US Presidential Elections

[Walsingham]

Am slowly warming to the idea of Obama. I know i don't agree with his views on Iraq and Afghanistan. But there ARE other issues at stake than just the war. It's not so much that I think Obama is a great good man, it's more that I think that he may be forced to act as one, if he gets people's hopes high enough.

[Atreides]

It seems to me Obama's good with inspiring speeches but hasn't gone much into the details. Change is nice, but what change exactly? Details pls. And lots of that. He'll have time to get into that. Hopefully.

 

I'm not sure if he's fully articulated the effects of some of his policies like immediately pulling out of Iraq either. Details pls.

 

Not sure if McCain's any better on giving solid answers though.

 

Otherwise his campaign will turn out like the South Park zombies going around asking for "change".

[Humodour]

As Gravel said: "A politician who rides on the promise of hope by the youth and ultimetely fails, will commit the worst sin a politician can do. He or she will create a generation of cynics"

 

Wise words.

 

 

We're living in an era of cynicism right now, it oft seems.

 

Not in Australia, really. We've had about 15 years of prosperity and success. It will be interesting to see how we fare the next 5 years; what goes up must come down... or at least stabilise to equilibrium (more likely scenario).

 

But yeah, it certainly seems Europe has an era of cynics, from my perspective as an observer. I'm concerned about how Europe will handle it's drastic population ageing and population implosion issues.

 

Am slowly warming to the idea of Obama. I know i don't agree with his views on Iraq and Afghanistan. But there ARE other issues at stake than just the war. It's not so much that I think Obama is a great good man, it's more that I think that he may be forced to act as one, if he gets people's hopes high enough.

 

Agreed.

Edited June 5, 2008 by Krezack

[Meshugger]

As Gravel said: "A politician who rides on the promise of hope by the youth and ultimetely fails, will commit the worst sin a politician can do. He or she will create a generation of cynics"

 

Wise words.

 

 

We're living in an era of cynicism right now, it oft seems.

 

Not in Australia, really. We've had about 15 years of prosperity and success. It will be interesting to see how we fare the next 5 years; what goes up must come down... or at least stabilise to equilibrium (more likely scenario).

 

But yeah, it certainly seems Europe has an era of cynics, from my perspective as an observer. I'm concerned about how Europe will handle it's drastic population ageing and population implosion issues.

 

Am slowly warming to the idea of Obama. I know i don't agree with his views on Iraq and Afghanistan. But there ARE other issues at stake than just the war. It's not so much that I think Obama is a great good man, it's more that I think that he may be forced to act as one, if he gets people's hopes high enough.

 

Agreed.

 

I am currently very, very furious over the Lissabon agreement. This has made me a cynic, there is no or little debate in the mainland Europe about the whole thing, and i find it very appaling that our own government has said that "all finns agreed with that since we vote 'yes' on the referendum to join the EU".

 

More referendums, less central control. No one in their clearest mind think that giving the people less to say on such matters as such of a new European constitution is something of "The will of the people". ESAD to everyone in the european parliament who agrees with no referendum on the Lissabon agreement, ESAD.

 

/head explodes

[DeathScepter]

It seems to me Obama's good with inspiring speeches but hasn't gone much into the details. Change is nice, but what change exactly? Details pls. And lots of that. He'll have time to get into that. Hopefully.

 

I'm not sure if he's fully articulated the effects of some of his policies like immediately pulling out of Iraq either. Details pls.

 

Not sure if McCain's any better on giving solid answers though.

 

Otherwise his campaign will turn out like the South Park zombies going around asking for "change".

 

 

I like you already.

 

 

 

I do think todays candidates are poor.

 

 

 

We have grandpa, Mickey Mouse with a pretty voice, and A lesbian Lady Macbeth.

 

 

Which one I want?

 

 

I don't want any of them.

[Tale]

It seems to me Obama's good with inspiring speeches but hasn't gone much into the details. Change is nice, but what change exactly? Details pls. And lots of that. He'll have time to get into that. Hopefully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_pos...of_Barack_Obama

[DeathScepter]

wikipedia is not always accurate. So If I were you, take everything in wikipedia with a grain of salt.

