Evolution, creation or something else?

[Sand]

Oh, leave the Mayans out of this, Taks.

[taks]

if you discuss religion long enough, the mayans are always in there...

 

taks

[Sand]

True enough.

 

If the world doesn't end in 2012 I will be sorely disappointed.

[Xard]

Gahh, sorry for spelling errors. I had certain problems with... concentration at the moment.

 

Hmh, I guess we should try making list of all that'll happen in 2012

 

- Aliens attack

- Third World War begins

- World ends

- Possible Harmageddon

- Duke Nukem Forever

- Microsoft publishes their follower for Vista after years of setbacks

- robots rebel and stuff

 

Hmh, it's going to be one busy year

Edited July 24, 2007 by Xard

[Musopticon?]

-Apparently the re-tuning of the world

[Calax]

I agree.

 

Only religion that truly makes sense is Buddhism, and even it (like Hinduism) counters one major problem: Number of people are constantly growing. Remembering every people continue to reincarnate again and again until they can break away from cycle of rebirth and be free, total amount of humans should stay same, actually microscopically decrease with every now and then someone becoming Buddha (and thus one of the reincarnating soulss is no more part of the world).

 

And you can't really use decreasing number of animals as counterargument ("souls dwell nowadays more in humans than in animals"), since number of animals in extincting (did I just invent new word? =P ) won't match huge increase in overpopulation of this planet.

 

Also, I'm not even 100 % if souls reborning ( laws of karma being the judge of course) as animals as well as humans is part of Buddhism, or is reincarnating human only thing in Buddhism. I could check this out, but I trust our walking encyclopedia meta or someone else knowing the answer and thus saving my time

 

Otherwise Buddhism is quite as "sensible" religion as it can get, being more like philosophy than religion. Also, newest scientific foundations in fields of cosmology really challenges linear time view common in monoteistic religions, but fits with cyclical time views like in Hinduism, Buddhism etc. (I couldn't make simple Western-Eastern division here, since old greek had cyclical time view, and I bet some indians did too)

 

Idea of "quantum soul" fits even better in Buddhism than let's say, Christianity.

 

Also, by all means energy seems to be something that exists and always has (matter, after all, is energy ). It is said God is omnipresent, omniscience and omnipotence, something just exists and always has.

 

Judging by this, I say it is just as likely for energy to be something that has always existed as some personal God.

 

You could make energy some pantheistic God without consciousness. After all, consciousness is not something absolutely necessarily for God in pantheism. Fits with "did God have choice in creation" (free quoting) by Einstein as well. Subconscious creating yadda yada... That also fits with Buddhism and somewhat with Hinduism too.

 

Greatest "threat" for pantheistic all compassing energy God is possible existence of Dark Energy, but it's existence isn't even sure. Yet. Maybe never be. Maybe there'll be alternate explanation for certain oddities and Dark Energy will be buried in annals of false theories. Who knows.

the thing is that while the population of humanity grows, the population of otherthings lessens

Edited July 25, 2007 by Calax

[Xard]

And you can't really use decreasing number of animals as counterargument ("souls dwell nowadays more in humans than in animals"), since number of animals in extincting (did I just invent new word? =P ) won't match huge increase in overpopulation of this planet.

[Hurlshort]

I'm not incredibly knowledgable on Buddhism, but I'm sure assigning a static number to available souls is missing the point.

[taks]

- Duke Nukem Forever

that's awfully presumptuous.

 

taks

[Xard]

Yeah

 

Actually I fear little bit for my life, I mean, if we don't get DNF in 2012 I'm going to get stoned for being false prophet

 

edit: Who killed ph34r emoticon!

Edited July 25, 2007 by Xard

[julianw]

And you can't really use decreasing number of animals as counterargument ("souls dwell nowadays more in humans than in animals"), since number of animals in extincting (did I just invent new word? =P ) won't match huge increase in overpopulation of this planet.

I am sure Buddha has a secret soul reserve bank. Some souls turn into hollows too and then eat other souls. You simply can't manage without some sort of backup.

[Meshugger]

And you can't really use decreasing number of animals as counterargument ("souls dwell nowadays more in humans than in animals"), since number of animals in extincting (did I just invent new word? =P ) won't match huge increase in overpopulation of this planet.

I am sure Buddha has a secret soul reserve bank. Some souls turn into hollows too and then eat other souls. You simply can't manage without some sort of backup.

 

 

 

No worries, Zaraki Kenpachi will put those hollows to rest

[Xard]

Oh I'm sure Buddhist...ermm... churches, have their explanation but I'm very interested in knowing it and how strong their argument is.

