NWN2: Forumite Impressions

[Kelverin]

( And, there has yet to be a worthwhile SP player made module (or MP one for that matter, r00fles!) either.

That you have played more than 10 minuites?

[Volourn]

No modules have been good enough yet. I'd have no problem playing a module for more than ten minutes if the module made it worth my time.

 

P.S. Even my crappy non finished NWN1 mod is better tahn any NWN2 module thus far. And, that is with it being both *crappy* and unfinished*, and being pretty much *vapourware*.

 

 

Mayhaps, when the POR remastered NWN2 module is finished, it might be fun to play it again.

[Big Bottom]

Why? As a SP, the OC was fun once and then that was it. :'( And, there has yet to be a worthwhile SP player made module (or MP one for that matter, r00fles!) either.

 

NWN2 has only been out 3 months, I'm not saying there'll be hundreds of outstanding modules soon but there'll be some. There might even be premium modules.

 

Anyway I'd still like to see the MP issues sorted, the game won't last long if people can't play it online.

[Volourn]

Well, it could.. if some good SP modules come out.

[Kelverin]

NWN2 has only been out 3 months

This is why I am willing to cut these creators some slack. Hell I still have never finished a fan made mod from NWN. (Yes I played them more than 10 minutes)

[Pidesco]

Looks like patch 1.05 will be awesome.

 

And another big thing we're adding in 1.05 is support for multi-select, both as a DM, but also as a normal player, to make it easier to control your party.

 

Awesomeness!

[Xard]

ZOMG! (w00t)

[Aegeri]

I'll keep my comments brief until I've finished the entire game, but overall I'm fairly satisfied with NWN2 though it has some really irritating flaws. Overall, I would put the game somewhere between Baldurs Gate and Baldurs Gate 2. I don't think it manages to achieve the same level of DnD on a computer awesome BG2 did (which is a high demand to be honest), but it's quite a substantial game with lots of things you do making a difference to the gameworld/interaction with it. The OC of NWN2 is far and away better than the original campaign of NWN though, which is a really good thing.

 

Overall good job Obsidian.

 

Now I just look forward to releasing my converted PnP campaign using the toolset

 

[PS: I need Mariliths and Yuan-ti, hint hint ]

[Walsingham]

I've got stuck due to a bug in the game (temple challenges), so am endeavouring to tackle the toolset. I may be sick with flu, but COULD IT BE MORE CONFUSING? I mean, for starters I feel as if I have cataracts in my eyes. Why is it so dark? I've managed to work out how to create an indoor terrain, and am adding alls etc, but I can barely make oiut what they look like. NWN1 and other generators don't force me to up the gamma whatever on my bloody monitor!

 

However, bugs aside (and you REALLY need to patch asap if you buy or you'll miss most of the good added bits and pieces), I'd say it was good. My biggest beef would have to be characters being forced in and out of your party. I understand the charisma party limit, but those party members are my FRIENDS. I don't see why some new wannabe should upset things. I dislike intensely having to make room for them by turfing out characters while I am bonding with them. On the plus side (and it's a big plus) this does mean you will like many of the characters. Grobnar is excellent, even though he doesn't fit into my current party, and although there's no Minsc, you will like people.

[Wistrik]

Obsidian needs to do some serious code optimizing for 1.05 (they apparently did nothing in this regard for 1.04) or I won't be playing the game again until whenever I decide to upgrade my computer (despite the game's graphics, it's heavily CPU-bound; 2Ghz doesn't quite cut it, but OC 2.22Ghz is much better). Everything else I enjoy playing gives me good frame rates with all options maximized and no need to OC, so NWN2 gets to collect dust on the shelf. The trees look better thanks to 1.04 but that's about it. I saw three buttons in the Options screen that had no text labels, so I have no idea what they're for. Possibly camera settings, since I wasn't able to get the camera down to ground level in my brief test. I was too disgusted with the performance (having played HL2 and EP1 for the last two weeks) to play any further.

 

On the plus side, this gives me time to work on my D2 sets. Thanks for that much, Obsidian

[Pop]

@ Wistrik - Did you have any mods in place before you patched? I had a pretty minor expanded deity list mod that I implemented before patching to 1.3, which is the patch that added those 3 buttons. Instead of getting no text explaining the buttons, I got text describing different racial pantheons. So maybe the broken buttons have a conflict with custom content. You should try rolling back the patch, removing the mods, patching again, then modding again, but I think that it's not a big enough deal to justify that kind of effort.

