Oblivion First Impressions

[Tigranes]

Only place in Kvatch plaza (the parts after and before that were alright) where you can avoid 5 clannfear chewing your ass off is a spot in a corner where if you do jump in, you're stuck and can't get out (saw Salvius do that). Everywhere else you are slightly less vulnerable, but at the same time your mobility is restricted, making things possibly worse.

[10k fists]

I dont recall getting anything better than steel plate (store bought) till around 15. Weapons here and there, but no armour. Weapons pop up a couple of levels before armour by the looks of it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

That's because merchants don't carry all the equipment for your level. It's obvious you refuse to read/comprehend what I've been trying to say, but I'll say it one last time for everyone else (and even go a little further):

 

Equipment is on a 5 level scale.

 

Level 1-4: fur/leather/iron - minor leather drops early (lvls 1-2)

Level 5-9: leather/chain/steel - minor chain/steel early (lvls 5-7)

Level 10-14: dwarven/mithril

Level 15-19: elven/ebony

Level 20+: glass/daedric

 

Magical weapons +2 levels (ie, magical glass won't have a chance of dropping till you are level 22).

 

Weapons associated with the equipment, ie: "ebony longsword" drop the instant you hit level 15, just like the armor. These drops are from bandits both outside and inside dungeons/ruins/etc., as well as a random drop in treasure chests.

 

Hassat Hunter: You said level 12 and only finding fur? Sorry, but it can't happen within the system. Bandits (different from the "highwayman" bandit) automatically scale upwards, and their equipment levels your level, so you start recieving equipment drops from them the instant you get to the level (unless they were already loaded in the cell when you leveled).

Edited April 2, 2006 by 10k fists

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Ok...  bandits are those guys that are all over the map when not in town...   

You don't really "go looking" for them, they sorta just run at you and either attack outright, or demand gold.

 

It's not really something that you can "define", other than it appears to me as though you ran around, willy nilly, attacking stuff, and then decided to go to Kvatch.  You had 11 levels to get used to the level scaling, and the fact that you claim level 20 was a "cake walk" simply shows that you really didn't know what you were doing at level 12.  Whether that was being ignorant to equipment and how to obtain it, or fighting enemies during the "low middle level" period.

 

I didn't build a "slow level" character, nor did I ever maximize by attribute distribution to +5 only.  Yet, I never found my character to be "almost useless".

 

There's an abundance of cover/tactics to use in Kvatch to give you the time you need to heal or do what you need to do.  You don't need the guards, and the fact they don't level scale to your exact same level is moot.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You mean those single characters dressed in mostly fur ?

 

I explored, just like it said I could on leaving the prison. Now if exploring is going to have such a detremental effect perhaps it shouldnt have been a suggestion.

 

Nothing in those 11 levels prepared you for Kvatch. Even in the tower , the encounters are mostly singles.

 

Already told you , the stuff I had at 20 wasnt available at eariler levels.

 

Steel plate seems like pretty good equipment at level 12. Certainly did the job till I got around to the plot.

 

Leaping about might work for a mage. It's not much help to a fighter. Niether is a healing spell which either drains you mana pool over half to heal 25 hp's. Or the starter heal spell.

 

Scaling is fine and dandy. But to say the difficulty of Kvatch at 12 is the same as the difficulty at 3 is quite laughable.

[Tigranes]

Sorry, but it can't happen within the system.

 

Then what's wrong with him? it's kind of hard to NOT get what he is supposed to get on drops.

 

I wonder if the game controls, within its scaled boundary, the enemies' levels. E.g. If you are level 10, you will usually encounter 8-10s in one palce but 10-12s on another? I've seen no evidence of such yet, though.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

That's because merchants don't carry all the equipment for your level.  It's obvious you refuse to read/comprehend what I've been trying to say, but I'll say it one last time for everyone else (and even go a little further):

 

Equipment is on a 5 level scale.

 

Level 1-4:  fur/leather/iron - minor leather drops early (lvls 1-2)

Level 5-9:  leather/chain/steel - minor chain/steel early (lvls 5-7)

Level 10-14:  dwarven/mithril

Level 15-19:  elven/ebony

Level 20+:  glass/daedric

 

Magical weapons +2 levels (ie, magical glass won't have a chance of dropping till you are level 22).

 

Weapons associated with the equipment, ie: "ebony longsword" drop the instant you hit level 15, just like the armor.  These drops are from bandits both outside and inside dungeons/ruins/etc., as well as a random drop in treasure chests.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Oh well excuse me for not reading the strategy guides or message boards before playing the game There was me thinking it was a roleplaying game.

[Judge Hades]

I was level 1 in the arena and was getting opponents with silver swords, mithril shields, and magic weapons. Also three argonians is a bit much for a 1st level character.

