The Chosen One

[Dark_Raven]

Discussion of the Chosen One concept idea that came from the Vampire Masquerade thread. I fond the ideas of great interest and thought it deserved it's own thread.

 

Please continue here.

[J.E. Sawyer]

There has to be some reason why the player's character gets done what he or she gets done instead of someone else. It could be due to circumstance, lottery, or some other random factor -- or maybe it's because the universe aligned to make him or her a Very Special Childe.

 

Personally, I like circumstantial heroes better because I don't like it when my character is told he or she is special before accomplishing anything.

[Guard Dog]

There has to be some reason why the player's character gets done what he or she gets done instead of someone else.  It could be due to circumstance, lottery, or some other random factor -- or maybe it's because the universe aligned to make him or her a Very Special Childe.

 

Personally, I like circumstantial heroes better because I don't like it when my character is told he or she is special before accomplishing anything.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Along that line I thought the Baldurs Gate concept was handled well. You live your whole life thinking you were ordinary the one day...Boom. I gather from reading the interviews the NWN2 protaganist is an "accidental hero". A person whom circumstance calls on to do great things and only becomes great by DOING these things. Am I far off?

[Gorgon]

Prophesies and chosen ones is a rather gimmicky way of controlling the course of a game. Everything must be done to preserve the illusion of freedom IMHO.

 

I'm partial to detective work myself, Like old style adventure games. The main plot doesen't have to be a constant running your head against a brick wall, but a wealth of disoverable bonuses that aid your progress in the game or just reveal something new. I like that a lot. It also gives the player a real sense of accomplishment instead of feeling led by the hand. If it's too hard, well, thats what the internet is for.

 

The spells you get from in depth discussions in PST, turning ppl to the dark/light side in KOTOR, etc.

Edited January 27, 2006 by Gorgon

[GhostofAnakin]

I like it when the Chosen One must choose.

[Jediphile]

Personally I long for a game where someone in authority identifies your character as "the chosen one" and makes it public knowledge only to then later have it revealed to the player that it's just a hoax to raise hope in the future among the population, and the main character was "chosen" only because it was really convenient at the time...

[Judge Hades]

I find it tiresome for the most part. It seems that every CRPG has the PC being the great chosen hero to save the day. As if only he or she can do this or that and absolutely no one else.

Only Revan could face Malak. Only the Exile goes to face Sion. Only the hero of Neverwinter can go to the Waterdhavian creatures and save them. Only the PC game find the GECK. Blah blah blah.

 

 

I know it is important to make the PC central to the story but it shouldn't feel like that he or she is the only one that can act. Also the villains shouldn't be waiting around for the PC to act. I mean if you are a main villain with plans to take over the world are you going to wait for the protagonist to show up to stop you? Of course not. Some villains in the CRPGs need to read the Evil Ovelord's handbook and act on those rules.

[GhostofAnakin]

I know it is important to make the PC central to the story but it shouldn't feel like that he or she is the only one that can act.  Also the villains shouldn't be waiting around for the PC to act.  I mean if you are a main villain with plans to take over the world are you going to wait for the protagonist to show up to stop you?  Of course not.  Some villains in the CRPGs need to read the Evil Ovelord's handbook and act on those rules.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

You know what would be interesting? To have a NPC hero who is trying to achieve the same goals as your PC, but for different ends depending on your alignment.

 

Almost like having a NPC alter ego of your PC trying to reach the same objectives as your PC, but faster, or at the same pace.

[Judge Hades]

Now that could be interesting, especially if the designer is leading up to a duel between the characters.

[GhostofAnakin]

Now that could be interesting, especially if the designer is leading up to a duel between the characters.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And if you lose the duel, instead of just getting a "game over" message, you see the result of the NPC hero winning.

[Kaftan Barlast]

It seems that every CRPG has the PC being the great chosen hero to save the day.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

The thing is that as long as there is a main character, he is by default "the chosen one" simply because he/she is the main protagonist. Wether your task is to save the universe(KoTOR) or to face the demons of your past(Planescape: torment) the PC is always, and will always be the main character in his/her story, and thus.. another "chosen one". Even in a game like ToEE where you have no main character, the party is the "chosen ones" who must save the day.

 

 

As long as you have a story with a main character or characters, a "chosen one" scenario is unavoidable. Sure, you could be playing a farmer who does his chores every day and occasionally seeing these weird adventurer types rushing by and finding out whats happening in the realm through gossip etc. but that no one would buy that game because it isnt interesting.

 

 

 

What you CAN do is try to tone it down and make it seem like the PC is just another John Smith up until that point where it becomes unavoidably obvious that youre the one who must save the prince and inherit half the swamp.

[Judge Hades]

Indeed or if there is a particular hard quest that you and the NPC rival have to overcome there could be an option to make a temporary alliance, then see who backstabs who first if at all.