[Arkan]

wikipedia is not always accurate. So If I were you, take everything in wikipedia with a grain of salt.

Feel free to ignore the 157 references, though.

 

You could also check out his website where he has all of his stances on issues readily available.

[Enoch]

wikipedia is not always accurate. So If I were you, take everything in wikipedia with a grain of salt.

Feel free to ignore the 157 references, though.

 

You could also check out his website where he has all of his stances on issues readily available.

Also, I've got to imagine that presidential candidates have people monitoring changes to their guy's wiki entry (they'd be pretty dumb not to), and are quick to undo any misleading edits.

[Enoch]

By the way, I have now decided that I really hope that Barack Obama win the presidency, and that the first words of his acceptance speech are "'Scuse me while I whip this out..."

[Guard Dog]

By the way, I have now decided that I really hope that Barack Obama win the presidency, and that the first words of his acceptance speech are "'Scuse me while I whip this out..."

 

[Humodour]

wikipedia is not always accurate. So If I were you, take everything in wikipedia with a grain of salt.

 

 

That argument gets less and less valid every time I hear it. Wikipedia is a peer-review system with millions of eyes on it. Not only do edits get fixed, but vandalism isn't permanent and if you are concerned about validity, just check the page history and talk page. Not to mention the references.

 

Wikipedia is fine source of information and it's fine to link to it. It just shouldn't be your only source (nor should you use it in academia - instead use the sources cited).

[Tale]

I actually have had instructors take their lessons from Wikipedia. It's fascinating some times. I personally always try to check the source before I cite it if I'm making an argument. But when someone simply has a question, it's a fine casual answer.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

That argument gets less and less valid every time I hear it.

 

Not really - the well reasoned arguments against Wikipedia have not changes much over time, although you are correct that mistakes are likely to be found by someone.

[Zoma]

It seems to me Obama's good with inspiring speeches but hasn't gone much into the details. Change is nice, but what change exactly? Details pls. And lots of that. He'll have time to get into that. Hopefully.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_pos...of_Barack_Obama

 

And you can find here too http://www.barackobama.com/issues/ , which had been there for a long while. I'm always shaking my head whenever people claims Barack did not go into details when his website has the specifics of it.

[Jorian Drake]

 

*grin*

[Atreides]

Hey thanks for the links. I'll scrutinize them when I have more time.

 

In the meanwhile here's something that somewhat agrees with my desire for details, and articulated comparative cost-benefit analysis with other plans.

 

Economists usually get bonus points from me.

 

Call the bluff on campaign fluff By Gary M. Galles

Fri Jun 6, 4:00 AM ET

 

 

 

Malibu, Calif. - Many of us have had the experience of really trying to listen to a politician give a speech and yet walk away feeling they may not actually have said anything.

 

It's too bad, especially in this election cycle, when so much seems to ride on choosing between candidates. How can we make informed decisions when we don't understand positions?

 

The answer: Start thinking a little more like economists

[Bass-GameMaster]

Obama is a liberal he will tax everybody so bad we will regret having him. He is like another democrat before him who I forget the name of, who believed in the community and all that good stuff so he could get elected. Then his 4 year term was the downfall of business because increased taxes means more government money which weakens the economy. John McCain is a 22 year veteran who has served in the vietnam war and was a POW for 7 years. That is the kind of man you want running the country, someone who's previous accomplishments scream NATIONAL SECURITY. That is exactly what Obama is failing and will fail at if elected. So Obama is christian, he just left his old church.. hmm how convenient. He claims he christian but his name still is Barac Housein Obama. You know what that means??? HES NOT CHRISTIAN. When you transfer religions from muslim to anything or anything to muslim you are forced to change your name because it must fit your religion. So if hes christian why is his name still have muslim writted all over it.. Because hes a phony, his father lives in like kuwait and is also muslim. So if you guy's want to hand the enemy the title of President.. your asking for it.

