The Savior and the Destroyer

[darknesslord]

The question is why didn't Obsidian just stick to BioWare's portrayl of Revan? Why did they have to screw it up with there own silly interpretation? And then why did they have to add in this 'True Sith' garbage? The fact is (If you listen to Master Dorak properley in KOTOR...) Revan was evil. If he/she wasn't captured by the Jedi Council he/she would have destroyed both the Republic and the Jedi Order. He/she was corrupt just like Malak was, end of story...And since when does a person who apparently isn't really evil capture and torture or kill Jedi huh? It doesn't make any sense. Folks, do yourself a favour and stick to BioWare's portrayl of Revan, not Obsidian's screwed up one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

here's the reason why so many person prefers the bioware's story. because it is SIMPLE and CLICHE, and COMPLETLY STUPID.

 

the true goal of revan (and yes he was wrong and corrupted) was to eliminated the the jedi order, because he was frustrated by their fear and inactivity. That's why he created the sith order, because he knew the jedi would fight the siths no matter what. but after they captured him, (or her) malak continued and tried to destroy the republic.

 

and the reason he captured and tortured jedi was to turn them to his side, and kill those who refuse, just like malachor V

 

but if you prefer a stupid ass who attack the republic for no reason at all other than being (evil) then go and play kotor 1, you obviously dont have the IQ to understant kotor 2

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I do understand Obsidian's interpretation about what Revan's true goal was fool, don't go jumping to conclusions when you don't know who your talking to. There is no need to get all worked up, it's just a game. And I should never have said what I said though, I do like Obsidian's interpretation, I agree that BioWare's was too simplistic and that Obsidian's is actually better. But I just got a little annoyed when I heard people saying things like Revan never fell to the dark side, etc when the truth is he/she did. That was the point I was trying to get across, but at least you realise that Revan was actually evil. Malak said himself to Revan on the Leviathin 'You are the one who taught me the ways of the Sith.' So they did fall to the dark side. And I do understand Obsidian's interpretation. I know that Revan had good intentions and he/she chose the ways of the Sith because he/she viewed the Jedi as weak cowards and knew they wouldn't fight against the Ancient Sith Empire. But I take back everything I said about Obsdian's version being stupid, it isn't.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

yes, but you forget that the republic never won. it was forfeit because when revan killed malak, the war stopped.  and be careful what you say about the jedi. They were scared to go to war, therefor placing their own needs in front of those of the outer rim worlds dying.

 

and for their so called vision, this dark threat camed out of their inactivity. had they gone to the war, maybe the sith would have think twice before attacking. nogood will ever come from inactivity.

 

revan's goal was to protect the galaxy, not the republic, and I think many people here have a hard time seeing the difference. he cared nothing about a republic not able to defend theirselves.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Revan's actions hurt both the Republic and the Galaxy. And the Jedi would have definitely gone to war if they had known about the True Sith. And the Republic won, becuase it defeated the Sith fleet at the battle of the Star Forge. And after the war, it was a wounded animal, on the verge of collapsing.

 

As for his actions, maybe he did them out of his lust for power? Or maybe because he had become corrupted from the wars? Or maybe that he felt the Republic and Jedi were weak and had to be eliminated?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

oh the jedi would have attacked the true sith indeed... but they would have failed even more than with revan's and malak's army. they were afraid, they were corrupted. they refused to go to war because they saw what would happen to them (what happened pretty much anyway) but they didn't do it to save the republic. I wonder what would've happened if the republic lost to the mandalorian, oh yes it would have been so better.

 

to me, it's pretty much refusing to fight the germain because you see all the deaths there will be

Edited January 14, 2006 by darknesslord

[DAWUSS]

Goto: In one standard month, the Republic will collapse; not due to war or secession but because it lacks the infrastructure to support itself.

 

 

The Republic is clearly in a state of rebuilding as war drained out most of their resources. If the True Sith attack the Republic, there would be a good chance the True Sith would win because the Republic is so shorthanded at the moment

[darknesslord]

yeah, but with the exile's student searching for all the delusionned jedi, (or serching student but I think that's stupid) and the mandalorians reforming (and possibly becoming the defenders of the republic finally) then they could stand a chance, and what an epic ending that would be

[DeathScepter]

the main reason for Goto's thinking is that Malak's Stupidity cost the Republic dearly.

 

Malak=Muscle/enforcer

 

Revan=Brains

 

 

Without Revan, Malak became an uncontrollable psychopath. In Turn, He destroy any major resources, So if he "won" the War, he has nothing to rule over.

 

Revan wanted to have something to rule over. So that is why Revan's stragety is to preserved the intrastructure of the Republic while trying to defeat it.

 

Howbeit he was captured and lost his memory and became a Jedi Pawn.

