213374U Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 In the capitalist system, man works for the capitalist class.Hmm. And who belongs to this "capitalist class", exactly? - When he is best, he is a little worse than a man, and when he is worst, he is little better than a beast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 In the capitalist system, man works for the capitalist class.Hmm. And who belongs to this "capitalist class", exactly? Why that would be the capitalists, of course! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) Gentlemen, please. LoF has been quite clear on the matter. He doesn't recognise an inevitable connection between totalitarian rule and communism. He therefore doesn't recognise the inevitable abuse of power, laziness, and mismanagement which arises from (totalitarian) communism. It is senseless to pursue it further.Let me just, ah, make **** up here. Right, there we go. You've already been doing this. Why don't you offer a reason why "totalitarian rule" and communism are inevitably connected? Oh, right, because you can't. I'm an empirical man. Show me a communist country that hasn't been totalitarian. Oh right, you can't. Hurr, well, in a capitalist system you can choose from a wide variety of oppressors, all of whom have a vested interest in ****ing you in the ass. But more than one, eh!!! In a communist system instead of choosing from a wide variety of oppressors, you have a single one that has a vested interest in ****ing you in the ass. In the communist system, man works for the community. And you accuse other people of buying too much into propaganda. Edited September 7, 2009 by alanschu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorgon Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 In the capitalist system, man works for the capitalist class.Hmm. And who belongs to this "capitalist class", exactly? Scrooge Mcduck Na na na na na na ... greg358 from Darksouls 3 PVP is a CHEATER. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 GOLD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lord of flies Posted September 7, 2009 Author Share Posted September 7, 2009 I'm an empirical man. Show me a communist country that hasn't been totalitarian. Oh right, you can't.Cuba, Moldova, Belarus, et cetera. Hurr, well, in a capitalist system you can choose from a wide variety of oppressors, all of whom have a vested interest in ****ing you in the ass. But more than one, eh!!! In a communist system instead of choosing from a wide variety of oppressors, you have a single one that has a vested interest in ****ing you in the ass. Hmm. And who belongs to this "capitalist class", exactly?The rich "business" men, investors; those who make their money work for them, using it as liquid capital to create more liquid capital by harvesting the work of decent, hard-working citizens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) Yes, Cuba is a great example. As are your other ones. Lukashenko describes himself as having an authoritarian ruling style. Moldova has seen the rest of the democratic parties form a coalition government against it, and depending on who you ask, some feel it is communist only in name. They're also examples of the high standards of living as well. Of course, Cuba has no problem relying on the tourism money from those capitalist pigdogs in those corrupt, hard troden, exploited capitalist countries. While they hide the dirty, overpopulated shanty towns their citizens live in. Roll your eyes all you want, but you know it's true. If you honestly believe that the leaders of state with the power to tell other people what to build and develop don't have a vested interest in ****ing you in the ass for their own personal gain, then you're living in an idealistic fantasy world. Stop consuming the propaganda. It'd at least make more sense for you to rationalize that the Soviet Union wasn't communist, but rather state capitalist like other communists believe. But this is also coming from the guy that openly stated he supported running razor wire through its citizens. In fact, you referred to it as an ingenious way to deal with a situation that rarely occurs. So you've already demonstrated that you have no grasp on reality. You're also the same dumbass that tried to convince himself that buying used computer equipment doesn't contribute to the capitalist machine. Edited September 7, 2009 by alanschu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guard Dog Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Cuba Cuba is not totalitarian huh. Obviously you have never actually met someone from Cuba. Even if you did you would probably dismiss them as a liar once what they told you did not conform to your narrow little ill informed world view. http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/estoria.presidio.html http://www.fiu.edu/~fcf/bofill111197.html http://stonecuban.com/atrocities/ Isn't it amazing the communist regimes are only created at gunpoint, and the first thing they ALL do is kill everyone who opposed them and try to kill everyone who leaves. You know that Berlin Wall was built to keep people in, not out. "While it is true you learn with age, the down side is what you often learn is what a damn fool you were before" Thomas Sowell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) Isn't it amazing the communist regimes are only created at gunpoint, and the first thing they ALL do is kill everyone who opposed them and try to kill everyone who leaves. You know that Berlin Wall was built to keep people in, not out. Going with the Marxist/Leninist roots, communism requires armed revolution. While Marx believed that eventually the concept of state would disappear, Lenin's viewpoint was a bit nebulous, as he sought to create the Soviets, which were small regions of direct democracy, though also felt the need for the vanguard party....the elite group of individuals that would educate and convince the proletariat that revolution was necessary, though under the idealistic notion that this elite group wouldn't eventually become the leaders and power brokers of the proletariat. It's okay though Guard Dog. The propaganda that Stalin is arguably the most notorious mass murderer in history is justified by the fact that he built up a strong industrial sector! The ironic thing of course, is that our good friend LoF is able to safely express his opinion without fear of retribution, on a message board run and maintained by people living in a democratic, capitalist state. Edited September 7, 2009 by alanschu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hiro Protagonist Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 so, has anyone seen the movie Men Behind The Sun? I don't think I have the stomach to watch it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 (edited) I'm just going to take this moment to say that I didn't really like Snowcrash. That's right. Neuro-linguistic programming my ass. Edited September 7, 2009 by Purkake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted September 7, 2009 Share Posted September 7, 2009 Nepal and many states of India are far better examples of non-totalitarian communist ruled areas. Moldova perhaps too, especially since it has a number of significant mitigating factors for its problems like overt Russian and Romanian interference. Cuba and, especially, Byelorus not so much. One of the biggest problems of democratic communism, or even Chavez style socialism, is that it's far easier and quicker for a right wing government once elected to reverse 'socialist' or 'communist' reforms than it to make those reforms in the first place. LoF really isn't doing this very well, s/he isn't even being consistent in attitude to the Spanish Civil War. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 LoF has yet to do this very well. You may have missed the thread where he defended and praised the DPK for their creative and innovative solution of running wire through the shoulders of defectors being returned from China. I'd call Moldova's factors aggravating factors But I guess that just depends on what perspective you're looking at it from hehe /nitpick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 You may have missed the thread where he defended and praised the DPK for their creative and innovative solution of running wire through the shoulders of defectors being returned from China. That got deleted fairly quickly though, so if you were not on right then you missed it. Not that there was much to see. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Helping other people is slavery? if you don't want to, yes. Working on behalf of the state is slavery? if it is forced, yes. are you incapable of simple reading comprehension? i did clearly state "as long as humans have free will." you cannot get every human to willfully work for another, period. thus totalitarian force is required to make communism "work." what is so hard to understand about that? "Hurr, well, in a capitalist system you can choose from a wide variety of oppressors, all of whom have a vested interest in ****ing you in the ass. But more than one, eh!!!" In the communist system, man works for the community. In the capitalist system, man works for the capitalist class. Which would you choose? um, that's not what you asked early, to which i replied. you asked about how communism and totalitarian control united. to which i replied that force is required to implement communism. why don't you try sticking to the question rather than raising a strawman. not one point you raised here addresses that question and answer. are you even capable, or do you wear nice shoes like the rest i so adore in here? taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taks Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 in fact, your exact question was Why don't you offer a reason why "totalitarian rule" and communism are inevitably connected? so, rather than going off on a strawman about whether it is good or bad, why don't you try addressing the fact that i gave you one real reason you seem incapable of responding to. communism requires totalitarian rule as long as people have free will. are you capable? taks comrade taks... just because. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I don't know why people still reply to LoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Isn't it amazing the communist regimes are only created at gunpoint, and the first thing they ALL do is kill everyone who opposed them and try to kill everyone who leaves. You know that Berlin Wall was built to keep people in, not out. Going with the Marxist/Leninist roots, communism requires armed revolution. While Marx believed that eventually the concept of state would disappear, Lenin's viewpoint was a bit nebulous Huh. I'm pretty sure Marx saw communism as an end-state for society which would come about by revolution, but a peaceful one. Lenin diverged, certainly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cycloneman Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 I don't know why people still reply to LoF.I don't know why you come into LoF's threads and **** them up with this all the time. It doesn't contribute anything, and it's really obnoxious. I don't post if I don't have anything to say, which I guess makes me better than the rest of your so-called "community." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) I don't know why people still reply to LoF.I don't know why you come into LoF's threads and **** them up with this all the time. It doesn't contribute anything, and it's really obnoxious. I make plenty of serious contributions to LoF's threads in response to the serious posters of this forum, but you need to pull the blindfold from over your eyes because LoF is quite clearly a troll mate. LoF's free to troll, and I'm free to call him out on his trolling. Now get over your hurt sensibilities. Edited September 8, 2009 by Krezack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cycloneman Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 LoF's free to troll, and I'm free to call him out on his trolling. Now get over your hurt sensibilities.Yeah, I'm the one with the "hurt sensibilities," not the one who compulsively posts "LoF is a troll!!! A TROLL I SAY!!!" as though it will accomplish anything more the twentieth time. It's just white noise, dude. My eyes literally glaze over it. I don't post if I don't have anything to say, which I guess makes me better than the rest of your so-called "community." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humodour Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 LoF's free to troll, and I'm free to call him out on his trolling. Now get over your hurt sensibilities.Yeah, I'm the one with the "hurt sensibilities," not the one who compulsively posts "LoF is a troll!!! A TROLL I SAY!!!" as though it will accomplish anything more the twentieth time. It's just white noise, dude. My eyes literally glaze over it. Your eyes literally glaze over it so much you get angry and swear at me about it in a rant? Man, anybody would think LoF was your alt or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cycloneman Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Your eyes literally glaze over it so much you get angry and swear at me about it in a rant?I use curse words, they don't mean I'm angry. It's actually quite common.Man, anybody would think LoF was your alt or something. We all know that you're LoF's real alt. I don't post if I don't have anything to say, which I guess makes me better than the rest of your so-called "community." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alanschu Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 Meh, I used to make the same posts that Krezack did about LoF. Until someone pointed out to me just how entertaining he really can be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted September 8, 2009 Share Posted September 8, 2009 (edited) I'd call Moldova's factors aggravating factors But I guess that just depends on what perspective you're looking at it from hehe /nitpick Yes, mitigating in the sense that given the aggravating internal ethnic and external political factors, and lack of external support pretty much anything better than a Bosnia style disintegration is an achievement, and their elections are at least reasonably fair. I saw the DPRK thread. The start was quite good, the problem was with not knowing when to stop, remaining consistent and picking an inherently hard sell. If I were trying to 'defend' communism I would have picked something inherently more palatable like 'what would have happened if Trotsky rather than Stalin had succeeded Lenin?' and immediately shoved Stalin, Mao etc into the monomaniac-taking-advantage-of-communism basket. Then again, I'm no great fan of communism- though it'd be a great idea if people were robots or termites. Overall f I were looking for an alternative I'd far rather defend one of the anarcho-socialist/ syndicalist systems as in Kibbutz or Catalunya 1936. Edited September 8, 2009 by Zoraptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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