FL Teen Commits Suicide Live On Web

[~Di]

There is no worse way to cause people you leave behind pain, and you're pretty much doing it on purpose. It's the most selfish thing anyone could ever do.

 

This kind of attitude just ensures some people will go through with the act, rather than seek help. It's like when a woman refuses to report a rape out of fear of how she will be judged. As long as there are people who will claim the way a woman dresses or acts makes her responsible for her attack, then victims will avoid seeking help. Someone who is suicidal is pretty much at their lowest point, the pain they feel is so great they are no longer able to bear it, it doesn't feel like it will ever pass so the only way for it to end is for their life to end. They feel weak and pathetic, and what do they have? A world that agrees with them.

 

If it were possible, I feel everyone who commits suicide should be ressurected and psychologically tortured for years.

 

So if someone you claimed to love committed suicide, and you were somehow able to bring them back to life, you wouldn't want to help them out of their depression, you'd want to see them tortured? That's pretty messed up. Yes suicide is selfish but god damn so is this.

 

Except none of this is new with the internet. Just like people were cursing and cutting in when driving chariots in ancient Rome, before highways and cars.

 

Road rage is the same as taking joy in someones misery?

 

My friend was in downtown Portland one day, and he and his coworkers were on some sort of scavenger hunt. He went off on his own route and saw a woman, another of his coworkers, at the edge of the street. He called out to her and said hello. Some time later she told him that when he saw her that day, she was about to jump in front oncoming traffic to kill herself, and that because he noticed her, she decided against it.

 

Even a small, seemingly insignificant moment of kindness can make all the difference.

 

Well said. I totally agree. The part I bolded is spot-on, and sadly it's the part too many people, being totally swept up in themselves, fail even to acknowledge.

[~Di]

Why would someone want to egg him on? Why would they watch him kill himself and even try to do anything about? The world just doesn't work anymore.

Because it's the internet. It's a false little reality where everything is a series of jokes and strange entertainment. Expecting sympathy or, really, anything of emotional sincerity from random internet browsers, in the context of the internet, is pointless.

 

stfu lol

 

I'm particularly surprised to hear this kind of callousness from you, Aram. It wasn't that long ago that you were deathly ill, facing procedures that would have terrified anyone. You came to us, to people on the forums, people you'd chatted with for years, for comfort and support. And we gave it. We worried about you, we thought about you, we prayed for you. For us, for you, it wasn't a series of jokes and strange entertainments. We empathized with you; we sympathized with you... with emotional sincerity.

 

It seemed to mean a lot to you at the time. I'm sad to learn otherwise.

Edited November 24, 2008 by ~Di

[~Di]

Well because you can recover from a depression, teenage depressions are a dime a dozen, it's nothing like a terminal cancer patient deciding he has simply had enough, which I would support wholeheartedly.

 

That's the thing. Clinical depression cannot be cured; it can be treated, however. A clinically depressed person cannot just "get over it" any more than a schitzophrenic can just "get over it." It's a diagnosed mental illness, and those who suffer from it cannot "recover" on their own. Teenaged depression and suicides are complicated by whacked-up hormones that basically mimic clinical depression. When the hormones level out, the depression may also ease... IF it's not the permanent kind of clinical depression.

 

I think people mistake clinical depression for the kind of depressions that all of us experience when we've been hurt, angered, experienced loss, that kind of thing. The two are similar in name only.

[Killian Kalthorne]

There is no greater ailment of the human condition that is misunderstood than mental illness.

[Volourn]

"Not to mention calling them cowards, that's pretty dastardly if you ask me."

 

But, they are. Suicide is an admittance that 'life is too hard' for you. Or the world 'isn't worthy of your presence'. It's the very definition of cowardly. There's no way around it. You certainly aren't brave.

 

btw, This doens't mean I'd *ever* encourage someone to commit suicide. In fact, i'd do quite the opposite (nor would I call them a coward while trying to help them since that be counter productive of course).

 

Still, bottom line, the one who chooses to commit suicide is 100% responsible for their actions.

