50 Reasons Why NWN1 is better than NWN2

[Cantousent]

You know, the basis of this thread really doesn't have anything to do with a comparison between NWN and NWN2. The real point of the thread is to trash NWN2.

 

You know, some folks prefer NWN and others prefer NWN2. A little debate or contention over the issue isn't such a bad thing. However, framing the conversation by stating, in your original post, that NWN2 is "[ b]oring, Linear, Ugly, Non Immersive, Easy, and Annoying..." doesn't sound promising as a rational foundation for a discussion of fine points.

 

I like NWN2 better, but I can still accept reasonable arguments on either side of the issue. I seriously doubt rift can make such a claim in light of his initial post.

[Llyranor]

Time-travelling lizards rock. They rock so hard they deserve to be included in a sequel. Since NWN2 didn't give them that honor, I feel it falls on my shoulders as Obsidian CEO to bear that responsibility and do them justice for my mod.

 

Time-travelling lizards 4 life.

 

By mere association, NWN1 has the greatest plot of all time.

[Gorth]

Linear.... my first thought when completing chapter in NWN1

But you could still explore... Now your path is formulaic and pre-defined.

 

You've got to be kidding if you suggest that NWN1 wasn't

 

 

The UI is awesome and logically put together. Finally they got rid of that god-awful killer of joy, the radial menu

Not for ease of use, effeciency ect. And you're way out numbered on this one. See bioware forums.

 

Why would I go there? My time is too precious (unless like now, waiting for a ride into the city)

 

Yes, in NWN1 they knew exactly how to make the worst possible decision at any give time. This time around, they actually have a personality and you can vent a bit by beeing mean to them if they piss you off

AI is almost as big a complaint as UI.

 

The only good AI i've seen was in a shareware game released in 1986 (Mech Force by Ralph Reed), The rest are all found lacking. I still don't see how you could justify that as a bullet point in a comparison.

 

I remember a bunch of near identical armours with a few colour changes here and there. Only difference was which arms went with which legs and so on. All exceedingly ugly.

That's nice but now there's even less options and everyone has round shoulder pads.

 

I guess arguing tast in fashion is a bit pointless...

 

 

You should try the skill "Spellcraft"

What does making saves versus a spell have to do with me bineg unable to visually identfy them and them being generally ugly vfx?

 

It tells you in written text which spell is being cast?

 

Ahh, I see. You are the professional giving the poor amateurs instruction on how to do their job. I'm sure they are now going to listen to you with reverence

Actually when it comes to models and texturing, yes ..I can. My portfolio at CG Society http://gkaine.cgsociety.org/gallery/

 

Nice gallery. Xsi is fairly decent at animating and zbrush is a favourite for morphing meshes and displacement maps. Now try do the same in a low poly game engine enviroment with whatever rigging and shaders the engine programmers give you.

 

 

We got it, you are the authority on the subject. The part of your resume that details your career exploits in professional game animation must be staggering. Again, does wonders for your credibility

it's my opinion that the animations are much worse than in NWN1 ..yes. Have you any experience with animationg or modeling to question my judgement? It's subjective in any case, I prefer the smoother more natural appearing animations of NWN1 yes.

 

I made a living doing computer special fx. and animations for 3 years from 1986 to 1989 for tv stations and studios on software that I was also contributed to the development of (on a mainframe system) ? Now I only do it as a hobby as I'm generally too busy working in software development. I do miss the days of sitting and waiting for the production renders. Made for a lot of coffee and alcohol drinking.

 

 

Yeah, it sucks, doesn't it. Makes the game completely unplayable out of the box.

Didn;t say that but it does suck quite a bit from my perspective to take out such a 'glaring feature' as roshan put it.

 

From your perspective... fair enough. No point in arguing subjective points.

 

Emotes? Who cares?

I do.

 

See comment above.

 

 

To get rid of the god-awful Diablo like inventory tetris of the first game ?

In my opinion it is worse to have your items all the same size and all so small you can't quickly identfiy them yes. In multiplayer online speed is important. I suppose since you languish and sloth about offline and can afford to play without the challenges of online play you may not need a change and can remain apathetic.

