"Are games art?"

It depends on the audience. To humans, yes. To elves, no.

It depends on the audience. To humans, yes. To elves, no.

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Yo tizzle them bitches, Julian my homie!

Rap is the greatest music there is

And here I thought this was going to be a thread about the ethical implications of "sampling" and how rap musicians are nothing but musical vultures, scavenging any decent riff they can find and financing their Lexuses (Lexii?) with the hard work of "real" musicians.

 

I *am* being sarcastic, but only about 85 percent.

 

Jay-Z and Danger Mouse create The Gray Album = good.

Jimmy Page sells his soul and plays Kashmir for Diddy's mediocre rhymes = bad

 

I'm all for creativity, and some rappers have that. Others... not so much.

Rap is the greatest music there is

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Bloody peasant...

I agree that there is some truly atrocious "sampling" going on, but that has been happening for decades. Many of Led Zep's hit songs are taken from classic blues songs.

Is graffiti art? It is the same question i believe.

 

Not to give graffiti a bad name....

Is graffiti art? It is the same question i believe.

 

Not to give graffiti a bad name....

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Yes. Have you seen the stuff those guys can do with those spray cans? There's some beautiful stuff out there...and to reiterate a not so sharp point...Graffiti is much more of an art than a lot of what's been called art in the past ever was.

Edited February 8, 200619 yr by LoneWolf16

Is graffiti art? It is the same question i believe.

 

Not to give graffiti a bad name....

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Yes. Have you seen the stuff those guys can do with those spray cans? There's some beautiful stuff out there...and to reiterate a not so sharp point...Graffiti is much more of an art than a lot of what's been called art in the past ever was.

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i agree, but some graffiti is just "tagging", where it is really not artistic at all, but rather printing a name on a wall with one color of spray paint.

 

but i don't think one should vandalize stuff just because it can be artistic. why not do it on a canvas instead? or in a way that it is not illegal? it's dissappointing that a lot of graffiti is done illegally.

 

but again, i think most graffiti is art.

Jay-Z and Danger Mouse create The Gray Album = good.

Jimmy Page sells his soul and plays Kashmir for Diddy's mediocre rhymes = bad

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What's the difference though?

 

I mean when does sampling stop being a rip-off and start being creative?

 

I'm not having a go at rap here, I am rather partial to it. Hell, one of the best live shows I've been to was a hip-hop show. I also saw the Beasties at a festival last year and they are still phenominal.

Rap is music.

 

It's a exceptionally poor and repetative style of music. It makes even the most minimalistic of pieces seem complex.

If Philip Glass is music then Rap definitely is.

 

In my opinion simply using the percussive qualities of the human voice before its melodic qualities does not stop the whole being music. I don't consider myself a fan of rap anymore, but I believe there are some truly quality albums in existence. The poor quality in the mass market does not condemn the style. It condemns the bulk-listening public.

SAY OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO G!... SAY OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO G! YEAH YEAH BABY!

 

By the way, I hate most rap. Especially that punk Eminem. But OG Loc from GTA:SA was hilarious.

Sampling is brilliant. Don

The poor quality in the mass market does not condemn the style. It condemns the bulk-listening public.

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Ultimately it is ALWAYS the consumers fault, and I love bringing that point back to people.

 

'Bad games are the fault of publishers/devs!' well, yeah, but it's the consumer that dictates weather it will happen again.

Jay-Z and Danger Mouse create The Gray Album = good.

Jimmy Page sells his soul and plays Kashmir for Diddy's mediocre rhymes = bad

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What's the difference though?

 

I mean when does sampling stop being a rip-off and start being creative?

 

I'm not having a go at rap here, I am rather partial to it. Hell, one of the best live shows I've been to was a hip-hop show. I also saw the Beasties at a festival last year and they are still phenominal.

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I guess the "difference" in my mind is how clever the piece is, and how much they are doing with the sample. Are they using the sample as a crutch or as a platform to get to something greater? I can dig someone hearing a particular riff and saying "Man, I wanna take a ride in THAT car, I've got some siiiick ideas," but I don't know about basing your hit single off a repetitive slice of a hit single from 20 years ago.

 

That's another thing. In my book, the more obscure the sample, the better. If it's unexpected, or out of left field I can appreciate it more. That Jessica Simpson song from a while back that "sampled" Ventura Highway by America is a double offender. Not only was it a huge hit in the 70s, but she pegged the whole damn song on that guitar riff. It's just pounding you over the head with it!

 

I thought the Beasties using "When the Levee Breaks" on "Rhyming and Stealing" was cool, because 1) they messed with it a little so it wasn't quite the same beat you were used to, and 2) it wasn't like they were sampling "Stairway."

 

I also thought the Gray album was a brilliant idea because the samples DJ Danger Mouse chose were totally out there. I mean, meshing Jay-Z's The Black Album with the Beatles' White Album had to present a huge challenge, but he pulled it off with aplomb. And although he used "While My Guitar Gently Weeps" and "Helter Skelter," he also sampled "Julia" and "Piggies," two of the more obscure songs he could have picked, and made them work with the Jay-Z material.

 

I never said rap wasn't music. At its best, it can truly move people. Witness the guy that destroys that Kanye West song "Never Let Me Down," with some seriously amazing rhyme and flow. I've heard it's Saul Williams, but I guess there's some debate over whether it's him or not.

RAp is not music!

RAp is not music!

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Its subjective. :cool:

Such stalwart eloquence...

Nice job Pix

 

Rap is music.  You don't have to like it.  If a vocalist goes on stage and sings without instruments, it's still called music.  Rappers may not hit high notes like a singer, but they use rhythm and voice inflection to create melodies.

 

No they don't. I use voice inflection during presentations and all speech (especially poetry, which rap is) has rhythm. Rap is not music. I don't even have a clue where you get 'melody' from, because that would make, say, me quoting Doc Holliday from Tombstone, 'melody'. At the most it's a bad poetry presentation at open mike night down at Pete's Pub.

 

Rap is not music. I never said it wasn't an artform if done right (I'm quite partial to the work of people like Saul Williams myself), but whoever says it's music needs to need a big smack in the face with the 'stop being such a goddamned tool' hammer.

 

And most of the things you here at MTV aren't even poetry (therefore, not even rap, despite what they might want to tell you). The most heinous thing about rap is, though, the people who listen to it. Chavs and gangstas. The world would be a better place if their filthy, leeching scum was wiped from the face of the planet. And nobody would have to listen to Eminem talk about his **** again.

Edited February 8, 200619 yr by TrueNeutral

music

 

mu

A common mistake is not realizing that dictionaries only give definitions or: what a word is used for and not what it means. A geek is just a circus performer who performs bizarre acts, whatever the dictionary might say. So please, take your dictionary and scram.

Edited February 8, 200619 yr by TrueNeutral

So according to the definition, Trueneutral is using music when he quotes Doc Holliday. Good job music man.

 

Seriously though, the music industry says it is music. I'll take their word on it.

 

Edit: Someone define definition for Trueneutral.

Edited February 8, 200619 yr by Hurlshot

Seriously though, the music industry says it is music.  I'll take their word on it.

 

The music industry calls most post-grunge and hard rock 'metal'.

Edited February 8, 200619 yr by TrueNeutral