What are you playing now?

[entrerix]

so if a designer were to make an extremely realistic shooter where your aim dropped to basically zero if you moved and shot, you'd not complain? but if a designer just says, "perfect accuracy when not moving, can't fire when moving", you wouldn't play it? that sounds like you're being more arbitrary than the designer.

 

and i definitely agree that this is just like not playing a turn based game because you think its an outdated mechanic. a new game could easily come out today that requires you to actually stop and aim your gun to fire it and it wouldnt be outdated. hell it might even get praised as innovative because it raises the realism/immersion factor whatever.

 

now i DO agree that the transition in re games between moving and firing could be smoothed a bit, and making it easier to aim once your gun is drawn maybe would help. but i cannot agree that the design decision to let one move or shoot is based on retro video games.

Edited September 24, 2009 by entrerix

[Purkake]

I wouldn't play either of them(because I like neither realistic shooters nor survival horror games), but the first one would at least make some sense.

 

a new game could easily come out today that requires you to actually stop and aim your gun to fire it and it wouldnt be outdated. hell it might even get praised as innovative because it raises the realism/immersion factor whatever.

 

And either of us could spontaneously combust this very instant. If one does come and isn't outdated, feel free to send me a link, until then, focus on the here and now.

Edited September 24, 2009 by Purkake

[mkreku]

I

[entrerix]

I wouldn't play either of them(because I like neither realistic war games nor survival horror games), but the first one would at least make some sense.

 

 

so really you've been just arguing this whole time that you don't like it. great.

 

"I dont like it so it sucks and is outdated."

- purkake, 2009

[Purkake]

I'm sorry, I can't argue about stuff that I don't enjoy?

 

The argument is about the shoot while moving thing, not about whether I like the Resident Evil games. I'm perfectly capable of respecting RE5 as a fun and enjoyable game, I just find that particular mechanic stupid and outdated.

 

Is my opinion invalid because I happen to dislike the game?

 

I also loved PST, but hated the combat in it, does that make my option invalid?

[entrerix]

the only reason you've given that its outdated is that you dont like it.

[Purkake]

It's outdated because it is the only recent game to use that system and it's stupid because every other game (including everyone's favorite realistic shooter ARMA2) lets you move and shoot at the same time.

[entrerix]

you know what.

 

that's ok reasoning i guess. I concede.

 

still a great game (re 4)

Edited September 24, 2009 by entrerix

[Purkake]

Yay...

 

Could skip over the "you can't criticize a part of a game because you dislike it" next time? Thanks

 

As for what I'm playing? Tony Hawk's Pro Skater 3.

[LadyCrimson]

Ha ha! The orange jumpsuit, that's the one! I've had trouble finishing in the past too, it's surprisingly dense and I can't tell one Talan from another. Still looks great though!

I wish I could recall why I stopped playing...ie, like a bug or something, that might not exist on my pc of today. The graphics for the time were quite good, and the gameplay was very different. A little weird, but in a good way.

What troubles did you have getting it to run? I might have to pull it out myself after I'm done mucking around with MM8.

Edited September 24, 2009 by LadyCrimson

[Maria Caliban]

Mass Effect. I'm going through the various systems collecting stuff and killing people because they start firing as soon as I'm in sight. I've had a few difficult fights. Mostly against mercenaries with immunity who quickly shoot down Liara and Tali. I don

[Tel Aviv]

I wish I could recall why I stopped playing...ie, like a bug or something, that might not exist on my pc of today. The graphics for the time were quite good, and the gameplay was very different. A little weird, but in a good way.

What troubles did you have getting it to run? I might have to pull it out myself after I'm done mucking around with MM8.

Yeah, it's quirky and French in the best possible sense. The only issue I've had so far is the bad audio track error, the game won't read music from the cd. I've managed to hamfist my way though with trial and error but according to wikipedia there is a workaround using CPU Grabber. Also, Planet Adelpha has some unofficial patches which I'm reluctant to try. I'll give them a go I think and let you know how bad they fritz up my game.

 

EDIT: Found this also. I got off lucky maybe, I didn't have any installation problems.

Edited September 25, 2009 by Tel Aviv

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

RE characters control like tanks. Get used to it.

[Tigranes]

Chapter 2 in the Witcher and making pretty good progress. The investigation regarding the Salamander and the quest to open the Mage's Tower are both coming to their conclusion. I'm pretty much ignoring the ladies altogether this time - not even talking to Carmen and only going to Shani for the questing. The first time I didn't want to miss any content, but knowing how it's more juvenile than anything, now, I don't see the point.

 

I also remembered how damn annoying those upgraded echinopsae in the swamps can be - Cocchadil or something - massive damage, fast attacks, ranged, and the collision thing for those roots mean sometimes you can get a little stuck without attacking. After a couple of reloads I've learnt to listen for their 'sprout' sound and run like hell.

[Slowtrain]

I also remembered how damn annoying those upgraded echinopsae in the swamps can be - Cocchadil or something - massive damage, fast attacks, ranged, and the collision thing for those roots mean sometimes you can get a little stuck without attacking. After a couple of reloads I've learnt to listen for their 'sprout' sound and run like hell.

 

Hit them with the igni sign while you are hacking away. They take a lot of fire damage. It brings the HP down fast. If you use the fast style it can sometimes be helpful because once you get on them they are being hit too fast to attack back. Fast style takes longer to kill them though so it can sometimes backfire.