[Slowtrain]

That's what, 5 patches now. Impressive. I mean, its sad that the game needs 5 patches, but at least the patches are happening. I may even buy th egame one of these days. Hopefully for cheap.

[Dark_Raven]

5 Patches is nothing. Look at Diablo 2 with 10. NWN has quite a few also.

[Sand]

Well, so far I am fairly happy with NWN2's patching process and I hope they continue it just as long as Bioware did with NWN1. There is only one way they can improve on it. Let us have Critical Rebuild patches.

[Bokishi]

5 patches in 3 months is a lot, but it's good.

[Volourn]

The more patches the better. Many stuff in NWN1 patches, and even in NWN2 patches thus far aren't neccessarily bug fixes either.

[Big Bottom]

I don't see the problem with multiple patches, the only bad aspect is the 56kers who have to download huge files. Personally I like the fact that the game is getting updated constantly.

 

But then I have broadband.

[Oerwinde]

5 Patches is nothing. Look at Diablo 2 with 10. NWN has quite a few also.

 

Didn't Starcraft have like 17?

 

Theres always going to be something you can fix, no matter how much you patch.

[Lokey]

5 Patches is nothing. Look at Diablo 2 with 10. NWN has quite a few also.

Closing in on 30.

[Dark_Raven]

I knew it was some ridiculously high number.

[Weiser_Cain]

I like patches, I have more than one game here that needed a patch and never got one, I never bought a game from them again.

[Aegeri]

Well, I finished the game a while ago so here are my general comments, without spoilers as a rule:

 

1) Overall, the game is pretty decent and feels like it was trying to be a successor to Baldurs Gate 2. This is not a bad thing, because I think BG2 was one of the best "DnD" style games around and highly entertaining.

 

2) Combat is awful however. Unlike BG2, there are few entertaining battles in the game and I often felt the developers had to resort to blatant rules abuse/cheating to make some encounters actually difficult. The fight against

Koraboros

was about the most entertaining fight in the game. I would much prefer TB DnD combat, particularly with the feats I find most tactically interesting like trip implemented.

 

3) The forced NPCs were just...urgh. This was by far and away the worst aspect of the game. Honestly, forcing me to take a Cleric who is almost utterly useless (Str 10) in any front line position is just really annoying. A str 14/16ish cleric with a simple bulls strength buff is very effective, but 10 is just crippling. This also compounded the fact there were a few NPCs who were really worthwhile to have in the party, IE: excellent statlines and useful class abilities, while others were just not worth including. That you were subsequently forced to take some useless NPC for the ride critically weakened my party on several occasions. I found myself rushing through areas to get rid of the baggage as soon as I could.

 

This is NOT a good thing.

 

4) Generally on NPCs, some of them are written well and others not so well. It's a bit of a mixed bag but is generally good. Sand makes hillarious comments at times and I thought that Khelgar had some depth (in fact, he was given a large amount of depth in game).

 

5) I will never forgive whoever designed the Orc caves and warehouse whackathons. I've never encountered more blatantly boring, uninspired designed dungeon hacks in virtually any game before. Whoever thought mowing through large numbers of Orcs that seemingly respawn (RESPAWN?) in places was amusing is grossly mistaken, but eclipsing this in magnitude for sheer 'awful' factor was by far the warehouse. Playing through the good path, it's filled with rogues who seemingly get sneak attack damage even when you know they are there (no comment should be required about what I think of this) or alternatively watchmen+clerics with irritating debuffs. Oh and they appear to respawn in places in both cases as well, further adding to the level of aggravation this insipid 'dungeon' crawl causes. Honestly, in all of the CRPGs that I have played, the warehouse and orc caves stand IMO as some of the worst designed areas I've encountered. The orc caves are too long, filled with too much monotonous hacking of the same dumb threatless enemies, while the warehouse is just a ridiculous excercise in frustration with the never-ending respawning enemies (in places) and non-sensical massacre it turns into. Surely the city watch would care that you've just engaged in this gigantic butchery of over 30+ watchmen and have a bounty on your head/attack you on sight. It just plain doesn't make any sense and clearly degrades verisimiltude. At least when you're butchering the rogues it makes some sense that the local militia isn't trying to run you out of the city.

 

6) Another big problem is how the city watch/thieves guild quests basically turn into mirror images of one another, just with different massacres. This was disappointing.