 

Getting all personal now, aren't we. Apologies for not joining your whining.

 

 

Yes, yes, we got it the first two times. Your skills in implementing those features in the game engine are way superior since you claim them to be amateurs.

No, I simply pointed out this is why NWN1 was better. Bioware managed to do it.

 

Damn, you didn't include the original point and I can't be bothered to dig through all your trash again to see what it was.

 

 

Yeah, Nasher sure lived in a peasant hut. As did some of the other people in Blacklake district.

Far less furnishings. Less theme sets, trust me I mod and I know. You don't so dont know.

 

Fair enough, I bought the game to play it, not to mod it. I did that mistake with NWN1.

 

 

Anybody actually use those?

Everyone complainging about it at Bioware. Where have you been?

 

Not there. Otherwise you don't need to know.

 

 

Yeah, 5-10 seconds are unbearable. Online players are an insignificant minority. It's declared target group this time around were the players who actually play the game (while still enabling people to do modding).

I doubt Obsidian thinks of multiplayers as insignificant, despite that you cant play online yourself.

 

They did say something to the effect (paraphrased) of catering to the game players first and foremost (having been screwed over by the first game) and then then everybody else second.

 

Oh ****, my face looks like me :'(

Is this a valid argument where you're from?

 

I'll try to keep the sophistication levels a bit down next time. You might get it then.

 

 

And the multiplayers are... insignifcant compared to the singleplayers in numbers.

So according to you Obsidian should ignore the multiplayers altogether and not fix those things?

 

Only as a second priority.

 

 

The biggest problem here is that they recycled any at all. Most of the NWN1 stuff that wasn't outright bad was forgettable. Crossing fingers and hoping to never hear Aribeths grating voice again in any game/mod/whatever.

Outright bad? Forgettable? The Scores that drew rave reviews in the awards Bioware won?[/b]

 

Which really makes you question the objectivity and brown nosing of the gaming press.

 

It was an impressive amount of hype surrounding it though.

 

 

You are cheating. Comparing to Kotor2 now, are we? That makes it 49 ridiculous claims why you think NWN2 is worse than NWN1, not 50

Unlike NWN1, you can at least use dialogue for something in NWN2.

Yeah shame on me for making fun of the dialog...

 

Shame on you for being a liar.

 

 

Shudders at the thought of Deekin with wings. I can see how it is problem though, that they tuen a D&D game into a D&D game.

Since when was Deekin an RDD? I'm talking about the PC characters, your hero..yknow..hellooo?

 

My bad, I remembered a conversation with someone who suggested adding PRC to Deekin (being a bard, he could theoritically be a RDD too).

 

 

For a self proclaimed superior game developer and animator, it shouldn't really be a problem. Ask Oerwinde if you need some hints.

My point is it's a step backwards to intentionally ommit ease of use. and indirectly occlude so many from being able to mod.

 

And ease of use is ease of use for you I take it...

 

 

The pause button is your friend.

Not online it's not

 

:'(

 

 

Since cleave (especially greater cleave) is a sequence of events happening out of turn, enlighten us, oh guru of game desigen, how would you illustrate those 20 out of turn attacks without just being a blur?

With a ghosted transparanet image to simulate ovement.

 

So, you would cheat and add a substitue for the animation?

 

 

Or it could be a deliberate attempt at distancing itself from the menu system of

NWN1. Radial menus still brings back bad memories.

What do radial menus have to do with unorganized feats selections at the character creation screen?

 

Slowly: Perhaps they want to distance themselves from the way it was done in NWN1 ?

 

I remember a bloodcrazed dwarven monk yelling "Death and Damnation" and bashing my poor crates to cinders...

If you doors were bad, you should try fighting Gazebos. I know a cleric named Eric that would love to have you in his party.

That's funny and all but I still get stuck in doors.

 

A pat on the back to the first modder who comes uop with a Greataxe+2 of Door Slaying.

 

 

No comment. Still to try actually creating a finished module. Modding doesn't interest me.

That's nice,it does me. And probably half of the community.

 

Define community.

 

 

Ah yes, multiplayer... I've heard rumours about those things happening.

You mean "the death of"?.

