DRAGON!

[Tigranes]

Are you actually willing to argue this point?

 

Yes. That identity was not necessarily unique, but it was a strong visual identity which rendered the Forgotten Realms in a very specific way (this was helped by the engine). When I am saying DA looks LOTRish I'm not actually comparing the scales on the orcs' shoulderpads or anything. Hell, LOTR had a strong visual identity. You could say it was generic but places like Minas Tirith, Hobbiton and the Dark Tower had a strong imprint. From what we've seen so far (and yeah, it might seem different when playing full ver), DA is a muddle.

[TheHarlequin]

Are you actually willing to argue this point?

 

Yes. That identity was not necessarily unique, but it was a strong visual identity which rendered the Forgotten Realms in a very specific way (this was helped by the engine). When I am saying DA looks LOTRish I'm not actually comparing the scales on the orcs' shoulderpads or anything. Hell, LOTR had a strong visual identity. You could say it was generic but places like Minas Tirith, Hobbiton and the Dark Tower had a strong imprint. From what we've seen so far (and yeah, it might seem different when playing full ver), DA is a muddle.

 

On a related note, you must be pretty excited production of the Hobbit is going to start in NZ within a year. Is there any pre-production work going on right now? I read they are going to rebuild the shire for the movie. I wonder if they are going to rebuild it fully or just the area around bilbo's house (dont recall from the book any need to do the full shire like in lotr but I could be wrong, been awhile since I read the book).

[Moatilliatta]

Yes. That identity was not necessarily unique, but it was a strong visual identity which rendered the Forgotten Realms in a very specific way (this was helped by the engine). When I am saying DA looks LOTRish I'm not actually comparing the scales on the orcs' shoulderpads or anything. Hell, LOTR had a strong visual identity. You could say it was generic but places like Minas Tirith, Hobbiton and the Dark Tower had a strong imprint. From what we've seen so far (and yeah, it might seem different when playing full ver), DA is a muddle.

You aren't really telling me anything.

 

How was BG showing the FR in a specific way? What specific way? As I remember BG had plate armour galore, log cabins in every frikking wood and supposedly medievalish cities that looked suspiciously modern. I'll admit that I remember the BGs as leaving more of an impression, but I'd much rather put that down to a seemingly higher quality art and the very good use of sounds and music to set scenes that seemed very traditionally lighthearted high fantasy. Surely I wasn't the only one staying a couple of minutes longer in the taverns and marketplaces to hear the music and try to make out the half-muffled sounds?

 

DA? I watched the trailer recently and the only thing I remember was the improbably sized holy grail knockoff that is almost certainly ceremonial in some inane way. Looking at it again I'd definately say that the dark horde guys (they seem to be the ones inducing ever so much nerd entropy) remind me much more of The forsaken in WoW than anything at all from LotR.

 

I can't really see that DA is more of a muddle than BG in any way but one, and that one has nothing to do with LotR, or anything else that has been mentioned. DA does seem to be suffering from a syndrome, that certain types of gamers like to identify as dark games syndrome. The name fits DA as little as it fits the other games that get accused of "being too dark", since it isn't dark, but is just genuinely boring and bland. Why are we using mostly earthy colours again? BG wasn't exatly 'pretty in pink' but you don't have to search long to find bright red or yellow colours. Or am I just not noticing them in the trailer?

 

This is a cool artstyle that fits a dark game:

Having light colours doesn't make the game 'not dark'.

 

This argument itself is pretty inane though since Bio have only ever impressed me with its art in Jade Empire and that must be judged to be mostly a fluke. Hopefully the actually tactical combat in BG weren't the same.

[kirottu]

Dragon Age has a dragon in it? I didn

[Musopticon?]

Woah, Evan Lahti of PC Gamer US really hasn't played any rpgs since BG. That's almost an achievement.

[Wrath of Dagon]

@Rhomal: Art direction is important, but being reminiscent of LOTR doesn't mean art direction is bad. Anyway, so far as I know there hasn't been a good LOTR RPG, so even if it was LOTR, what's the problem? Also, Medieval Fantasy, thus looking both fantastic and medieval, pretty much hard to escape LOTR comparisons.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Musopticon?]

I think Rhomal and co. are referencing to the LotR movies rather than the setting as a whole. The movies had a very distinct style that, somehow(lol), seeped into rpgs released after the movies. Oblivion is a good example, so is Dungeon Siege 2, Dragon Age is shaping up to be one as well

[Wrath of Dagon]

Actually Oblivion was more medieval and less fantastic, in fact I thought art design was competent but pedestrian, pretty much like the game itself. If anything it was similar to Morrowind, except prettier and higher res. I still don't see the problem with the art design of a game being similar to the art design of very successful series of movies. Nothing exists in a vacuum, and I don't see how it would prevent the game from being good so long as it has quality gameplay.

[Musopticon?]