[Trenitay]

It is 100% their fault, but I have sympathy for them. I have never seriously considered suicide a viable option but I used to think about it. I personally dont know how they go through with it but I really cant blame them.

[kirottu]

Why would someone want to egg him on? Why would they watch him kill himself and even try to do anything about? The world just doesn't work anymore.

Because it's the internet. It's a false little reality where everything is a series of jokes and strange entertainment. Expecting sympathy or, really, anything of emotional sincerity from random internet browsers, in the context of the internet, is pointless.

 

stfu lol

 

I'm particularly surprised to hear this kind of callousness from you, Aram. It wasn't that long ago that you were deathly ill, facing procedures that would have terrified anyone. You came to us, to people on the forums, people you'd chatted with for years, for comfort and support. And we gave it. We worried about you, we thought about you, we prayed for you. For us, for you, it wasn't a series of jokes and strange entertainments. We empathized with you; we sympathized with you... with emotional sincerity.

 

It seemed to mean a lot to you at the time. I'm sad to learn otherwise.

 

PWND LOL

[Volourn]

Slavery is wrong. It's immoral to support it any fashion. Di does NOT own Aram. So, you should apologize for suggesting she does.

[Blank]

I'm curious how many of the people here who have judged this guy to be deficient have

 

a) experienced clinical depression

b) had someone they care about have clinical depression

c) been seriously in the ****

 

Frankly, if you show me someone who kills themselves and someone who has no compassion for someone who wants to kill themselves, I'll tell you who I'd rather stayed alive.

:raises hand:

 

I've got a mixture of clinical depression (not actually so sure about this) and bipolar. under the wrong cricumstances it get REALLY bad (during the ejection from the navy I was hospitalized as a danger to my self and others by the navy psychiatrist after some... things were said between me and my father over the phone.)

 

I'm trying to find the right meds for my depression/bipolar, the ones I"m on now make me sleep (or REALLY REALLY want to) for anywhere between 12 and 15 hours.

In your case, it sounds like another difficult dynamic is added onto the hopelessness depression presents. I hope you find something that works for you.

 

From my experience, I can say that someone with severe clinical depression simply does see one's self under the wrong circumstances all the time, whether that perception is accurate or not (it usually is not). Herein lies one of the more insidious qualities of depression.

 

Regarding cowardice, selfishness, and hurting others: for someone who is acutely depressed, virtues do not matter, and other people tend to matter only as much as they can relieve the perceived pain at times. So go ahead and label that selfish and cowardly. Perhaps that is simply all depression is, but I will never shake the feeling that those labels seem inappropriately finite to me.

 

The pain of depression can seem transcendentally deep, and dark thoughts of anti-hope can be constantly processed by those depressed. I assure you, after a couple years of persistent patterns of thinking grimly and feeling bleakly, a person's spirit wanes. Thus I propose that if someone were to perceive a pain and torment so radical, that person would not so easily label someone else who has committed suicide on account of severe clinical depression.

[Hiro Protagonist]

I'm too much of a coward to commit suicide.

[Hiro Protagonist]

He's 100% responsible for his actions. His own perceived weaknesses led to his suicide. Instead of blaming others, he should be the one blamed. He took the coward's way out. Sorry, i feel sorry/pity for him; but if we are gonna play the blame game, it's 100% his.

 

Would you be able to take your own life? Otherwise you're a coward!

[Volourn]

"Would you be able to take your own life? Otherwise you're a coward!"

 

Hey, sometimes life sucks. Suck it up, and deal with it. Afterall, my life ain't perfect. Afterall, if it were, I wouldn't be wasting it here. L0L

[Guard Dog]

For all those who view suicide as a hurtful, selfish, or spiteful act I'd point out one thing. Ninety five percent of those who make that decision do so with a brain that is not functioning properly. Most of them do not consider the feelings of others at all becase they cannot, or worse, think they are doing others a favor by removing themselves. For my part I'd find it hard to cast aspersions on the motivations of someone whose reasoning is impaired or whose brain is not firing on all cylinders as it were.. In that situation I'm not sure suicide is even an affirmative act. Plus, there are a number of drugs I've heard advertised that actually induce suicidal thoughts as a side effect. Simbalta is one I believe.