 

I mean multiplayer games.

 

 

I hated it as much as I did in BG2. Damn nearsighted elves can't see more than 30 meters without turning blind.

No Fog of war..in an RPG..

 

Fog of war is nice in a strategy games where you and your enemy can use it as an asset. It sucks in rpgs.

 

 

I see, you love the load times, so it doesn't bother you to experiment a bit every now and then with different tactics and then reload?

Rigth i enjoy endless load times from subpar games when my computer is maybe the best thing on the market today.

 

You missed the point.

 

 

Peat moss and straw is a very common building material on the Sword Coast ?

Not uncommon for mediaval buildings to share a certain similarity in building style and materials.

You sounds like a sleezy car salesman trying his best to sell me a lemon. The truth is, no..it's not ok for every single roof to be the same, or every single building for that matter.

 

Ah, getting personal again, aren't we. Not much joy in your life II take it.

 

Yeah, it really sucks playing on those 42" plasma screens. Modes disappearing completely off your field of vision.

No, just 20' and it's worse than it was before.

 

What is "it" ?

 

 

The ultimate in immersiveness. Peasant executions. Personally I'm a campaigner for more Ritual Virgin Sacrifice ™ in crpgs, but nobody listen to that either.

At the very least it's realistic. If you're going to take away exploring off of paths, don;t ALSO take away my freedom to kill at will.

 

Try Postal and Postal 2, they might be more your genre.

 

 

Yes, a fundamental need to behead innocent peasants in coop, how dare they? Blame it on the all being leftist reactionary Californians. If that fail, play the "Terrorist" card. Make sure those peasants suffer.

The principle. If I want to do that in an RPG, I should be able to do it. If I'm evil, if I just feel like it there should be no reason not to.

 

Perhaps they are just being nice to the less than experienced players who would likely shoot themselves in the foot 90% of the time, as that is what random murders usually leeds to. Chop off head of random peasant. Get picked up by city guard. Get hanged. Reload from last save. Only makes sense in a game like Fallout.

 

 

Believable, maybe. That would make them ugly but believable.

NWN1 weapons were accurate in many cases and both attractive and beleivable. Now swords are just 1 mm slabs of granite. Theyre neither attractive or beleiveble.

 

My green slime (I think it was acid) dripping sword in NWN1 *sure* did look realistic. I'll agree though that the NWN2 weapons are sorry excuses for blades.

 

 

Since most of my memories of NWN1 are bad, I would rather compare it to the IE games, they were nice.

The RPG of the Year Award say if you didn't like NWN1 in the minority there.

The RPG of the Year Award tells me it was a particularly crappy year to be a crpg player.

 

 

Caster was not a viable option in NWN OC because of the god-awful radial menu system. Not even with a lot of quickslots used.

Not from my experience.. the quickslots did fine. No one used the radial menu in combat, only to set things up when one had time. Casters suck now since the brutally strict adherence to 3.5 they don't have enough spells to dfend themselves or win any substantial battles. In NWN1 you could literally fight alone if you knew how to build, now? pfft Casters blwo so abd now they need a party even with the best build.

 

I played it as a fighter/mage and ended up giving up on the magic, just playing it as an underpowered fighter. It was still an easy game though.

 

 

Now we are getting somewhere. There is no option for g-strings and chainmail bikinis... this is probably more a reason for resentment than many of the other pointless points (I might add that it would have been nice with a dial to adjust breast and male genital size too).

No, it justtadds to the sense of realism. And convinces me the modelers knwo what theyre doing, which hasn;t happened yet.

 

Perhaps they wanted to make sure that the ESRB doesn't come breathing down their neck. Remember which country Obsidian is located in.

 

 

This such an outright lie, that I can't even be bothered to post screenshots of 1985 games.

How would you know? You admittedly don't PVP, mod, or much of anything else from what I've heard.

 

Because I sure as hell did play a lot of computer games from 1983 to 2006 ?

 

Good riddance to squares, tiles, 45 degree ramps, etc. If they did a minimap like in IWD2 however...

Circular minimaps with no path revealing is as pointless as throwing a circular blob up there..oh wait, they did that ..nm.

