to highest: * Totally fictional weapons that do not look similar to any existing weapons and have fictional names/manufacturers (2nd Amendment Firearms 11.3mm Destructorator) * Real weapons that look very similar to existing weapons and have generic names/no logos (9mm Pistol). * Real weapons that look almost identical to existing weapons and have model names, but no manufacturer names (Hi-Power). * Real weapons that look identical to existing weapons and have model and manufacturer names (Browning Hi-Power). twitter tyme
Floodland Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 why not skip the BS about weapons and let us now why we where only told days before release that the game was delayed? obsidian let us down before with kotor 2 and its shabby story, and now you let us down with another delay for AP??? are we to expect the same delays come June 2010 or just another half assed product that leaves fans to complete (TSLRP)? Oh, QQ more. Honest to feck... if you really weren't that happy with KotOR 2, then why have you come back to Obsidian? I thought disappointment left a lasting bad taste in the mouth? And it's been said time and again, Obs can't say anything until Sega gives them leave to! God knows how long that's going to take... BATTLE, n. A method of untying with the teeth of a political knot that would not yield to the tongue. - Ambrose Bierce
Fionavar Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 Thread Pruned: Step lightly with the passion please. Baiting/Trolling/Antagonising is a quick way to ensure I leave the Roost ... and I so dislike that ... The universe is change; your life is what our thoughts make it - Marcus Aurelius (161)
fuZZ Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) why not skip the BS about weapons and let us now why we where only told days before release that the game was delayed? obsidian let us down before with kotor 2 and its shabby story, and now you let us down with another delay for AP??? are we to expect the same delays come June 2010 or just another half assed product that leaves fans to complete (TSLRP)? Oh, QQ more. Honest to feck... if you really weren't that happy with KotOR 2, then why have you come back to Obsidian? I thought disappointment left a lasting bad taste in the mouth? And it's been said time and again, Obs can't say anything until Sega gives them leave to! God knows how long that's going to take... why come back to obsidian... because the game intrigues me not the developer/publisher! Edited October 8, 2009 by Fionavar
Enoch Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 (edited) crappy Arcanum does not compute. It's wholly off-topic, but so is nearly everything else on this thread, so I'll just say: Troika's attempt at designing their own RPG ruleset makes even Bethesda look like geniuses. (The characters/story/writing were passable, but not nearly interesting enough for me to keep going in spite of an RPG ruleset that colossally stupid.) Edited October 8, 2009 by Enoch
Oner Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 crappy Arcanum does not compute. It's wholly off-topic, but so is nearly everything else on this thread, so I'll just say: Troika's attempt at designing their own RPG ruleset makes even Bethesda look like geniuses. (The characters/story/writing were passable, but not nearly interesting enough for me to keep going in spite of an RPG ruleset that colossally stupid.) Now now, it was very stupid, but not that much. Though yeah, 40 levels out of 50 spent on skill requirements, and the almost 0 stat customization were rather dumb. Giveaway list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DgyQFpOJvyNASt8A12ipyV_iwpLXg_yltGG5mffvSwo/edit?usp=sharing What is glass but tortured sand?Never forget! '12.01.13.
Floodland Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 from Thorton's Twitter: Asked how long training lasts before we get deployed. Answer: wait for a press release or international incident, whichever comes first. Someone at Obs appears to be trying to make the best of this. BATTLE, n. A method of untying with the teeth of a political knot that would not yield to the tongue. - Ambrose Bierce
Raithe Posted October 8, 2009 Posted October 8, 2009 from Thorton's Twitter: Asked how long training lasts before we get deployed. Answer: wait for a press release or international incident, whichever comes first. Someone at Obs appears to be trying to make the best of this. Or just getting a touch annoyed by the amount of sheer speculation going on in the forums Possibly a combination of the two... "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
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