So how buggy is NWN2?

[Volourn]

"I hit that problem in my last game also. The problem there is that the big baddy in the fight accidentally killed someone that has dialogue during that conversation, but because the character is dead, he can't respond. The only way to fix it that I know of right now is to reload and go through the fight on normal instead of hardcore. Get's ride of the mage friendly fire which should allow you to finish the fight properly."

 

Yeah, I read about that on the BIO baords. I'll try that later on next time I play.

[Wistrik]

In Neverwinter, Ammon starts offing nobles while searching for a shard. The first noble he kills is mentioned by name ('Lord F....." I can't recall the name off the top of my head) by Cormick and later by Duncan. However the middle of the conversation with Sand, they start calling him 'Lord Gentry', and this glitch carries through to Captain Brelaina.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This I believe isn't a glitch, but a storytelling problem.

I believe 3 nobles eventually are killed, Gentry was the 2nd. They just talked about him like he was the only one who was killed, leaving you to believe that it was a glitch.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a glitch because the name switches to Lord Gentry before the second noble is killed, and right in mid-conversation no less. Read the conversaion carefully next time when you first visit Duncan and ask him about the murder while Sand is there. They'll start off talking about Lord so-and-so and a few sentences later change over to Lord Gentry. Perhaps Gentry is the second noble, but he's not dead yet at this point in the game.

Edited November 14, 2006 by metadigital

[Diamond]

Spoiler tags, people! Use it!

[Spider]

Certain combat animations aren't working. Great Cleave and Cleave, for example, often do not display; instead the monsters take damage while my character stands there. Sometimes the animations display, but usually they don't. Same goes for multiple hits per round on high level fighters. Something's fishy there.

 

From what I've read, these aren't supposed to be working. The reasoning being that they are free attacks that don't take up any of your character's time and animations take time. I've read it in regards to AoO, but I'm guessing it applies to Cleave as well. So it could be that this isn't actually a bug, but a feature.

 

Neeshka has no tail. I've yet to keep her in the party after reaching Neverwinter, but so far only Khelgar has mentioned a tail. Neeshka never did.

 

She kinda does mention it once. When Qara calls her tails-for-brains she says "My brain is not in my tail". So she should have one. Although it could just be tucked inside whatever clothes she's wearing I guess.

 

It is hard to click on a target NPC during combat because the hotspot is typically much smaller than the creature's outline, and isn't always located near the character's 'center'. Thus I have to pause the game to target reliably with the mouse, otherwise my character usually runs behind the creature I tried to target. (Do this sometime, pause and move your mouse over a creature and notice how small the hotspot is compared to the overall creature outline. Sometimes there is a huge difference. By 'hotspot' I'm referring to the location where the cursor changes to a sword or a dialog icon.

 

This actually gets fairly ridiculous with some of the really large monsters. You'd think it'd be easy to target a monster that occupies most of the screen, but oh no.

 

Joinable NPCs don't keep their skill assignments. I can assign skills all I want, but when they level up, the skill points I previously assigned have vanished into thin air. Thus I gave up and just click Recommend to get past the skill assignment screen. At least they keep the feats you assign to them.

 

Funny, they do for me. For example one NPC has points in cross-class skill heal and attempts to put more there if I click recommend. But I usually remove those and put them in Craft Armor instead and that has stuck. Been doing it for two playthroughs now and it's kept every time. And I've done similar things with other NPCs as well.

 

The influence system is nice, but characters are way too picky. I don't start hating someone just because they disagree with my point of view, and people who do display this behavior are often berated by their community. So why do our party members behave so childishly? Save the influence adjustments for major events and stop applying penalties to silly disagreements. If they don't like how I do things, they shouldn't have forced their way into my party!

 

The NPCs don't start hating you if they disagree with you once. Getting a -1 influence with someone every now and then isn't the end of the world, they'll still like you. Getting a -1 in every conversation you enter on the other hand... Which is very realistic. If you never agree with someone, you probably won't like that person much.

 

The influence system is supposed to show how you gain people's trust over time, so I think it makes sense to have small shifts available everywhere rather than big shifts when it's important. For example, if I have a friend who for no good reason just walks up and kicks a dog for no good reason that'll certainly make me feel less warm towards that person (unless it's a poodle).

 

I can agree that having NPCs forcing themselves into the party is a bit contrived though. but I can see why most people don't leave even if they disagree with you. The KoS must be stopped and for better or for worse you are the best chance of doing that. So it's either help someone they despise or see the world go to hell. But from a design perspective I certainly wouldn't have done it that way.

 

Also, you forgot one glaringly obvious bug, although given how you feel against Bishop it's not all that surprising.

 

He is obviously a bow ranger and he has feats like WF: Longbow and so on. But still, he has the dual wield ranger path instead of archery. Although the devs know about this, he is supposed to get archery, he is tagged to have archery, but the game still gives him DW. Personally I just used the console to give him the feats he should have.