 

Now those that consider suicide after a sharp emotional pain like boyfriend/girlfriend breaking up, financial loss, divorve, etc. That is just foolish. There is no pain that copiuous amounts of alchohol cannot wash away.

 

Suicide as a response to terminal illness, or exterme physical pain and suffering is a whole different matter. I must admit, if I were in a situation like that, it is an option I'd consider if there were literally no hope of recovery. Better a short quick end than a long agonizing one.

[Gorgon]

It's about brain chemistry, or so my sister says, she's finishing her BA in psychology. With the right medication a clinical depression can be medicated away, with the side effects of the medication to consider of course. A brain scan will diagnose it, and no amount of therapy will work on the core problem, which is medical, not psychological.

 

Well obviously both, but for the purposes of identifying the cause, it's medial.

Edited November 24, 2008 by Gorgon

[Hell Kitty]

Now those that consider suicide after a sharp emotional pain like boyfriend/girlfriend breaking up, financial loss, divorve, etc. That is just foolish.

 

Now that you've listed things it would be foolish to kill oneself over, how about a list of things you'd find understandable? That way if anyone ever wants to confide in you that they are having suicidal thoughts, they'll know whether you're likely to sympathize with them or dismiss them as a fool.

 

It's probably also important to point out that thinking about suicide is not the same thing as feeling suicidal.

[Guard Dog]

Now that you've listed things it would be foolish to kill oneself over, how about a list of things you'd find understandable?

 

I did "Suicide as a response to terminal illness, or extreme physical pain and suffering is a whole different matter."

 

That way if anyone ever wants to confide in you that they are having suicidal thoughts, they'll know whether you're likely to sympathize with them or dismiss them as a fool.

 

It's probably also important to point out that thinking about suicide is not the same thing as feeling suicidal.

 

Fair enough. I replaced "consider" with "commit" because you are correct, there is a huge gap between thinking it and seriously contemplating doing it or actually going through with it.

[Hell Kitty]

Now that you've listed things it would be foolish to kill oneself over, how about a list of things you'd find understandable?

 

I did "Suicide as a response to terminal illness, or extreme physical pain and suffering is a whole different matter."

 

That's the difference between suicide and euthanasia, what I'm asking is if killing oneself over the "sharp emotional pain" of the things you listed is foolish, what sort of "sharp emotional pain" is it not foolish to end ones life over? A friend comes to you and tells you that they are feeling this pain, it's becoming to much to bear and they don't think they can go on living as long as they feel this way. Would you ask what it was specifically that caused this pain, so you can properly judge whether or not they are being foolish? Do you think that your judgment would help someone who was truly feeling suicidal?

 

I'm stating the obvious here, but people feel differently, react differently to all sorts of things. What seems like nothing to one person might be a huge deal to another. If someone is happy, it doesn't matter if what made them happy seems silly to you. If someone is sad, their emotional state is no less valid if what made them sad wouldn't have affected you. Claiming that someone is wrong (foolish) for feeling the way they do is, well, rather foolish, because if they really are depressed all you are doing is feeding that depression.

 

None of the things you listed would cause an emotionally/mentally healthy person to suddenly turn suicidal, but to someone truly on the edge it can tip them over. It's not any one thing that makes a person suicidal, though, and it's not what those things are that matter, but how they make them feel, and telling them how they feel is wrong is only going to make matters worse. For example, a man loses his job, his wife leaves him, and he's in financial ruin. Being clinically depressed, he already believes himself to be worthless and pathetic, unable to cope, and in his mind these things serve to confirm that. And to top it off he has a world that agrees with him. "Yes, you are a coward, you don't have what it takes to face your problems." "Yes you are a fool, you shouldn't feel this way."