[Sand]

McCain will continue Bush's failed policies. The Republicans had thier shot with Bush and they failed. Its now the Democrats turn. If Obama doesn't gt things changed around then we will vote for someone else in later on, but I am willing to give Obama and the Democrats a chance. They can't do a worse job than Bush when it comes to the economy. Oil being the highest it has ever been, the Dow being its lowest yet this year, and unemployment rising to new height.

 

Also I don't give a crap what religion the guy has. I rather vote in an Atheist than a Christian, Muslim, or whatever. I place Islam about the same rung as I do Christianity. Also this is the US, not some theocracy. You don't have to change your bloody name just because you pick up a different faith. How very archaic of you to even think so. Why don't you join the 21sdt century, bub.

Edited June 6, 2008 by Sand

[SteveThaiBinh]

Obama is a liberal he will tax everybody so bad we will regret having him. He is like another democrat before him who I forget the name of, who believed in the community and all that good stuff so he could get elected. Then his 4 year term was the downfall of business because increased taxes means more government money which weakens the economy. John McCain is a 22 year veteran who has served in the vietnam war and was a POW for 7 years. That is the kind of man you want running the country, someone who's previous accomplishments scream NATIONAL SECURITY. That is exactly what Obama is failing and will fail at if elected. So Obama is christian, he just left his old church.. hmm how convenient. He claims he christian but his name still is Barac Housein Obama. You know what that means??? HES NOT CHRISTIAN. When you transfer religions from muslim to anything or anything to muslim you are forced to change your name because it must fit your religion. So if hes christian why is his name still have muslim writted all over it.. Because hes a phony, his father lives in like kuwait and is also muslim. So if you guy's want to hand the enemy the title of President.. your asking for it.

If you don't want lots of taxes, then vote Obama in as president and give Congress to the Republicans. I thought that was what usually happened anyway.

 

The name thing is just too ridiculous for a coherent response. And Barack Obama's father is dead. Stop listening to loony-right hate attacks and educate yourself.

[Tale]

Yeah, that comment was so silly I had to youtube cat videos to calm myself down.

[Meshugger]

Obama is a liberal he will tax everybody so bad we will regret having him. He is like another democrat before him who I forget the name of, who believed in the community and all that good stuff so he could get elected. Then his 4 year term was the downfall of business because increased taxes means more government money which weakens the economy. John McCain is a 22 year veteran who has served in the vietnam war and was a POW for 7 years. That is the kind of man you want running the country, someone who's previous accomplishments scream NATIONAL SECURITY. That is exactly what Obama is failing and will fail at if elected. So Obama is christian, he just left his old church.. hmm how convenient. He claims he christian but his name still is Barac Housein Obama. You know what that means??? HES NOT CHRISTIAN. When you transfer religions from muslim to anything or anything to muslim you are forced to change your name because it must fit your religion. So if hes christian why is his name still have muslim writted all over it.. Because hes a phony, his father lives in like kuwait and is also muslim. So if you guy's want to hand the enemy the title of President.. your asking for it.

 

Do:

 

1. Go to school, or the nearest university library

2. Read books on political science and history

3. Read some litterature

4. Read some philosophy

5. Question everything

 

Do not:

 

1. Read blogs

2. Read conservopedia

3. Watch any commercial news channel

4. Listen to your pastor for political advise, or your family, nor your friends

5. Ridicule other people for their beliefs

 

Come back after you have done as i mentioned on my list. Take your time as well, not for everyone elses sake, but for your own.

 

Thanks!

Edited June 6, 2008 by Meshugger

[Pop]

As it looks like the Democratic nomination will be decided here in Denver ( as it may be too close to call ), I will wager you a $100 Visa card that ( no matter what ) Hillary will be the nominated candidate for the Dems. Decision to be arbitared here by the members of this forum. I will send you the account numbers and ex date of the card I purchase to support my claim.

Oh, absolutely. If people want to give me money, more power to them.

Oh hai.

 

I'm here to collect my winnings.

[Sand]

BWAAAHAAAAHAAAAAA!

[Tale]

whoooo