Convert or Die!!!

[Dark Moth]

LINK to BBC article

 

The Sabian Mandaeans - one of the oldest religious groups in the world - are facing extinction, according to its leaders.

 

They claim that Islamic extremists in Iraq are trying to wipe them out through forced conversions, rape and murder.

 

The Mandaeans are pacifists, followers of Adam, Noah and John the Baptist.

 

They have lived in what is now Iraq since before Islam and Christianity.

 

More than 80% have been forced to flee the country and now live as refugees in Syria and Jordan.

 

Even there they do not feel safe - but they say western governments are unwilling to take them in.

Just another blemish on what has become the ugly face of Iraq. If you're not shocked yet, just read what they did to the kid. I think it also helps to bring a reality check to those who still think the insurgents are merely "protecting their land" against US occupiers.

 

The main reason I actually posted this though, is that I think this underscores a deeper problem in Iraq, which I've been saying for years now. That is, tribal hatred. Unlike Afghanistan, Iraq is marred by ethnic (and religious) prejudices that go much further back than Saddam's rule. As sad as it is to say, Saddam, as terrible as he may have been, might have actually kept the Iraqis from tearing each other apart through his own brutal reign. :sad:

 

This is very sad, but it strongly reminds me of Blackhawk Down. Ask an Iraqi Shiite on the street, and they'll say they want peace. However, ask them if they're willing to share power with say, the Sunnis, or any so and so religious group, don't be surprised if they utter a big fat 'NO!'.

 

I guess the question is, with all this prejudice in mind, helped in no small part by the power vacuum created after the U.S. invasion, can true peace be achieved anytime soon? Furthermore, will the U.S. actually be able to do anything about it?

 

*Minor note: Please try to keep any religious trolling to a minimum. This goes doubly for you, Sand.

[Walsingham]

I got the Blackhawk Down reference! See aso the 112 shiites killed just now in an explosion. I've no doubt there is violence aginst people who see us as occupiers, but the main drift seems to be some kind of hellish Balkan style ethnic cleansing.

[Sand]

This is one of the many reasons why I was againstthe war. Saddam was a brutal dictator, yet he maintained control and stability while Bush and his cronies brought6 in chaos and destruction. Only the Iraqis can give themselves peace and stability. It cannot, will not be forced upon them. No matter how many troops Bush brings in the ethnic divisions will tear that country apart anbd to think otherwise is being naive. The US may be a melting pot, but Iraq is not.

 

I do think that their will be peace, eventually, but only when one faction is dominant and can brutally bully others into place. Much like what Iraq had prior to Bush's invasion. If people can just learn to leave each other alone a lot of the problems over there, and here, would probably not exist.

Edited March 6, 2007 by Sand

[astr0creep]

It is to the advantage of the west that this region of the world be kept in chaos.

While they're tearing each other appart and not looking at us, we can freely plunder their ressources for our own greedu little needs.

 

[Gfted1]

This is one of the many reasons why I was againstthe war. Saddam was a brutal dictator, yet he maintained control and stability while Bush and his cronies brought6 in chaos and destruction. Only the Iraqis can give themselves peace and stability. It cannot, will not be forced upon them. No matter how many troops Bush brings in the ethnic divisions will tear that country apart anbd to think otherwise is being naive. The US may be a melting pot, but Iraq is not.

 

 

Make up you mind. Or is this more of your tried and true "The US cant do nothin right!"?

 

@astr0creep: There is something to be said for "fighting the enemy there or we will be fighting the enemy here" reasoning.

[astr0creep]

@astr0creep: There is something to be said for "fighting the enemy there or we will be fighting the enemy here" reasoning.

 

Sure.

 

That's why tomorrow morning I'll be at your front door waiting to punch you in the face.

Because I want your computer.

[Gfted1]

@astr0creep: There is something to be said for "fighting the enemy there or we will be fighting the enemy here" reasoning.

 

Sure.

 

That's why tomorrow morning I'll be at your front door waiting to punch you in the face.

Because I want your computer.

 

Ha, thats what you think smartypants. Now that Im aware of your nefarious plan I will look through my peephole and turn the sprinklers on. Sorry it had to come to that but you brought it on yourself.

[Volourn]

"Saddam was a brutal dictator, yet he maintained control and stability"

 

O RLY? No, he didn't. He maintained power; but Iraq hasn't been stable in decades throughout his rule. Know your history. And, there was quite a bit of chaos, and destruction during his watch as well. *shrug*

[steelfiredragon]

the islamist say they are peaceful, but to convert anyone by force is not peaceful, and some islamist do just that, and killing in the name of god.

 

in life there are two ways

1: do things by the edge of a sword knowing that you will get it in the end.

2: by diplomacy, the pen is mightier than the sword

[Azure79]

Everytime I read something like this, I question whether religion or any other faith based system does anything except create intolerance and hatred.

 

We obviously have a long way to go. I only hope we don't obliterate ourselves first.

[Sand]

This is one of the many reasons why I was againstthe war. Saddam was a brutal dictator, yet he maintained control and stability while Bush and his cronies brought6 in chaos and destruction. Only the Iraqis can give themselves peace and stability. It cannot, will not be forced upon them. No matter how many troops Bush brings in the ethnic divisions will tear that country apart anbd to think otherwise is being naive. The US may be a melting pot, but Iraq is not.

 

 

Make up you mind. Or is this more of your tried and true "The US cant do nothin right!"?

 

@astr0creep: There is something to be said for "fighting the enemy there or we will be fighting the enemy here" reasoning.

