Dragon Age Origins

[Volourn]

"That's the trouble when excessively playing Bioware games. People develop this condition where, an RPG must look like a BiowareTM product, with a save the world TM plot, in which there is a fuzzy romance TM, likeable replicas of past characters TM, identical plot progressionTM, same but ever devolving gameplay TM and needless drama TM."

 

Nonsense. I like plenty of non BIO style games. Some of us aren't ahrdcoded where it's an either/or proposition. It's why I can claim that BG2, FO2, and NHL 09 are 3 of my favorite games ever despite them not being the same. *shrug*

 

The problem with TW is that it just plainly sucks. Heck, it could have been the most mature game ever,a nd it would still suck as the story sucks, the main character is a loser, the combat is horirble, the gameplay is crap, the C&C is overrated, etc., etc.

 

And, the sad thing is, I was looking forwrad to it prior to release and even defending it on the Codex. I am ashamed of that.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Well if I were to separate game maturity and real world maturity, the only moderately mature game in a real world sense (meaning it tries to go beyond a mere game) is Torment. But its so out of place amongst everything else that I don't know how much its applicable to the "what makes a game mature" discussion.

[~Di]

AT least there IS a male/male romance option (If I read that correctly) in DA...

 

That has me mildly.... interested.

 

And I will have to agree with Di on the ME romances. (avoids rocks). I felt Gann in MotB was vastly superior though (and knowing he was supposed to be.... bi-sexual, before that was cut). I'm probably being a bit biased though.

 

You're right, the Gann romance was superior to the ME romance. I'd forgotten about it because I found so many design/story decisions in MOTB annoying enough that I never wanted to play that expansion again, although I've played NWN2 OC a half-dozen times. I'm usually easily amused, and can forgive a game's foibles (they all have 'em) if I just have fun playing it. With MOTB, I could see glimpses of brilliance and respect that they had taken a big chance to do something that had never been done before... yet I didn't have fun playing it. So it sits on the shelf.

 

For me, it's all about the fun-factor. I kinda suspect it's that way for you as well... amirite? I don't bother to psychoanalize and categorize games. I either had fun playing, or I didn't. I leave most of the complaining to the Obsidian Forums B*tchfest Brigade & Bio-Basher Drill Team. Their numbers are legion!

[Fionavar]

Thread Pruned: Let's leave the gutter out of the sandbox - makes for too much work!

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

This game will suck.

[alanschu]

/facepalm

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

Also Carth was a well written, interesting character.

[alanschu]

/facepalmx2

 

 

Imitating him of all people!?

 

 

r00fles

[WILL THE ALMIGHTY]

I'm going to try and ask a serious question though: does anyone think this'll be better/worse than ME? In terms of story and dialogue, mostly.

 

It seems most people (or some here, I dunno) think Bioware's been getting worse with the years, so... from what you've seen of the game, do you think they're getting better again? Its certainly not as pretty as ME... which is something I don't really get.

[Hurlshort]

Well, I don't think Bioware has gotten worse over the years, in fact I devoured ME very quickly, as I have with most Bioware games.

 

I see Dragon Age being different than their recent titles though. KotOR, JE, and ME all have a very similar scope, they are telling a single story about your character. Sure, there are side quests, but the central story is always at the forefront.

 

It seems like DA will be more varied in terms of the story aspect. It's hard to explain, I guess, it's like BG I and II, they just seemed to have a different narrative style, and that seems to be Bioware's goal with DA.

[Aristes]

Actually, that's the feeling I've been getting also. I liked KotOR, skipped JE and ME. I also liked their ol' skool games. Like Hurlshot, I think it's going to somewhat more like the BG series. However, I think folks expecting it to be a return to the BG series will be disappointed.

[alanschu]

Hmmm, all of my "play for fun" experience in the game has been on the PC, and I think it actually looks pretty good.

 

I enjoyed Mass Effect, but I think Dragon Age is a different enough of a game. Keeping in mind that my experience has been PC side, but I find the combat much more challenging and tactical than Mass Effect, and I think it does a better job of handling "shades of grey" (given that seems like one of the intentions of the game, that's not that surprising haha).