 

It could be very weak (ie. my "souls dwell nowadays more in humans than in animals") or then it might make sense. Maybe now and then there will born new souls? But how exactly that would happen, won't it go against core pillars of buddhist worldview etc. etc.

 

Also, I'm talking about Buddhism in its original, "pure" form which is much more like philosophy than religion. Without ghosts, monsters, heaven, hell and "stuff".

[julianw]

Oh I'm sure Buddhist...ermm... churches, have their explanation but I'm very interested in knowing it and how strong their argument is.

 

It could be very weak (ie. my "souls dwell nowadays more in humans than in animals") or then it might make sense. Maybe now and then there will born new souls? But how exactly that would happen, won't it go against core pillars of buddhist worldview etc. etc.

 

Also, I'm talking about Buddhism in its original, "pure" form which is much more like philosophy than religion. Without ghosts, monsters, heaven, hell and "stuff".

Can't believe that you took my ridiculous "hollow" comment so seriously. You must thought a lot about this particular subject. There is no uniformed view on the subject of the soul in the Buddhist community since the religion has now branched into so many schools, so you probably won't get an official explanation concerning your question; but if you ever get one, please keep us posted.

 

In my personal opinion, you probably want to look into this place called the soul society. All these souls just sit in that place and they must get bored...

[Xard]

Sounds a bit like Adam Kadmon. By the name. Then I read the article.

 

I didn't take hollows of your comment (of course) seriously, but it reminded me that stuff like hollows really became part of buddhist "folklore" later on.

 

Hmh, I guess you should be right about that there's no uniform view. But since reincarnation & stuff related to it is same to all (well, nearly all, of course there must be some niche cults ) branches of Buddhism (like believe in Jesus Christ as son of God in all Christian churches) there COULD BE unified view on matter.

[Musopticon?]

I never thought that there was a base in folklore for the whole hollow thing. I did notice swastika in Ichigo's Zangetsu, but didn't realise the buddhist roots ran deeper.

 

Serves me right for constantly underestimating Tite Kubo.

[thepixiesrock]

Oh, how I'll love you

[Blarghagh]

I don't know if someone has brought this up in this thread before because it is far too long to completely go through, but what is it with all the creating and beginning in this thread?

 

Why does everything have to have a beginning? Why can't something just be there? Be eternal? Or is that too big a concept for way too many human minds to wrap themselves about?

[Musopticon?]

The latter.

 

Otherwise we would never have cut the atom.

[Arkan]

I don't know if someone has brought this up in this thread before because it is far too long to completely go through, but what is it with all the creating and beginning in this thread?

 

Why does everything have to have a beginning? Why can't something just be there? Be eternal? Or is that too big a concept for way too many human minds to wrap themselves about?

 

 

It is not that it is too big a concept for humanity to wrap its head around. Moreso that man has the insatiable need or urge to "know" things. And simply accepting that something has always "just been there" is...well...not acceptable.

[Deadly_Nightshade]

What exactly is intelligent design?

 

Intelligent Design, also known as I.D., is a laughable farce created in an attempt to reinstate Creationism into the educational system.

[taks]

Otherwise we would never have cut the atom.

what's interesting about that phrase, as well as the more common "split the atom," is that neither allows a full understanding of the magnitude of that feat. not just in theoretical or scientific terms, but in terms of the immense amount of energy that is released when something as small as an atom is simply... cut... in half. BAM!

 

edit: i think we need to coin a new term to describe what happens when an atom is split in twain... "so then we kajama'd the atom" or something...

 

taks

Edited August 1, 2007 by taks

[Xard]

I never thought that there was a base in folklore for the whole hollow thing. I did notice swastika in Ichigo's Zangetsu, but didn't realise the buddhist roots ran deeper.

 

Serves me right for constantly underestimating Tite Kubo.

 

You might be giving him (her?) too much credit, I'm not sure is there some creature in wapanese folk lore that's exactly like hollow. But things similar to it are. Or too less credit if you're looking from side of originality instead of cultural knowledge.

 

But my mistake really, way I wrote it looked like I said hollows are part of Budhist folk lore, my bad

 

If one wants to have entertaining look into japanesefolk lore and myths you should pick some Rumiko Takashi's work. Especially InuYasha (which I don't like though) is full with traditional monsters & stuff from weird mix of Buddhist and shintoist legends (line is pretty blurred between them anyway).

 

edit: Gah, is the word shintoist or what

Edited August 1, 2007 by Xard

[Musopticon?]

There must be something wrong with your head, recommending Inuyasha?

 

It's "shinto legends".

[Xard]

Ouch

 

No I don't recommend InuYasha. At all. It's as average as it can get IMO.

 

Shinto legends... Ok thanks

Edited August 1, 2007 by Xard