 

 

The Coccadium is a mini-boss. Very tough. The regular Archepores aren't so bad.

[Nathaniel Chapman]

I'm not going to reply to each post here individually, but I just think you guys are generalizing too much about what kinds of games these are and what's important in them. RE5 didn't make that control decision because they didn't realize the right analog stick was there. They weren't scared of changing the controls, or anything. It's pretty clear why they made that decision and it's because it reinforces their gameplay. If you don't like the gameplay, that's fair enough, but I think it requires some consideration beyond simply complaining that it's anachronistic. Particularly coming from a forum that, I imagine, loves top down, turn based tactical RPGs.

 

The fact is, when you throw primarily melee opponents at a player with ranged weapons, the instinct is for the player to just run backwards and fire because that is often a dominant strategy when fighting melee opponents. That gameplay often feels degenerate and one way to solve it is to not let the player run and gun, or to slow them to a walk, or to make firing on the run very inaccurate. They're all valid solutions.

 

I also question whether many players find the RE control scheme is awkward, considering RE4's sitting at 96% on Metacritic and sold about 4 million copies. Granted that's not an argument for or against the control scheme, but it certainly is the best objective measurement I know of with regards to arguing the potential success or failure of a design decision with respect to the game it is intended for.

[Calax]

The fact is, when you throw primarily melee opponents at a player with ranged weapons, the instinct is for the player to just run backwards and fire because that is often a dominant strategy when fighting melee opponents. That gameplay often feels degenerate and one way to solve it is to not let the player run and gun, or to slow them to a walk, or to make firing on the run very inaccurate. They're all valid solutions.

The term "kiting" comes to mind. However I think that the "walk backwards and fire" solution only works if the player is forced to walk slower than his opponents. Now I've played a bit of RE5 and found that the control scheme feels... clunky because of how it operates with the "shot" and "move" modes. MGS4 did a similar thing, but instead had snake slow way down when shooting while aiming (he could shoot normally but you couldn't aim worth a crap) but then again, he had enemies that shot back at him. I don't know, maybe the best way to deal with this problem with melee is that the zombies start throwin rocks at the players.

[CoM_Solaufein]

Kotor 1. I haven't decided which side to play on so I've been keeping it neutral so far.

[Shryke]

breath of fire 2 on gba

 

win

[Slowtrain]

I'm not going to reply to each post here individually, but I just think you guys are generalizing too much about what kinds of games these are and what's important in them. RE5 didn't make that control decision because they didn't realize the right analog stick was there. They weren't scared of changing the controls, or anything. It's pretty clear why they made that decision and it's because it reinforces their gameplay. If you don't like the gameplay, that's fair enough, but I think it requires some consideration beyond simply complaining that it's anachronistic. Particularly coming from a forum that, I imagine, loves top down, turn based tactical RPGs.

 

The fact is, when you throw primarily melee opponents at a player with ranged weapons, the instinct is for the player to just run backwards and fire because that is often a dominant strategy when fighting melee opponents. That gameplay often feels degenerate and one way to solve it is to not let the player run and gun, or to slow them to a walk, or to make firing on the run very inaccurate. They're all valid solutions.

 

I also question whether many players find the RE control scheme is awkward, considering RE4's sitting at 96% on Metacritic and sold about 4 million copies. Granted that's not an argument for or against the control scheme, but it certainly is the best objective measurement I know of with regards to arguing the potential success or failure of a design decision with respect to the game it is intended for.

 

 

 

There are other ways to add challenge to gameplay mechanics other than gimping a players ability to control their avatar. COntrol schemes have enougb problems given the currently unavoidable limitations of our inpout devices without adding intentional difficulties to player control into the mix.

 

 

If there were no other way to add challenge to games then sure, what else are you going to do. But there are in fact SO MANY wasy to make games challenging, then gimping player control seems a real huge copout for a designer.

 

 

Again, this is just my opion, based on the belief that avatar control should be as seamless, treansparent, and "normalized" as possible.

 

If other people want avatar control to feel more like a mingame, that is certainly there right. I just won't be playing those games.

 

 

And I am not just referring to RE5 here. I have recent issues with both The Witcher and Far Cry 2 as far as avatar control goes. ALthough in both cases I think those were limitations of their design vs intentional gimping.

[Purkake]

I'd just add that nothing breaks the immersion like you character not doing what you wanted him to do or doing it with a noticeable lag.

[Slowtrain]

I'd just add that nothing breaks the immersion like you character not doing what you wanted him to do or doing it with a noticeable lag.

 

 

Control schemes are already awkward and clunky even in the best of games. Why make it intentionally worse?

 

 

The WItcher has some really primitive feeling movement mechanics in some aspects; like I am playing a game from 10 years ago.

[Blarghagh]

I am testing out Scribblenauts on my DS! Favourite words so far: God, Bazooka, Jetpack, Cthulhu.

[Purkake]

I hear "EBL" is pretty useful as are "Pterodactyl" and "lasso".

[Hurlshort]

NHL10 - For the first time in my professional video game hockey playing life, I might need to increase the time of the games. Typically, I play 5 minute periods. I can usually get around 30 shots in a game like that, which is about average for a real hockey game. But the new NHL10 is tough, you spend a lot more time battling along the boards, and the defensive coverage is fantastic, plus the AI strips the puck from you much more frequently. It's amazing, much more like a real hockey game. So I think I need to up the time of the games, because I'm getting less than 20 shots on net on average, as is my opponents.