 

His memory did return and He did place important Allies in their strongest position like Carth as an Admiral and Canderous as the New Mandalore.

 

Also I wont be surprised that he has a hand in the Exile returing into Known Space.

 

I always wonder why was Atton in that Cell when the Exile found him at Perguas. Atton never said why he was in that Cell.

 

So I will keep an open mind about it.

 

 

 

In do think in Kotor 3, I do think we will see how deep Revan's backup plan is.

 

I do know that the Kayyakk Star Map Computer is a part of his greater plan.

[indarkestday]

I have a feeling Revan had noble reasons for starting the Jedi Civil War while the republic was still weak. When he found Malachor V, his moral sense was somewhat twisted by the dark energies he tasted there. He saw that the republic had no chance against these true Sith and decided sacrifices had to be made for the greater good. However, his sight of what the greater good was was fogged up by the dark side. He decided that he would have to fall and that he would attack the Republic in its less important areas to prepare it for the bigger threat. It would make the republic stronger, that is if it was still a republic once he had control over it. I'm not sure why he just didn't use the Star Forge to build up the republic forces, but maybe his now-dark mind thought the republic needed to be ruled by the Sith to win also. Kreia held that he never fell, but she had lost perspective at Malachor too. She thought she was doing right when she planned to remove that so-called heartless manipulative Force from the destinies of its sentients. However, she manipulated and was uncaring towards many people herself in achieving her goal, and she never realized the irony of it. Revan did not realize that it's better for a republic to meet its end still a republic, with its key ideals of humanity than to become the same destructive empire it was trying to fight, just to thrive for a little longer. After he is given a second chance by Bastila and the council, he remembers the Sith, but this time fights them alone while asking Carth and Mandalore to strengthen the Republic. So, he had good intentions all along, but needed to get his perspective straight. I'm happy with what Obsidian did with him as long as they don't think he made no mistakes.

Edited January 14, 2006 by indarkestday

[Bulgarian Jedi]

As is seems, Revan had planed some of the events in K2, but no one knows what exactly they are and what are the reasons and intentions behind these palns.

Maybe he/she ordered Kreia to find the Exile, so that he/she can have a valuabe ally in the battle with "The True Sith" or whatever the threat was.

 

I don't know if it's just me, but I would love to see Revan's plans backfire in a rather devastating way.

[dufflover]

I don't know if it's just me, but I would love to see Revan's plans backfire in a rather devastating way.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They did at the start didn't they? I mean he did an Anakin and thought that the Dark Side would be the saviour where in fact it did the exact opposite.

[germi91]

??? 

 

Due to WAR the whole European Union lay in ruins, without a chance of fixing itself. The only reason that we recovered is because big US who stayed out of the war (and thus made big $$$ of us) handed us a part of the money they made by us killing each other...

 

If we didn't got that cash, well, we would have all been USSR now...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Wrong. The US did not stay out of the war. It also cost the US a lot of money, but their influence was greatly extended over Europe. But, once again, you are looking at the physical aspect of the war. Besides, the 'money' you mention is called 'Marshall Aid'. Many countries accepted this money (It was not a donation and it was not out of the goodness of the USA. They were motivated by self-interest in that they could create more markets in Europe, therefore avoiding another depression like the one in 1929), but they would have to give it back in time, which they did.

The war made Europe stronger, in that the people learned not to trust radical parties, for example, or that Europe became more united than ever into cooperating.

[BattleCookiee]

If you wan't to continue discussing this, it should be taken to WoT...

[Dark Moth]

Wrong. The US did not stay out of the war. It also cost the US a lot of money, but their influence was greatly extended over Europe. But, once again, you are looking at the physical aspect of the war. Besides, the 'money' you mention is called 'Marshall Aid'. Many countries accepted this money (It was not a donation and it was not out of the goodness of the USA. They were motivated by self-interest in that they could create more markets in Europe, therefore avoiding another depression like the one in 1929), but they would have to give it back in time, which they did.

The war made Europe stronger, in that the people learned not to trust radical parties, for example, or that Europe became more united than ever into cooperating.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The war made Europe stronger only becuase it was allowed to recover and it received help from us. But what about Europe after the war? It was practically in ruins. Same way after World War I. And don't just look at those two wars. Most wars leave a nation weakened afterward. Just look at France after the defeat of Napoleon, or the U.S. after the Civil War. Just look at any country involved in long conflicts. Just look at how the arms race in the Cold War weakened the U.S.S.R.

 

The same would have happened with the Republic/galaxy - and it did happen. Aren't we forgetting the Republic was close to collapsing in the beginning of K2? The entire galaxy was weakened. It was ripe for the picking by any outside invaders, like the True Sith.

Edited January 15, 2006 by Mothman

[Sentry]

As is seems, Revan had planed some of the events in K2, but no one knows what exactly they are and what are the reasons and intentions behind these palns.