 

Saddam was an Iraqi, not an outsider. Only the Iraqis will be able to bring stability to their region if they choose it and not any outside power that forces it upon them, may that be the US or not. Do I need to explain everything to you or are you just acting thick-headed on purpose?

[Dark_Raven]

the islamist say they are peaceful, but to convert anyone by force is not peaceful, and some islamist do just that, and killing in the name of god.

 

in life there are two ways

1: do things by the edge of a sword knowing that you will get it in the end.

2: by diplomacy, the pen is mightier than the sword

Just history repeating itself with a different religion. Christians did the same thing with Pagans and heretics in the past.

[Sand]

Religion is often used to justify one's violent and brutal actions against another who does not share the same faith. Then again, if they didn't have religion to use they would use something else.

[Dark_Raven]

Everytime I read something like this, I question whether religion or any other faith based system does anything except create intolerance and hatred.

 

We obviously have a long way to go. I only hope we don't obliterate ourselves first.

Religion = evil

 

Whats the main cause of wars, death, destruction and the suffering it brings right now? Religion.

 

If there was such a thing as god/s and I was their god, I would have deserted my flock a long time ago for bastardizing my message of peace and kindness.

 

Convert or die. This is the way of love and peace.

[Tale]

the islamist say they are peaceful, but to convert anyone by force is not peaceful, and some islamist do just that, and killing in the name of god.

 

in life there are two ways

1: do things by the edge of a sword knowing that you will get it in the end.

2: by diplomacy, the pen is mightier than the sword

Just history repeating itself with a different religion. Christians did the same thing with Pagans and heretics in the past.

They didn't get all of us!

 

Who wants a pamphlet?

[Sand]

Everytime I read something like this, I question whether religion or any other faith based system does anything except create intolerance and hatred.

 

We obviously have a long way to go. I only hope we don't obliterate ourselves first.

Religion = evil

 

Whats the main cause of wars, death, destruction and the suffering it brings right now? Religion.

 

If there was such a thing as god/s and I was their god, I would have deserted my flock a long time ago for bastardizing my message of peace and kindness.

 

Convert or die. This is the way of love and peace.

 

I disagree. I think the main cause for war, death, and destruction comes from the fact that humans can't leave each other alone. They have to interfere in everything, even when they have no business or right to interfere in the first place. Religion is just a convenient tool to justify that interference. If we humans didn't have religion we would just use something else to justify such brutality.

[Atreides]

Sometimes you got to wonder whether they're that crazy to pull stuff like this. Sadly some people don't know how to use freedom and there are others with an agenda to keep each other fighting.

[Azure79]

Everytime I read something like this, I question whether religion or any other faith based system does anything except create intolerance and hatred.

 

We obviously have a long way to go. I only hope we don't obliterate ourselves first.

Religion = evil

 

Whats the main cause of wars, death, destruction and the suffering it brings right now? Religion.

 

If there was such a thing as god/s and I was their god, I would have deserted my flock a long time ago for bastardizing my message of peace and kindness.

 

Convert or die. This is the way of love and peace.

 

I disagree. I think the main cause for war, death, and destruction comes from the fact that humans can't leave each other alone. They have to interfere in everything, even when they have no business or right to interfere in the first place. Religion is just a convenient tool to justify that interference. If we humans didn't have religion we would just use something else to justify such brutality.

 

Differences in political ideology FTW.

[Sand]

Its the old Blue versus Red mentality. Humans are a violent creature by nature and will always be aggressive towards those who are deemed different, may that difference be religion, political views, physical appearance, or whatever.

[Volourn]

Really? I don't feel naturally violent. In fact, people who use violence tick me off, and make me want to beat the crap out of them!!!

Edited March 7, 2007 by Volourn

[Sand]

Thus you use violence.

[Calax]

This is very sad, but it strongly reminds me of Blackhawk Down. Ask an Iraqi Shiite on the street, and they'll say they want peace. However, ask them if they're willing to share power with say, the Sunnis, or any so and so religious group, don't be surprised if they utter a big fat 'NO!'.

 

I guess the question is, with all this prejudice in mind, helped in no small part by the power vacuum created after the U.S. invasion, can true peace be achieved anytime soon? Furthermore, will the U.S. actually be able to do anything about it?

*twitch*

 

If you asked the VERY SAME question to any of the people in power currently they'd tell you no, then run off and make several laws that said that nobody other than a certain ethnic/religious group would be able to attain power (admittedly they oculdn't do it now without at least one senator being tossed from office)

 

I'm fairly certain that in most countries that have such deep devides you'd find the same thing, not just between Shiites and Sunnis, but between catholics, WASP's, Flying spagettii monsterarians, british Jedi, Jews, neo-nazis...

 

Anyone would say that if they were allowed to answer unfettered by any sort of inhibition or consequence. The only difference in america is that our system of government forces politicians to plaster a smile to their face and say "I love you" to anyone and anything with the ability to vote.

[taks]

you're sorely mistaken if you really think the divides in any developed country even come close to comparing to those in third world locales, particularly one such as iraq. sorely mistaken...

 

taks

[Calax]

you're sorely mistaken if you really think the divides in any developed country even come close to comparing to those in third world locales, particularly one such as iraq. sorely mistaken...

 

taks

then why are the Irish fighting the brits?

[steelfiredragon]

the islamist say they are peaceful, but to convert anyone by force is not peaceful, and some islamist do just that, and killing in the name of god.

 

in life there are two ways

1: do things by the edge of a sword knowing that you will get it in the end.

2: by diplomacy, the pen is mightier than the sword

Just history repeating itself with a different religion. Christians did the same thing with Pagans and heretics in the past.

that is true, though we did it to the jews too, but i wouldnt considier them heretics or pagans.