Edited April 2, 2006 by Judge Hades

[Tigranes]

Silly Hades.

[Judge Hades]

I got the rank of Gladiator for my first level character.

 

Oh, I am using a mod that levels the character 4 times slower.

[Hassat Hunter]

10K Fists, please explain then how I get from a iron longsword to a elven one when being lvl 12?

 

First off all; iron was WAY too low-leveled for me to be still having, and Elven is WAY too high-leveled for me to already getting...

 

But anyways; Now I replaced Attack 7 with Attack 10 it become alot sweeter traveling in Cyrodiil... I might not stop playing after all...

Edited April 2, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

They aren't sidequests if you have to do them to advance the story.  They are part of the game's overall, linear plot.

 

Linear plots have already been done quite well in films and literature.  Video games, unlike those mediums, have the luxury and capability of allowing  the player to create their own story within the context of the gameworld.  I'd like to see games, or RPGs at least, advance more in that direction and get way from static stories all together.

 

Of course there are story-obsessed people who just want to play out key moments in a pre-determined epic tale, so it may always be necessary for games to try do both I guess.  Oblivion tried, but failed to balance both appropriately with each other IMO.  The fact they tried to include both is still a step in the right direction and adds to the games overall quality as far as I'm concerned though.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Those were not the ones I was thinking of.

 

Well looks at Oblivion. It's plot only has a single outcome regardless of what you do. So while you can wander around there isnt really any purpose served by it. Even less when you take the scaling into account as well. Does that make it less linear than SMT (JRPG) which has six endings which vary accoriding to what you do during the game ?

 

There are games without static stories. They are called MMPORGs.

[10k fists]

You mean those single characters dressed in mostly fur ?

 

I explored, just like it said I could on leaving the prison. Now if exploring is going to have such a detremental effect perhaps it shouldnt have been a suggestion.

 

Nothing in those 11 levels prepared you for Kvatch. Even in the tower , the encounters are mostly singles.

 

Already told you , the stuff I had at 20 wasnt available at eariler levels.

 

Steel plate seems like pretty good equipment at level 12. Certainly did the job till I got around to the plot.

 

Leaping about might work for a mage. It's not much help to a fighter. Niether is a healing spell which either drains you mana pool over half to heal 25 hp's. Or the starter heal spell.

 

Scaling is fine and dandy. But to say the difficulty of Kvatch at 12 is the same as the difficulty at 3 is quite laughable.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yes, the guys dressed in fur until you hit level 5 and up. There are tons of situations to prepare you for Kvatch. Many goblin caves put you in situations where you're surrounded, there are also random quests that you may or may not have found that put you in an outnumbered situation. Regardless, if you explore you'll come across packs of enemies, and if you explore, you'll find bandit camps and ruins with bandits inside them all wearing equipment scaled to your level, (not complete sets, but that's why you are put against more than one - to get the complete set).

 

I never said the stuff you had at level 20 was stuff you should have had earlier, because at level 20, you start getting glass/daedric equipment.... duh

 

Steel plate is decent at level 12, but you've had two levels to start getting dwarven/mithril, which is simply ... better.

 

I never said leaping about was the proper strat for a melee fighter. But, a fighter has a higher block, and power attacks. You also don't need to cast minor healing over and over, as potions do the job, and are quicker/more efficient during combat. That's why a lot of enemies use them.

 

I don't think it's laughable to state that Kvatch is that much more difficult at level 12 than at level 3. There's a great deal of people not having a problem with the level scaling of the game, because they explore, find good equipment, and know what to do in tight situations with their character. Whether it's use a potion that boosts stats for a melee character, get to higher ground for an archer/mage, or conjure weapons/armor/minions.

 

You complain a lot...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

I got the rank of Gladiator for my first level character. 

 

Oh, I am using a mod that levels the character 4 times slower.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How does that work ? You just raise skills four times slower ?Or you need 4 times as many increases to level ?

[10k fists]

10K Fists, please explain then how I get from a iron longsword to a elven one when being lvl 12?

 

First off all; iron was WAY too low-leveled for me to be still having, and Elven is WAY too high-leveled for me to already getting...

 

But anyways; Now I replaced Attack 7 with Attack 10 it become alot sweeter traveling in Cyrodiil... I might not stop playing after all...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Elven is available at level 15, I've said this multiple times. At level 12, you can just go buy a better longsword than iron, say, steel, or even silver. Or you can go find one of those plus a dwarven one (dwarven starts dropping at lvl 10).

[Hassat Hunter]

Elven is available at level 15, I've said this multiple times.  At level 12, you can just go buy a better longsword than iron, say, steel, or even silver.  Or you can go find one of those plus a dwarven one (dwarven starts dropping at lvl 10).

 

Yup. And I found one at lvl 11 just before hitting lvl 12... explain that...