 

 

I genuinely really enjoyed the game. I really enjoyed the ending too.

[RPGmasterBoo]

It will be better than Mass Effect but that doesn't say much as Mass Effect was the worst game they ever made. It was too short, too easy, the story was recycled, the characters were recycled, the dialog shallow, and the world building attempt was a failure when you realized that all there was to the world was one shiny space station and a dozen character models of various aliens. Also it had the worst optional content ever for a Bioware game, and all the so called exploration amounted to the same thing: drive around, loot a corpse, find some rocks, kill everything in the same dungeon, bail out.

 

Now let me lay my sledgehammer aside and say that in Dragon Age, the one thing I don't trust is that its also Bioware world building. The back story doesn't seem either fresh or original. But that doesn't have to mean anything, they could get it right this time. The fact that you can take only 3 characters with you is also irritating, (and if you keep the steroid enhanced pit bull that makes for 2). The origin stories will also chew up a lot of the games resources (to make them all a seamless fit), and we'll just have to see how that all works out.

 

And yes - well noted that the graphics look dated. Barely above the Witcher's level. In fact the game has to be released soon, because the graphical side will be hopelessly outdated in the coming months. They say its because of massive battles, huge environments, yadayadayada but the fact is we'll know whether it was carelessness (and an issue of priorities) or a necessity when we get our hands on the game.

[EUIX]

It doesn't matter what any of us thinks about it, we are all going to play it as soon as it comes out. Just look at the hype on this forum by itself.

[Meshugger]

I find the task of defining mature interesting. I can not exactly define it by pure objective terms, but i think i can on an intuitive level. Lets take a random Shakespeare play on on hand, and the series Pokemon on the other. You know that Shakespeare is more mature by default, but how and why?

 

However, i think i know in loose terms, namely:

 

-What do children find interesting? What do they like to discuss with their friends? What problems do they have in their everyday lives?

-What do teenagers find interesting? What do they like to discuss with their friends? What problems do they have in their everyday lives?

-What do adults find interesting? What do they like to discuss with their friends? What problems do they have in their everyday lives?

 

Apply that to Dragon Age or The Witcher and start working those gray celles of yours.

[Aristes]

I don't think that's bad, Meshugger, but I also think it's flawed. For example, a lot of teenagers don't have sex. *gasp* It's true. I mean, especially if that's an inclusive list between 13 and 19. Teenagers discuss sex a hell of lot more often than they have it. I mean, yeah, I could cite example from my own life that included sex during my teenage years, starting at 16. However, I know that my friends and I fixated on it a hell of lot more than we had it. Another thing is that, growing up during the cold war, my friends and I talked about what we'd do during an impending soviet nuclear attack. Fair enough, right? It was a genuine fear, but we mostly either joked about it or daydreamed about what we'd do. heh. However, while I don't worry about a soviet nuclear attack, I do worry about similar sorts of threats. Okay, in that regard, teenager and adult fears are the same. However, while I joke about it in a sort of dark humor way, I no longer day dream about the wonderful adventure of reclaiming the nuclear wastes. I look at it with out and out dread, thinking of what I'd do to protect my wife and make sure she had enough to eat. Before feminists bombard me with utterly stupid crap about my being 'macho' or some other nonsense, I sure as hell hope my wife would have the same concerns about me. There is no romance in the concept of a nuclear war.

 

My point is, I think your list is a great starting point for discussion, but I also think there's more to it. Hell, having been a teacher, I can tell you elementary students have ideas and discussions of sexuality, both girls and boys. Some of them even have detailed discussions with one another.

 

Haha, a friend of my wife's used to be a student councelor at an elementary school. She found out that some of the 5th grade girls were performing oral sex on some of the 6th grade boys in exchange for the boys' lunch money. Worlds oldest profession. They had to call in the cops and the parents and it was a complete mess. Luckily for the students, the records are sealed.