 

In the end, it didn't matter what map option they went with. Somebody is bound to whine. If not you, then somebody else. Too square, too circular, too big, too small, too detailed, too little detail, too

 

 

Haven't run across that one.

I have a few quest items in my inventory that I can't sell, so I just dump them in my favourite barrel.

Quest Items in barrels and you have no complaints...If all NWN fans were as easy to please as you Obsidian could put put Gauntlet 1 and name it NWN2 and youd be ahppy.

 

Why should I? I didn't need them anymore and the barrels deserved part of the loot too.

 

 

And if somebody releases a CEP for NWN2 in a few years time, who knows? It might have some interesting stuff in there too.

But no custom models...one of the main things the CEP team worked on..

 

Dunno, I downloaded the CEP for NWN1, but never got around to install it.

 

 

So, we are now down to 38 reasons as this is just repetion. You like hearing your own voice much?

That's the best argument you could come up with? Is your well running dry? Actually you;ve yet to argue anything, it's been all apathy on your part up to here.

 

You've yet to present 50 reasons why NWN2 is worse than NWN2. Does that make you a liar or just pathetic?

 

 

As in? The cameras are great, both pre- and post patch.

lol...Obsidian we finally found one. Someone that liked your pre-patch cameras.

 

You might be surprised to see that there are more people in the world than those who sing the same song as you.

 

 

I remember how NWN1 felt incredibly dull and uninspired. I managed through teeth grinding and an inbred stubborness to persevere until mid chapter 4 after which boredom won out and the game got uninstalled, never to return (and good riddance).

You're right about the NWN1 OC to some degree, but online play and custom content is what fuels these games for the long haul. Don't forget that.

 

That was not why I bought NWN1. Fool as I was, I bought into the Bioware hype and expected a great adventure out of the box.

 

 

I've never had anything as low as 20fps on either game.

How nice for you, I get 15 fps on a system that blows yours away.

 

Bloody hell, how do you know my system specs. Time to search for trojans again I think. Or are you just making stuff up again?

 

 

Essential combat bugs? I've found one noticable bug so far (during scripted party changes, you added party member leaves his/her brain back in the inn and gets stuck in puppet mode).

Read the 1.03 patch list you'll see what I'm talking about.

 

I can't be bothered. I installed the 1.03 beta patch for the conveniance of dual wielding in my quickslots and the AA.

 

 

Maybe, but the sorry excuse for a game leading up to that "glorious" ending (whatever it might have been) does require a lot of redemption from the ending.

It was rushed..

 

They should just have sold it as a toolkit.

 

 

Because D&D games are (losely) based on D&D rules?

Since this is a duplicate, we are now at what, 47?

Even Bioware knew overbearing Adherence to the rules didn;t translate to the game. They got that right. Obsidian got that wrong.

 

And you know exactly that Hasbro doesn't give a damn about what develoeprs do with their IP and other things with the D&D logo on it?

 

 

A sequel will due to it's nature of being a sequel rqarely ever have the "Wow" factor.

That's untrue, and frankly sounds a inexperienced and misinformed. I was "wowed" by BG2, Oblivion, World of Warcraft and a host of other games that other's were also "wowed" by.

 

Sounds more like you are a reading impaird besides a notorious liar. I'll admit that I spelled "rqarely" wrong, but with a bit of cogitive effort, you might be able to see past the typo and substitute the word "rarely" as in not always but more oftern than not the case over a broad base of comparisons of orignals and sequels.

 

 

Boring, Linear, Ugly, Non Immersive, Easy, and Annoying are all things I did feel in NWN1. The game just dragged on and on until it was painful. Looking forward to my second game of NWN2

That's nice for you. I hope to someday as well. As it stands now this game looks and feels "alpha" stage to me.

 

Then you probably feel as disappointed with NWN2 as I did with NWN1

[Weiser_Cain]

Both games are too linear for a RPG based off dnd

[Dark_Raven]

NWN2 is just awesome, awesome. Out of curiosity I started one of my NWN saved games. After seeing the horrid graphics of your surroundings and especially the character, I said hell no. I don't think I will start a NWN game again.