[Blarghagh]

I honestly don't think suicide is as bad as you guys are making it out to be. What's selfish is you saying that they were selfish and hoping they could be revived just so they could endure torture for a number of years. Real humanitarian right there.

 

I never said I was a humanitarian. I said this because I've seen and experienced what it does to those left behind. I don't care if you guys don't agree with me - I think if you are weak enough to hurt people this much just so you don't feel pain you pretty much deserved everything you felt and more. I've seen the reactions a school full of people give when they hear a friend of them commited suicide and it is *much* more cruel than what I said should happen to this guy. There is no clearer way tell someone that their love and friendship is just not worth living for, which is something that will psychologically torture all those people for years to come. Look one of those people in the eye and say you understand. I ****ing dare you.

 

Enough of this ****. I don't come to a video game developer's forum to deal with the reality of existence. I get enough of that from my shrink.

[Aram]

I'm particularly surprised to hear this kind of callousness from you, Aram. It wasn't that long ago that you were deathly ill, facing procedures that would have terrified anyone. You came to us, to people on the forums, people you'd chatted with for years, for comfort and support. And we gave it. We worried about you, we thought about you, we prayed for you. For us, for you, it wasn't a series of jokes and strange entertainments. We empathized with you; we sympathized with you... with emotional sincerity.

Well, that's true. Though again, with threads like "lol my hair's falling out" I was looking more for entertainment and idle chat than anything, which was probably valuable enough going stir crazy in a hospital. I guess the difference is if it's a close nit community or a completely nonsense place like a blog or a WoW forum.

[kirottu]

WoW is balls.

[Pope]

If you gotta go, you gotta go.

[Aram]

WoW is balls.

Total balls.

[Volourn]

"Ninety five percent of those who make that decision do so with a brain that is not functioning properly. Most of them do not consider the feelings of others at all becase they cannot"

 

I've heard the same thing said about serial killers... I still say they are 100% responsible for their actions. Everything we do is based on our individual brains. *shrug*

[~Di]

I'm particularly surprised to hear this kind of callousness from you, Aram. It wasn't that long ago that you were deathly ill, facing procedures that would have terrified anyone. You came to us, to people on the forums, people you'd chatted with for years, for comfort and support. And we gave it. We worried about you, we thought about you, we prayed for you. For us, for you, it wasn't a series of jokes and strange entertainments. We empathized with you; we sympathized with you... with emotional sincerity.

Well, that's true. Though again, with threads like "lol my hair's falling out" I was looking more for entertainment and idle chat than anything, which was probably valuable enough going stir crazy in a hospital. I guess the difference is if it's a close nit community or a completely nonsense place like a blog or a WoW forum.

 

I'll give you that. Many of us who have "known" each other for years have formed a close-knit community. We do care about each other. I think that having people to talk with, even over the internet, about things that we might withhold from our families... gotta be strong for them, after all... is valuable, as is the support we can get from even a cyber-circle of friends. God knows that I was scared to death for you, and couldn't have been more relieved at your positive outcome if you had been one of my own family members.

 

Thing is, obviously this poor kid... and thousands like him... do not have a support system for a safety net. They don't have a group of friends, cyber or otherwise, to whom they can turn for aid and support. That is to be pitied, in my opinion, not used as an excuse to withhold empathy, and to ridicule or insult. Certainly we won't be heartbroken about a person we do not know; but we shouldn't be so callously judgmental either, I think. We haven't walked in his shoes. We don't know how much pain he was in. Only he and his god knew. I hope he's at peace now.

 

Anyway, I was offering another point of view to the "he's just a fool and a coward" mode of thought that seemed to be prevalent in this thread.

Edited November 25, 2008 by ~Di

[Tigranes]

They don't have a group of friends, cyber or otherwise, to whom they can turn for aid and support. That is to be pitied, in my opinion, not used as an excuse to withhold empathy, and to ridicule or insult.

 

Yes. And that is, as always, one of the most important things you need in life.

 

If you don't have that, it could be argued that it's your fault / the onus is on you... but blame is rather parochial at that juncture.