[Volourn]

I feel influence doesn't really add anything. They could accomplish the same exact things that influence does just by doing what other RPGs do. Other RPGs have been allowing the player to influence or be influenced by npcs for years. The system doesn't add anything new to that regard; not to mention in many (if not all) cases; the PC is being influenced by the NPC not the other way around like Obsidian had first described it as.

[alanschu]

The influence system is nice, but characters are way too picky. I don't start hating someone just because they disagree with my point of view, and people who do display this behavior are often berated by their community. So why do our party members behave so childishly? Save the influence adjustments for major events and stop applying penalties to silly disagreements. If they don't like how I do things, they shouldn't have forced their way into my party!

 

A simple -1 doesn't mean that they hate you. If you have 100 influence with someone, and then disagree with you, they'll still idol-worship you.

 

not to mention in many (if not all) cases; the PC is being influenced by the NPC not the other way around like Obsidian had first described it as.

 

Not true, you influence their opinion of you. It's only them influencing you if you decided to no longer roleplay, but to actively pick options simply because you want person X to like you more.

 

As you accumulate influence, you can use this influence to get them to talk to you about things they might not otherwise have spoken to you about.

[Enoch]

Is there a way to display the influence you have with your NPCs in-game? Or do you have to use the debug console?

[alanschu]

I don't think it exists in game.

 

Though it really shouldn't be that big of a mystery if someone likes you or not.

[Pidesco]

Regarding buggy games, I'd like to point out that Fallout 1 and 2 were a lot more buggier than NWN2 and that didn't stop people from considering them two of the best CRPGs ever made. And Planescape Torment wasn't exactly a bug free game either.

[alanschu]

Hehe, I remember Fallout 2 being particularly buggy.

[@\NightandtheShape/@]

NWN1 was buggy on release it had a horrible courrpt save game bug...

[roshan]

The influence system is idiotic.

Zhjaeve wont tell me the history of the conflict between the githzerai and the githyanki

because I dont have enough influence. And influence is required for Elanee to tell you about her druidic circle.

 

Why the hell would we need influence for such little things? its absolutely ridiculous!

 

I also dont like the influence system because in the end it just dictates the players actions in the game rather than actually being a measure of the influence over the characters. So instead of you influencing NPCs, they influence your actions in the game. In order to make the system actually work, influence over the NPCs should be based not on the PCs actions but rather on their results.

 

Just a random example, not the best one:

 

Current system: Player talks about disciplining kids. Neeshka doesnt like it, - 1 influence.

Better system: Player talks about disciplining kids, Neeshka doesnt like it, - 1 influence. Player enters crypt, kid is in trouble, saves kid. Neeshka realizes maybe the player was right about discipline, + 2 influence. With enough influence there might be some sort of change in Neeshkas character.

 

Also, multiple counters should be implemented for each character. For example, there could be a counter for morale and another one for trust. And a seperate counter for each direction that you can influence an NPC towards.

 

The current system is too simple to the point that it simply doesnt work. I would rather have no influence system than the current one.

Edited November 14, 2006 by metadigital

[Pidesco]

Hehe, I remember Fallout 2 being particularly buggy.

 

Even after the patch it was still a buggy mess. Losing the car trunk really sucked.

[alanschu]

I also dont like the influence system because in the end it just dictates the players actions in the game rather than actually being a measure of the influence over the characters. So instead of you influencing NPCs, they influence your actions in the game. In order to make the system actually work, influence over the NPCs should be based not on the PCs actions but rather on their results.

 

It only dictates the players actions if you decide to no longer roleplay the game, and decide instead to pick all the options so that they will talk to you.

 

But it's still you influencing their opinions of you. Your actions and words, influence how they see you, and you can use that influence to get them to talk about things they might not otherwise have spoken about.

 

I do agree that it'd be nice if you could actually make wholesale changes to their character, but as of now your influence is restricted to the NPC's opinion of you.

[Lare Kikkeli]

to answer the OP question, after patch 2, very. can't get it to run, and there's a 7 page long topic on the bioware forums about it.

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...17309&forum=116

 

 

thanks, obsidian. guess i wont be playing nwn2 online.

 

 

ps. [i'd like to make a trolling comment about KOTOR2, but I won't.]

Edited November 14, 2006 by metadigital

[Enoch]

I don't think it exists in game.

 

Though it really shouldn't be that big of a mystery if someone likes you or not.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I thought. I just got the impression from some of the earlier posts on this topic that others knew exactly when and how much influence they were accruing/losing with their NPCs.

[Spider]

to answer the OP question, after patch 2, very. can't get it to run, and there's a 7 page long topic on the bioware forums about it.

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...17309&forum=116

 

 

thanks, obsidian. guess i wont be playing nwn2 online. 