 

I actually would love to have a discussion about what constitutes mature and also a discussion of realism in games, but I'm afraid we're comletely leaving Dragon Age farther and farther behind us to do that. *shrug* I won't tell if you don't.

[RPGmasterBoo]

It doesn't matter what any of us thinks about it, we are all going to play it as soon as it comes out. Just look at the hype on this forum by itself.

 

Of course we are. We're pro RPG players and cant afford to skip a game on account of not liking it.

[Meshugger]

I don't think that's bad, Meshugger, but I also think it's flawed. For example, a lot of teenagers don't have sex. *gasp* It's true. I mean, especially if that's an inclusive list between 13 and 19. Teenagers discuss sex a hell of lot more often than they have it. I mean, yeah, I could cite example from my own life that included sex during my teenage years, starting at 16. However, I know that my friends and I fixated on it a hell of lot more than we had it. Another thing is that, growing up during the cold war, my friends and I talked about what we'd do during an impending soviet nuclear attack. Fair enough, right? It was a genuine fear, but we mostly either joked about it or daydreamed about what we'd do. heh. However, while I don't worry about a soviet nuclear attack, I do worry about similar sorts of threats. Okay, in that regard, teenager and adult fears are the same. However, while I joke about it in a sort of dark humor way, I no longer day dream about the wonderful adventure of reclaiming the nuclear wastes. I look at it with out and out dread, thinking of what I'd do to protect my wife and make sure she had enough to eat. Before feminists bombard me with utterly stupid crap about my being 'macho' or some other nonsense, I sure as hell hope my wife would have the same concerns about me. There is no romance in the concept of a nuclear war.

 

My point is, I think your list is a great starting point for discussion, but I also think there's more to it. Hell, having been a teacher, I can tell you elementary students have ideas and discussions of sexuality, both girls and boys. Some of them even have detailed discussions with one another.

 

Haha, a friend of my wife's used to be a student councelor at an elementary school. She found out that some of the 5th grade girls were performing oral sex on some of the 6th grade boys in exchange for the boys' lunch money. Worlds oldest profession. They had to call in the cops and the parents and it was a complete mess. Luckily for the students, the records are sealed.

 

I actually would love to have a discussion about what constitutes mature and also a discussion of realism in games, but I'm afraid we're comletely leaving Dragon Age farther and farther behind us to do that. *shrug* I won't tell if you don't.

 

Theoretically, it would still be about DA as long we were discussing in the context of how mature DA tries to be

 

Anyhoo, regarding sex, i think that it can be extended to responsibility to other and yourself. I think that you would agree that what two or more constent adults with each other is ok for the most part, but when is it juvenile interest or a mature decision? Sex aside, the same dilemma can be taken into account in matters as well.

[Oner]

Someone should make a sandbox RPG, in which you/'re woman gets pregnant, gives birth and if you don't care about the kid, he/she will become the big bad.

Wait, if you didn't care about the child then, than you wouldn't start caring now. :/

[Purkake]

Someone should make a sandbox RPG, in which you/'re woman gets pregnant, gives birth and if you don't care about the kid, he/she will become the big bad.

Wait, if you didn't care about the child then, than you wouldn't start caring now. :/

 

They already made Fable 2...

[Oner]

They already made Fable 2...

Wasn't the Big Bad older than you?

Wait, don't tell me

you were his kid?

 

[Bos_hybrid]

They already made Fable 2...

Wasn't the Big Bad older than you?

Wait, don't tell me

you were his kid?

 

 

Nope:

He just kills your sister.

Also dies from one hit.

[Volourn]

"It will be better than Mass Effect but that doesn't say much as Mass Effect was the worst game they ever made."

 

Nope. That's KOTOR.

[Purkake]

"It will be better than Mass Effect but that doesn't say much as Mass Effect was the worst game they ever made."

 

Nope. That's KOTOR.

 

I believe you are not familiar with

[Maria Caliban]

"It will be better than Mass Effect but that doesn't say much as Mass Effect was the worst game they ever made."

 

Nope. That's KOTOR.

 

I believe you are not familiar with

 

The people at BioWare were very upset when the MAKO concept demo was leaked.