 

7) The best part of the game was by far the trial. This was incredibly well done, thought through and written. It's such a shame the game couldn't have featured more of this and less of the insipid orc tunnels/warehouse slashathons. I'm still impressed at the various ways the trial can resolve itself and how different actions throughout the game (leading up to the trial) and statements in it can make a considerable difference. The trial by combat part was the let down, with the developers artificially making the combat hard by having some sort of stupid rage invincibility (which I still don't quite get how this works). Not that it mattered, I just used the grasping hand spell and completely butchered him without threat. However, I really want to emphasise that this was arguably the best part of the game and some of the most interesting use of dialogue in a CRPG that I've ever played. It redeemed (IMO) most of the pain of the overly long and hackathon filled first act.

 

The stronghold was well done and I liked this aspect a lot. I don't really get the impression my hard work in upgrading the keep and inviting in the extra-planar mage/monk was really that worth-while though. Still, I really did enjoy having the keep and I am certainly thinking of putting a stronghold into my own campaign as a result.

 

9) The final fight was meh. Yet another puzzle bop-athon, however the option to

join in with the shadow king and annihilate all your companions was really welcome. I love the evil ending especially and I hope if you make an expansion that follows on, you hold the evil ending as canon and not the good ending. The evil ending makes the entire game very interesting along the sword coast and provides a really powerful set in villian and loads of plot hook potential. I would definitely stick with the evil ending

.

 

10) Even though I've done a lot of complaining, I would like to emphasise I enjoyed NWN2 and I think it did really well in providing generally flexible choices to the player. One thing I despised and the thing I disliked the most about the game was the fact that if you're a mage and you talk to the guy with the sword of cutting you up +10, you end up right in front of him. Meaning that if your PC is a fragile class like a mage, you are at the front of every single combat and given that a lot of conversations before a fight are forced, it can be extremely aggravating. Add to this the fact the AI tends to 'lock on' and chase incessantly the first character that comes into range, this becomes a really annoying excercise in running around until the enemy eventually gets bored/kills you/you kill it. This was vastly irritating and I now understand why Baldurs Gate 2 did things the way it did: It may be entirely unrealistic, but it works just so much better.

Edited February 7, 2007 by Aegeri

[Atreides]

6) Another big problem is how the city watch/thieves guild quests basically turn into mirror images of one another, just with different massacres. This was disappointing.

I haven't played the thieves path yet but different viewpoints on the same (inevitable?) events seems like fun to me. The events are going to happen, it just depends which side uses you.

[Yst]

Thoughts on NWN2:

 

Pros:

- The stronghold was definitely a nice touch.

- The Trial was a nicely scripted and gratifying episode, with some worthwhile characters (Sand, Torio) involved.

- Some of the NPCs (Sand, particularly) are written respectably well.

- Shandra is an uncharacteristically human character, for an RPG character. This was nice to see. It's always a great relief to see an RPG character written as a person, and not as merely an exaggeration of a stereotype of a caricature of a fantasy archetype.

- Interaction with the community and the active and productive patching process is nice to see.

 

Cons:

- Dialogue writing is a hit and miss affair. Some characters certainly hit, as I've suggested. But the PC's dialogue, on the other hand, is a train-wreck. Some of the PC's dialogue is written so poorly...it's hard to imagine it having been written by someone who was attributed the title 'writer' (even in a project-specific capacity) and given money in return for their services. Was someone's 14 year old kid hired over the summer to do the PC dialogue for a big name RPG? Truly, that's how it reads. The variation in quality is the odd thing. As I say, some of the NPCs are just fine. Then I encounter lines of PC dialogue which I would consider to be somewhere slightly beneath a middling High School level writing proficiency.

 

Comments:

- Multi-Select coming in 1.05 is a very, very welcome addition. Ideally, this should have been there from the start. But it's nice to see it coming, even now.

- I enjoyed the OC once, but I'm somewhat surprised to find myself concluding that, ultimately, I simply can't see myself playing the OC ever again. The good dialogue served its purpose, while the bad (mainly PC) dialogue was painful, and the whole of it simply doesn't strike me as an exercise worth repeating. And that disappoints me, somewhat. While this game was understood to be a substantially player-content-driven product, I'm sad to find myself dismissing the OC as something not even worth remembering, after only one run through.

[aVENGER]

Dialogue writing is a hit and miss affair. Some characters certainly hit, as I've suggested. But the PC's dialogue, on the other hand, is a train-wreck.

 

IIRC, the companion (joinable NPC) dialogues were written exclusively by Chris Avellone while most of the other lines (PC dialogue, item descriptions, some cutscenes) were done by different writers.