 

 

ps. [i'd like to make a trolling comment about KOTOR2, but I won't.]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just checking, you have the 809 version of the 1.02 patch rather than the 808 that was the original release? I thought they were supposed to have fixed that error with the re-issue of that patch.

[Lare Kikkeli]

to answer the OP question, after patch 2, very. can't get it to run, and there's a 7 page long topic on the bioware forums about it.

 

http://nwn2forums.bioware.com/forums/viewt...17309&forum=116

 

 

thanks, obsidian. guess i wont be playing nwn2 online. 

 

 

ps. [i'd like to make a trolling comment about KOTOR2, but I won't.]

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Just checking, you have the 809 version of the 1.02 patch rather than the 808 that was the original release? I thought they were supposed to have fixed that error with the re-issue of that patch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

yeah, re-installed tonight and got the latest version from the autopatcher.

[Wistrik]

A simple -1 doesn't mean that they hate you.  If you have 100 influence with someone, and then disagree with you, they'll still idol-worship you.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wasn't speaking in absolutes, but I forget that such is common in the English language today. In other languages, saying you love person#1 less than person#2 is the same as saying you hate person#1 more than person#2. You may care for them both, but you think more of one and less of the other. There are degrees of love/hate.

 

My point isn't the quantity or degree, it's when this is applied.

 

For example,

Khelgor loves to fight, despite his LG alignment. (I think CG is more his style.) Problem is he's totally unreasonable about it and expects everyone around him to feel the same way. This is a childish attitude. Thus whenever I counter his desire to start a fight, I score a -1 with him. Even Elanee disagrees, saying after Khelgor starts an unnecessary fight with some sailors in Highcliff, "If we are through making new enemies, we should move on." Later it makes more sense; you only score -1 if you make a negative comment about his dwarven heritage. Sure, his change of attitude is part of his quest, but I don't want to be penalized for merely disagreeing with his point of view. He freely disagrees with mine, initially.

 

Edited November 14, 2006 by metadigital

[Nartwak]

Khelgar is Neutral Good.

[Wistrik]

I'll have to recheck I guess. Last night he was LG and Elanee was NG.

[Tigranes]

Problem is he's totally unreasonable about it and expects everyone around him to feel the same way. This is a childish attitude. Thus whenever I counter his desire to start a fight, I score a -1 with him.

 

If you disagree iwth him and believe his attitude is childish, then of course you are going to have disagreements. I know that this doesnt totally reflect reality because in reality you are going to respect some people with different opinions, but this is reflected in the way you are able to persuade them to follow your course of action even if they disagree, and sometimes even gain influence.

 

I think the best way to play the influence system is to play naturally; play as if the influence system is not there *at all*. That's why I think NWN2 shouldnt show those -1 +1 messages. Success/Failure messages are inevitable since otherwise you'll never know which dialogues to try agian, but I think if you get hung up too much on +1 -1 then you get dissatisfied because its harder to roleplay your character and be rewarded for it.

 

On the other hand, if you like to manipulate your characters and pretend you agree with them, the fact that in nwn2 other characters are present to object makes it harder to 'abuse' the system like that. I think its a good system and I think it was improved in NWN2 if only marginally; and I think you get rewarded by it if you just roleplay naturally. If you miss out on some dialogues or options, so what? That is a consequence of roleplaying and You can always try a different tack next time. Remember that even if you might like a particular character and want to get influence with him, getting someone to like you isnt so straightforward anyway. After all, didnt we 'hardcore' players want real failures and consequences?

[Enoch]

I'll have to recheck I guess. Last night he was LG and Elanee was NG.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know that he starts as NG. I assume that if you get him converted to a Monk, his alignment shifts to LG, since Monks must be Lawful.

[metadigital]

In Neverwinter, Ammon starts offing nobles while searching for a shard. The first noble he kills is mentioned by name ('Lord F....." I can't recall the name off the top of my head) by Cormick and later by Duncan. However the middle of the conversation with Sand, they start calling him 'Lord Gentry', and this glitch carries through to Captain Brelaina.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

This I believe isn't a glitch, but a storytelling problem.

I believe 3 nobles eventually are killed, Gentry was the 2nd. They just talked about him like he was the only one who was killed, leaving you to believe that it was a glitch.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It's a glitch because the name switches to Lord Gentry before the second noble is killed, and right in mid-conversation no less. Read the conversaion carefully next time when you first visit Duncan and ask him about the murder while Sand is there. They'll start off talking about Lord so-and-so and a few sentences later change over to Lord Gentry. Perhaps Gentry is the second noble, but he's not dead yet at this point in the game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I think you are looking too hard.

[Wistrik]

Read too hard? I get paid to do that.

 

The Baldur's Gate series has thousands of errors in the game text; so far NWN2 has considerably fewer, but they're there.