I don't understand how you can compare the art style of Morrowind and Oblivion and digress by "it was similar[...] except prettier and high res". Vvardenfall is one of the most exotic places Bethesda has ever explored and the art style reflected that. Shroom cities, chitin armored desert cults, demons based on ash, massive arcologies facing against the traditional Romanesque fantasy empires. I still think the art direction was one of the highest points of the game. Minus the faces, urgh...

 

And as for Oblivion, I immediately thought of LotR movies from the first concept art(of a Gond...Imperial City guardsman IIRC) to the launch trailer which featured the same marble arches and stained white buildings that littered the movie trilogy. Not to mention, gone where the zany polyps and odd crustacean monsters of Morrowind and instead we faced goblins, wolves, ogres and skeletons in very earthly tones vey reminiscent of the fauna of the movies. They even revamped the Imperials into resembling their Gondorian counterparts, instead of the very Romanic imperials of previous Elder Scrolls games.

 

I mean, sure these are general features and the game had some uniqueness and even very inspired places(such as Dementia), but when I found a King of the Dead-lookalike in an Ayleid ruin, which in itself looks a bit too Noldorian to be accidental, my alarm bells went off completely.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Musopticon?

[Wrath of Dagon]

Well, may be I never got to the more exotic places in Morrowind, I spent a lot of time trudging back and forth across Vivec, argh.

Edited February 25, 2009 by Wrath of Dagon

[Musopticon?]

Yeah, well, Vivec was the arcology place, I understand how dreary studying floating city-size blocks of sandstone might get.

 

Though that played quite a bit into the good atmosphere the game had going, every locale from the east coast Telvanni shroom cities to dwemer tech ruins to the monasteries in the desert had a very different look. It was hard not to like the effort they put into making something original.

[Tigranes]

Yep, you can hardly compare MW's art style to Oblivion's.

 

Anyway, Oblivion is a good example of what I'm talking about. As WoD says, being similar to LOTR isn't bad by itself at all, but you walk around in Oblivion and you seriously get a feeling of "omg its like walking around in a generic derivative of that cool movie". Now, Oblivion was pretty, and since I *like* the art style of the LOTR movies it didn't put me off too much, but then that's because I wasn't expecting any good lore or plausible world building. It's sort of what I'm hoping for with DA and it just disappoints me that so far, they're putting out an art style that seems no more unique or clearly defined than that.

[TheHarlequin]

@Rhomal: Art direction is important, but being reminiscent of LOTR doesn't mean art direction is bad. Anyway, so far as I know there hasn't been a good LOTR RPG, so even if it was LOTR, what's the problem? Also, Medieval Fantasy, thus looking both fantastic and medieval, pretty much hard to escape LOTR comparisons.

 

Clearly you fail at reading comprehension. If you re-read my post you will see I said, and CAP the key point, "With that said I DO NOT think the art direction is bad for da I simply think it uninspired and gave me a feeling of been-there-seen-that."

[Oerwinde]

I'm excited because I like generic fantasy and I've enjoyed every RPG Bioware has released.

[Dark_Raven]

Even NWN?

[Killian Kalthorne]

Its a rip off of the "Faerie Queene!" A RIP OFF, MAN! OH NOES!

[Amentep]

Even NWN?

 

I enjoyed it and like Oerwinde I've liked all of the Bioware games I've played.

 

I wouldn't say its the greatest game in the world, but I did enjoy it.

[Dark_Raven]

I shouldn't have said NWN. Just mentioning of the game brings Volo here.

 

Bioware has had great games for the most part. Their crowning achievements being the BG series and Kotor. Lets hope DA lives up to that.

[Amentep]

I shouldn't have said NWN. Just mentioning of the game brings Volo here.

 

Bioware has had great games for the most part. Their crowning achievements being the BG series and Kotor. Lets hope DA lives up to that.

 

Yeah they've had some games better than others; hopefully DA will click on all cylinders.

[Volourn]

"Their crowning achievements being the BG series and Kotor"

 

KOTOR is their worst one that I played.

[Whipporwill]

I don't think I've ever played a genuinely medieval fantasy RPG. Instead of a web of feudal obligations and class divisions, we usually get a string of independent city-states a la ancient Greece. Better for "adventuring," I suppose.

[Amentep]

For me NWN was probably the one I had the most trouble with, but that's because I didn't find the OC as compelling (I did like both expansions) and I find the original BG just about impossible to play now (I can still play BGII, but usually give up in Throne of Bhaal).

 

Still I enjoyed them all and I'm looking forward to DA a good bit (and ME2). If I get the kind of enjoyment I've gotten out of NWN, BG, BG2, ME or JE, I'll be happy.

[Morgoth]

NWN was my first Bioware game, and thanks to NWN I became not only a Bio fanboy, but also an RPG gamer. Of course my opinion about NWN is different today, considering the changing standards and all.

[Volourn]

You mean you got brainwashed by the negative ninnies on the Obsidian forums in their anti BIO slobbering? That's sad.

[Morgoth]

I only remember that I got bashed a lot in the old BIS forums for liking NWN. Oh well...like I care.