Edited November 25, 2006 by Dark_Raven

[Weiser_Cain]

nwn is pretty old. of course it looks like crap, that's not a fair comparison.

[Volourn]

Except it doesn't look like crap. NWN1 still looks good.

[Deraldin]

NWN2 is just awesome, awesome. Out of curiosity I started one of NWN saved games. After seeing the horrid graphics of your surroundings and especially the character, I said hell no. I don't think I will start a NWN game again.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Except it doesn't look like crap. NWN1 still looks good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hurray for stating opinions like fact!

[Diamond]

You know what's funny?

 

This thread.  This thread is very funny.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[steelfiredragon]

linear is not that good.

 

and i got 1 reason to why your 50 reasons dont matter to anyone other than yourself.

 

1: matter of oppinion

[Deraldin]

You know what's funny?

 

This thread.  This thread is very funny.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[steelfiredragon]

so is it 10 pages or 11 to lock it ?

[Riftworm]

You've yet to present 50 reasons why NWN2 is worse than NWN2. Does that make you a liar or just pathetic?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I see personal attacks aren't beneath you either. The problem is, since it's mostly all subjective there aren't any lies. Only points you disagree with. I never at one moment writing that thought to myself "hmm I should lie here". Rather it was a stream of consciousness in comparative connections with NWN1 and NWN2 thus far including my personal experience and those around me with the original over a five year span. In that regards I'm more qualified to speak in general terms for those I played with online, and you only for yourself since admittedly you don't play online.

 

 

That's great you disagree, but liar I am not. I genuinely feel all of these 50 points are what make NWN1 better than NWN2.

 

so is it 10 pages or 11 to lock it ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This isn't Bioware. Volourns Wowy journy is at page 36 now.

 

 

Edited November 25, 2006 by Riftworm

[Dark_Raven]

Except it doesn't look like crap. NWN1 still looks good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

R00fles! Your video card must really suck.

 

Double R00fles!

[17243_1556103691]

Except it doesn't look like crap. NWN1 still looks good.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Compared to NWN2, King's Quest 1 looks good.

[Llyranor]

You've yet to present 50 reasons why NWN2 is worse than NWN2. Does that make you a liar or just pathetic?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I see personal attacks aren't beneath you either. The problem is, since it's mostly all subjective there aren't any lies. Only points you disagree with. I never at one moment writing that thought to myself "hmm I should lie here". Rather it was a stream of consciousness in comparative connections with NWN1 and NWN2 thus far including my personal experience and those around me with the original over a five year span. In that regards I'm more qualified to speak in general terms for those I played with online, and you only for yourself since admittedly you don't play online.

 

 

That's great you disagree, but liar I am not. I genuinely feel all of these 50 points are what make NWN1 better than NWN2.

It's his personal opinion that you're a liar. You may disagree with his opinion, but he genuinely feels that you're a liar. Agree to disagree!

[Kelverin]

[quote name='

[Volourn]

Game over.

[Riftworm]

You've yet to present 50 reasons why NWN2 is worse than NWN2. Does that make you a liar or just pathetic?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I see personal attacks aren't beneath you either. The problem is, since it's mostly all subjective there aren't any lies. Only points you disagree with. I never at one moment writing that thought to myself "hmm I should lie here". Rather it was a stream of consciousness in comparative connections with NWN1 and NWN2 thus far including my personal experience and those around me with the original over a five year span. In that regards I'm more qualified to speak in general terms for those I played with online, and you only for yourself since admittedly you don't play online.

 

 

That's great you disagree, but liar I am not. I genuinely feel all of these 50 points are what make NWN1 better than NWN2.

It's his personal opinion that you're a liar. You may disagree with his opinion, but he genuinely feels that you're a liar. Agree to disagree!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I can't be is my point. 98% of my points are subjective (though inclusive of many of the complaints seen at bioware that I agree with) the other few points were things many see as bugs or faulty design that I also agree with.

 

So Gorth is either nuts, or tarded..or both, or just a slanderer. In any case it isn't possible that I could lie in a list of subjective opinion where there is no right or wrong, only opinions.

[Fionavar]

Derailment for the Win!