 

And it is kind of hard "buying" when you are in the wilderness...; and none of the "Dwarven" weaponry dropped was any better than my current stuff. Prob. didn't help all the enemies walk around with rods (blunt weapon)...

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Yes, the guys dressed in fur until you hit level 5 and up.  There are tons of situations to prepare you for Kvatch.  Many goblin caves put you in situations where you're surrounded, there are also random quests that you may or may not have found that put you in an outnumbered situation.  Regardless, if you explore you'll come across packs of enemies, and if you explore, you'll find bandit camps and ruins with bandits inside them all wearing equipment scaled to your level, (not complete sets, but that's why you are put against more than one - to get the complete set).

 

I never said the stuff you had at level 20 was stuff you should have had earlier, because at level 20, you start getting glass/daedric equipment.... duh

 

Steel plate is decent at level 12, but you've had two levels to start getting dwarven/mithril, which is simply ... better.

 

I never said leaping about was the proper strat for a melee fighter.  But, a fighter has a higher block, and power attacks.  You also don't need to cast minor healing over and over, as potions do the job, and are quicker/more efficient during combat.  That's why a lot of enemies use them. 

 

I don't think it's laughable to state that Kvatch is that much more difficult at level 12 than at level 3.  There's a great deal of people not having a problem with the level scaling of the game, because they explore, find good equipment, and know what to do in tight situations with their character.  Whether it's use a potion that boosts stats for a melee character, get to higher ground for an archer/mage, or conjure weapons/armor/minions.

 

You complain a lot... 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The stuff I had at 20 was unique. It wasnt random.

 

What your not grasping here is that if I had gone on an armour hunt I would have leveled even more.And the creatures would have leveled up even more.I'm glad I only got two and not 4 like Tigranes did.

Yes I'm perfectly aware how not to do it. But in an RPG I should be allowed to roleplay my character. Had the guards been as effective as they were at level 3 it would have been no problem. And thats squarely down to how the game scales.

 

I used up my potions. And have you ever tried to block multiple clanfear ? Can you say stagger. Plus of course every time you hit them you take damage.

 

A lot of people had problems with that particular bit of level scaling.

[10k fists]

Yup. And I found one at lvl 11 just before hitting lvl 12... explain that...

 

And it is kind of hard "buying" when you are in the wilderness...; and none of the "Dwarven" weaponry dropped was any better than my current stuff. Prob. didn't help all the enemies walk around with rods (blunt weapon)...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

There are various people that have set items.

 

If you spend 11 levels in the wilderness without visiting town, then you've fought enough enemies to get drops for steel/silver - and not a simple "iron longsword".

 

I think I'm going to call it a night. It's obvious there's a lot of cynical people in this thread, making stuff to help further their point.

 

I've explained how the level system works, and the code doesn't change from game to game.

[Llyranor]

I agree with this to a point.  I do not think the main storyline felt inappropriate, a bit out of place, but not inappropriate.  Other than that you are correct, the game could have used a more focused approach.  However, that is not what the Elder Scrolls is about.  The entire series has been like this, so I'm not sure why you would have expected otherwise.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're right, 'out of place' is probably the more accurate term.

 

In any case, I'm not arguing exclusively for tighter focus of the game/story (well, I am, but that doesn't apply to TES particularly), since that would entail a significant divergence of the series. In *this* context, though, there is plenty of room to adapt better integration of the storyline into the TES design philosophy, without compromising exploration and so on. If anything, I would hope that Beth learns from Oblivion for its next title, and strives to improve its storytelling/presentation (again, *within* the context of the series), instead of trying to cater to two seemingly opposing priorities and forcing an all-too-obvious dichotomy.

[Hassat Hunter]

There are various people that have set items.

 

Yeah, but all the stuff you use you find in boxes or in the shops...

 

If you spend 11 levels in the wilderness without visiting town, then you've fought enough enemies to get drops for steel/silver - and not a simple "iron longsword".

 

Apparently not... (did visit town though)

 

I've explained how the level system works, and the code doesn't change from game to game

 

Yup. You explained stuff like "Elven stuff drops from lvl 15 and not before" and were incorrect. Please try again!

Oh, and you can "explain" the sytem, but if the system does not listen; or is strangely mutated... that doesn't really help. How many times you repeat "enemies should drop Dwarven stuff" I don't get Dwarvenstuff from that in my game of Oblivion...

 

PS. Just looked at some old screens I made when playing Oblivion and it seems I had those Dwarven boots already at lvl 6/7... (only piece of Dwemer I found though... even when meeting 2 bandit-riddled ruins after the town, where I had 2 or 3 levelups already...)

Edited April 3, 2006 by Hassat Hunter

[Tigranes]

If you spend 11 levels in the wilderness without visiting town

 

Hello? Why the crap would you want to, or have to, do THAT?

