Do atrocities come with an expiry date?

[Judge Hades]

Bogitry is still very prevalent in the highest offices of our government. I mean it is uite obvious that George W. Bush is a bigot against homosexuals to the point he will not allow them the same civil rights as everyone else purely based on his religious beliefs. Everyone needs someone to hate so they can feel justified and superior to those they hate.

[Dark Moth]

The past is the past and we should never forget the past, but we should not let it justify the evils going on today nor the future.  We need to learn from the past and make sure such things never happen again, but we won't unless it serves our personal interests and/or agenda.

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Hey, I kinda agree with what you said for once!

[Archmonarch]

I mean it is uite obvious that George W. Bush is a bigot against homosexuals to the point he will not allow them the same civil rights as everyone else purely based on his religious beliefs. 

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You've got to look a little deeper. While I admit its certainly possible Bushie has a thing against gays, Id say a political motivation is far more likely.

Edited August 7, 2006 by Archmonarch

[Hurlshort]

Actually, Bush's agenda against gay marriage is very political. There have been a few interviews about his personal feelings and if you read between the lines, he's a fairly open minded individual. Look, **** Cheney has an openly gay daughter who worked with him on his campaigns. He clearly accepts her, but his party line does not. Bush and company do what they need to do to get elected, personal beliefs are secondary.

[alanschu]

No no no. That will take away from the fun of the Bush bashers!

[Volourn]

"I also gotta add, racism is extremely prevalent is the US."

 

I agree. It's obvious that many blacks hate white people, and blame them for everything!

 

P.S. More seriously, sure racism still exists on both sides; but it's nowhere enar as bad as it used to be. It's also very frowned on by the majority of people. There's a reason why slavery has been outlawed, and people can get into a lot of legal trouble if they go too far with thier hatred. It's because society is bigoted against racism.

[Judge Hades]

I don't give a crap about it being is personal views or political motivations. Only his actions matter and he has acted in a manner that is very prejudicial against those who are homosexual.

[Hurlshort]

I don't give a crap about it being is personal views or political motivations.  Only his actions matter and he has acted in a manner that is very prejudicial against those who are homosexual.

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Well, yeah, I agree with you there. Unfortunately 51% of the voters think that's groovy.

[astr0creep]

I don't give a crap about it being is personal views or political motivations.  Only his actions matter and he has acted in a manner that is very prejudicial against those who are homosexual.

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Well, yeah, I agree with you there. Unfortunately 51% of the voters think that's groovy.

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But, but, but... votes can be bought!

[Arkan]

Actually, Bush's agenda against gay marriage is very political.  There have been a few interviews about his personal feelings and if you read between the lines, he's a fairly open minded individual.  Look, **** Cheney has an openly gay daughter who worked with him on his campaigns.  He clearly accepts her, but his party line does not.  Bush and company do what they need to do to get elected, personal beliefs are secondary.

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That doesn't make it any less vile.

[Pidesco]

There's a reason why slavery has been outlawed, and people can get into a lot of legal trouble if they go too far with thier hatred. It's because society is bigoted against racism.

 

Racism wasn't outlawed because people suddenly started to hate it. It was outlawed because industrialization made it obsolete.

[Volourn]

"Racism wasn't outlawed because people suddenly started to hate it. It was outlawed because industrialization made it obsolete."

 

Irrellevant. Anyone who tries to claim that racism (white against black or vice versa) is as bad now as it was 'way back when' is blind to the current truth.

 

Again, this doesn't mean racism doesn't exist today; but its nowhere near as prevelant as it used to be.

 

The reasons why slavery was outlawed is irrelvant.

 

*You also seem to be mistaking slavery itself with racism. While they are often interconnected; they are not the same thing.* (IGNORE THIS LINE)

Edited August 7, 2006 by Volourn

[Pidesco]

I wrote racism but was thinking slavery. Sorry. :">

[Volourn]

Heh. No problem. That can happen.

[Hurlshort]

So you think that Industrialization has taken away the need for slavery? I'm sorry, but slavery very much exists today, it's just not out in the open. Sweatshops are the modern equivalent of slavery. People are sold in 3rd world countries everyday. But the difference is that most countries actively try to root out such practices.

 

I do agree with you that, historically, industrialization made it easier for nations to end slavery, but I also think human morality plays a huge role. As the world becomes more educated, there is a steady progress of individual rights and worth. It may seem slow, or even going backwards on occassion, but overall the world is becoming a better place.

[Pidesco]

So you think that Industrialization has taken away the need for slavery?  I'm sorry, but slavery very much exists today, it's just not out in the open.  Sweatshops are the modern equivalent of slavery.  People are sold in 3rd world countries everyday.  But the difference is that most countries actively try to root out such practices.

 

I do agree with you that, historically, industrialization made it easier for nations to end slavery, but I also think human morality plays a huge role.  As the world becomes more educated, there is a steady progress of individual rights and worth.  It may seem slow, or even going backwards on occassion, but overall the world is becoming a better place.

 

While I agree more or less wholeheartedly with the first part of your post, I have to say that, from my point of view, the role of human morality in practical affairs is mostly bugger all. In my opinion, it's all about shifts in power. In the case of slavery in the US, for example, the increasing industrialization in the north shifted power and influence towards those states at the expense of the southern states. This change, associated with a traditional rivalry between the north and south, urged people in power to support the abolition of slavery.

 

Another example of such change would be the fight for women's rights all over the world. The suffragists and the feminists would never have gotten anywhere if it wasn't for the two World Wars.

 

In fact I'd say amorality has been the biggest driving force of human prosperity, at least since the reformation, and probably even before it. What seems to me interesting about this is that industrial and economic progress seems to invariably lead to moral progress, as well. So, in my view, morality isn't necessary to progress, but the inverse is true.

 

 

P.S.: 3rd world countries are mostly not industrialized. And working in sweatshops isn't slavery. It's pretty close to it, but not quite.

[Walsingham]

May I remind the forum that the British Empire was one of the first, if not the first European powers to not only outlaw slavery, but to direct HM Navy to seize and return slaves to Africa.

 

But to give due credit to Pidesco, we did that in part because our economy had moved on from slavery while our competitors - France and the US - were still dependent on it. However I think it's wrong to suggest that it was purely venal, even if that was a strong part of the case. Just as I doubt the US Cibvil war was purely venal.

 

As for slavery being ongoing, the fact is that it still does occur in many societies, particularly in Africa (that I know of). Where children are used. There is also sex slavery worldwide and even in 'civilised' countries.

 

However, sweatshops are not slavery. One does not buy a slave and then mistreat them to the extent that they cannot work. A slave is an investment. It has to be maintained. While a non-unionised worker is a throw-away item to be used up and dispatched.

[Hurlshort]

Man, I had to look up venal. Interesting choice. Much different than venereal.

[Walsingham]

Man, I had to look up venal.  Interesting choice.  Much different than venereal.

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Venereal has its part to play in state decision making. Just look at Bob 'shaking hands' Mugabe.

[Craigboy2]

Every thing comes with an expiration date, even corn.

[Gfted1]

Every thing comes with an expiration date, even corn.

 

 

Honey doesnt.

[Walsingham]

Every thing comes with an expiration date, even corn.

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What about twinkies?

[Krookie]

I don't think soda goes bad either.

[astr0creep]

Neither does Cheez Wiz.

 

 

Mmmmmm Cheez Wiz...

[Musopticon?]

I don't think brain matter expires either.

 

 

 

 

Not in ze nourishment pod at leezt! Mawhahhaaa!