[Hurlshort]

I like the fact that BG says you are a chosen one...but then shows a video of another chosen one getting tossed off a building by Sarevok.

 

Fallout was good too...it was definitely more of an outcast role than a chose one role.

[SteveThaiBinh]

And if you lose the duel, instead of just getting a "game over" message, you see the result of the NPC hero winning.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

So I run around trying to save the world in the knowledge that if I fail, someone else will come along and do it, probably better? Where's my motivation?

 

Is it possible to construct a playable game in which you, the player-controlled character, are not the obvious protagonist of the story? NWN from the henchman's point of view and who knows what kind of 'hero' will hire you?

[mkreku]

Personally, I like circumstantial heroes better because I don't like it when my character is told he or she is special before accomplishing anything.

What the.. Why aren't you busy designing the game of my dreams?! Stop wasting time on this board and go work on it!!

 

Seriously though, one of the reasons why Gothic/Gothic 2 suited me so perfectly is the fact that the main character is nothing but a lowly criminal that just wants to escape "jail" but ends up overthrowing evil in the end. He never feels like "teh Chosen one", just a nobody that you, as a player, gets a chance to redeem.. or at least build into something you enjoy playing. He has no backstory, no name and no burden of any kind. I like.

 

The more I hear from this Sawyer dude about his preferences in games, the more I feel like some brown nosing prick. I have to stop agreeing so damn much.

[Judge Hades]

Do you need a tissue?

[Slowtrain]

I've never played a computer game where it mattered even a little whether I was the chosen one or a laundry machine repair person with a tap in her kidneys. So the chosen one concept is ok with me.

 

All character backgrounds in crpgs need to do is to function as an excuse to whack something with a sword. Groundling or god is irrelevant.

[Llyranor]

Yeah, if I wanted a story, I'd go read a book!

 

The thing with singleplayer RPGs is that it's all about the player. The player doesn't want glory taken away from him/her, and thus has to be the only hero who solves ever quest and saves the day. If any sort of competitive format is implemented, where the player has to compete with other entities to solve whatever s/he's tackling, there's be some whining. LOL it's my game I should be able to do whatever I want ROFLTUNASANDWICH!

[Ewen Brown]

The more I hear from this Sawyer dude about his preferences in games, the more I feel like some brown nosing prick. I have to stop agreeing so damn much.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

meh, insist that grenades shouldn't be melee weapons and you should be fine

[Judge Hades]

HA!

[Llyranor]

Until JE hunts you down and beats the daylights out of you with a grenade.

 

"THIS IS WHY THEY'RE MELEE"

[Judge Hades]

I am trying to devise a DnD scenerio for NWN in which the PC isn't the central character to the world. In fact there are no central characters. Much like in real life people do what they do because that is what they do. You would be one of many adventurers on the same basic quest and while you are persuing one course they are persuing another, and if you meet then you meet. Of course you could fail in your side of the quest and they could succeed in thiers or vice versa.

 

Like the Neverwinter Nights OC, when I last went through the prelude there was 5 surviving graduates. One of these five could have gone out and worked on the recovering mission while my character works on another part of the recovery mission. If they failed, such as

the yuan ti guts them and puts their head on a pike

I should see it when I show up.

 

Make the world a bit more dynamic.

[Guard Dog]

I am trying to devise a DnD scenerio for NWN in which the PC isn't the central character to the world.  In fact there are no central characters.  Much like in real life people do what they do because that is what they do.  You would be one of many adventurers on the same basic quest and while you are persuing one course they are persuing another, and if you meet then you meet.  Of course you could fail in your side of the quest and they could succeed in thiers or vice versa.

 

Like the Neverwinter Nights OC, when I last went through the prelude there was 5 surviving graduates.  One of these five could have gone out and worked on the recovering mission while my character works on another part of the recovery mission.  If they failed, such as

the yuan ti guts them and puts their head on a pike

I should see it when I show up.

 

Make the world a bit more dynamic.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If the entire graduating class could be wiped out by a handfull of weak goblins and a few lvl 1 mages they were not worth a crap and Neverwinter was screwed in any case.

Edited January 27, 2006 by Guard Dog

[Cantousent]

How about a story where the other character's identify the PC as the "Chosen One" but it turns out that his campanion was actually the Chosen One all along?

 

I actually like Hades' idea about world without "Chosen Ones" On the flip-side, however, chosen or not there will be someone who stands out and does something spectacular. At the very least, there will be one person who personifies the movement. So, get rid of the prophesy, but the main character will end up being important anyhow. How important and whether he shares the stage with other characters is another matter.

[Judge Hades]

Very good point, Eldar, and I agree with it. I mean here in the real world we don't have chosen ones but there have been individuals of very important of note through out history and even today. Sometimes it is circumstance other times it is for personal desires or piety.