[Kaftan Barlast]

Speaking of items, am I the only one who is suffering from a major cash shortage? Im on lvl10 and I have only scraped together about 3000 gold through various random questing. The magic weapons and armour being offered to me in stores is ranged 5-15000gold, by the time I have that kind of money those weapons will be too weak to use anyway. And buying a horse?! Or a house??!! Then its just crazy sums of gold. Where am I supposed to get enough money to buy wickid weapons and still have enough to buy a 5000g horse and a 25000g house?

 

 

Not to mention the scale of things is a bit odd, a crappy shack in the slum costs more than any of the denizens would be able to pay if they so saved for a hundred years.

 

Its a little like the pricing in Warhammer Fantasy RPG where a farmer who breeds horses would have to save all he makes for 20years to be able to afford one of his own horses

[Judge Hades]

I got the rank of Gladiator for my first level character. 

 

Oh, I am using a mod that levels the character 4 times slower.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How does that work ? You just raise skills four times slower ?Or you need 4 times as many increases to level ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It lowers the experience point gain by that amount. With that mod I am getting .25 the normal experience.

[Arkan]

I got the rank of Gladiator for my first level character. 

 

Oh, I am using a mod that levels the character 4 times slower.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

How does that work ? You just raise skills four times slower ?Or you need 4 times as many increases to level ?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It lowers the experience point gain by that amount. With that mod I am getting .25 the normal experience.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Does this seem to make the game more 'balanced?'

[StillLife]

Those were not the ones I was thinking of.

 

Well looks at Oblivion. It's plot only has a single outcome regardless of what you do. So while you can wander around there isnt really any purpose served by it. Even less when you take the scaling into account as well. Does that make it less linear than SMT (JRPG) which has six endings which vary accoriding to what you do during the game ?

 

There are games without static stories. They are called MMPORGs.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not talking about the outcome of the plot or how many different endings there are to it, though multiple endings usually are a nice feature in comparison to one set ending. My point was that games shouldn't necessarily have a story/plot as their main focus, aside from the one you make with your character.

 

Does playing a game only have a purpose if there's a beginning and an end? No. Those rules do apply to things like movies and books, but not video games. How is it pointless if you're wandering around doing stuff? That's supposed to be where the entertainment part comes in. Do you play games for entertainment, or soley because you want to witness a half-baked story unfold?

 

You're wrong with your last statement as well: MMORPGs due to their nature have a plethora of negatives holding them down. MMORPG developers almost always seem to focus on how to keep the player paying, rather than just providing a fun experience in which they can play out the role of a character utilizing the mechanics of the game. It would be great if someone would break that trend, but it may never happen as long as subscription fees are involved.

Edited April 3, 2006 by StillLife

[Judge Hades]

Does this seem to make the game more 'balanced?'

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Haven't gotten that far into it with the mod yet. So far I have only hit the Arena with it.

[LoneWolf16]

There are various people that have set items.

 

Yeah, but all the stuff you use you find in boxes or in the shops...

 

If you spend 11 levels in the wilderness without visiting town, then you've fought enough enemies to get drops for steel/silver - and not a simple "iron longsword".

 

Apparently not... (did visit town though)

 

I've explained how the level system works, and the code doesn't change from game to game

 

Yup. You explained stuff like "Elven stuff drops from lvl 15 and not before" and were incorrect. Please try again!

Oh, and you can "explain" the sytem, but if the system does not listen; or is strangely mutated... that doesn't really help. How many times you repeat "enemies should drop Dwarven stuff" I don't get Dwarvenstuff from that in my game of Oblivion...

 

PS. Just looked at some old screens I made when playing Oblivion and it seems I had those Dwarven boots already at lvl 6/7... (only piece of Dwemer I found though... even when meeting 2 bandit-riddled ruins after the town, where I had 2 or 3 levelups already...)

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Some items are set. Some NPCs have a certain type of armor, regardless of your level (

Evil mage guy in Fighters Guild quests has full suit of Elven armor and the hunters in "Caught in the Hunt" or whatever that you get in Bravil have all chain and Dwemer, without the helmet in the case of both Elven and Dwemer guys.

) and others, like bandits and lesser side quest related NPCs, do change their equipment once you hit 10. Admittedly, it's not really really common. I still run into fur wearing bandits from time to time out on the roads, but for the most part, they're in Mithril or a combination of Mithril, Chain, Leather, and Fur. (I'm level 12)

 

I haven't had a problem, with three different characters, locating both Mithril and Dwemer items after passing 10 and even a bit before that. Hell, just doing quests gives you better items, if only because the bad guys you're killing are wearing it.

 

And I think I'm about to die...tornado watch and all...and the squall line...and...and...mommy. :'(