Maybe he/she ordered Kreia to find the Exile, so that he/she can have a valuabe ally in the battle with "The True Sith" or whatever the threat was.

 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

T3 pretty much states in his convo's that he was sent by Revan to "find help". I interpret this to mean that he (it?) was ordered to find the Exile. As for the rest of the plot, it is impossible to say how much aid Revan gave the Exile in his/her campaign against the Sith Lords...

Edited January 16, 2006 by Sentry

[DeathScepter]

Revan, in his own dememted way, is a savior of the galaxy.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

I honestly don't know why Revan did not tell the Jedi Council and maybe even the Republic Senate of the True Sith threat instead of taking matters into his own hands like he God or something. I think it might have to be about the infamous quote from Canderous when he says that the Sith offered them the chance to attack the Republic, knowing the Mandalorians couldn't resist, but then says that they retreated back to their Empire.

 

Why didn't Revan take his fleet and go attack the True Sith unless they are more of a threat than we can think of.

 

And people always compare the OJO to the NJO and they feel the NJO would be stronger only because they were always brought up through war unlike the OJO which enjoyed 1000 years of peace and lost it in 3. But I don't think this was part of Revan's plan. Kreia said that Revan learned to despise weakness and probably would have preferred his Empire fightiing the True Sith rather than serving a weak and corrupt Republic and Jedi Council.

 

But while there are all these things happening, Mandalorian Wars, Jedi Civil War, and the Shadow War against the Jedi led by Nihilus and Sion, the True Sith are just sitting back and enjoying this waiting for the time to strike.

[Chupacabra]

Revan, in his own dememted way, is a savior of the galaxy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

[DarkAngle]

Revan is an awsome character. Not only does he look cool, he has depth that many characters lack. He was a man of great loyalty that saw a threat and reacted to it in the only way he could. He realized that a great, unified galaxy was nessassary to face the grave threat massing on the edges of known space. So he and his retarded apprentice Malak hunted down the star forge, and in doing so, fell to the dark side. But I think that even as a Sith Lord, even as he kill millions, he had a core of goodness that controled the darkness. He knew what he was doing. And when the Jedi council (Boy, they remind me of the U.N!) reacted to him, they could not see what he saw. So they messed up his plans. After the events of KOTOR I, he continued, this time as the LS, and refused to take along any friends or his love, so he could face the threat down himself.

[darknesslord]

you would have prefered they do nothing? he would have crushed the republic and the jedi council both. I think revan was fully consumed by the darkside. when he learned of the true sith, mixed with his frustration toward the weakness and fear of the republic (more so of the jedi) he got angry and decided to crush them both

[Dark Wastl]

I honestly don't know why Revan did not tell the Jedi Council and maybe even the Republic Senate of the True Sith threat instead of taking matters into his own hands like he God or something. I think it might have to be about the infamous quote from Canderous when he says that the Sith offered them the chance to attack the Republic, knowing the Mandalorians couldn't resist, but then says that they retreated back to their Empire.

 

Why didn't Revan take his fleet and go attack the True Sith unless they are more of a threat than we can think of.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The Republic, or better the senate and the Jedi Council, would have done the same thing as in the last war, sit and wait.

Revan knew fully well, that neither the Senate nor any Jedi would ever think about using the tactics necessary to beat the True Sith.

It's always easier to win a war, if the leader is a master tactician and has full control over everything. You don't need to discuss anything, nor do you have to listen to anybody who doesn't like your tactics. Leaving planets without defense to strengthen more important ones, isn't something a Jedi would do, nor would the senate even think about it.

 

The first thing they would have done, is to check if what Revan said is actually true. They wouldn't have build up to fight a war, nor would they have made a preemtive strike, if necessary.

 

If Revan would have thought that the True Sith could be beat by his fleet, he would have tried it. The True Sith aren't some people hiding on a remote planet, they are strong in the force and actually have a plan to take over the galaxy. You don't do that, if you are weak.

They didn't spend the whole second game to build up the True Sith, only to make them a simple enemy who can be beat easily.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

If Revan would have thought that the True Sith could be beat by his fleet, he would have tried it. The True Sith aren't some people hiding on a remote planet, they are strong in the force and actually have a plan to take over the galaxy. You don't do that, if you are weak.

They didn't spend the whole second game to build up the True Sith, only to make them a simple enemy who can be beat easily.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I never said the True Sith were weak. It's just that what kind of threat do they pose if Revan had to go to war against the Republic and the Jedi in order to prepare for the True Sith instead of trying to take them head on. At the end of K2 the Jedi are pretty much all dead as well as the Sith(Kreia, Sion, Nihilus) and yet Revan goes off alone to face them "in his own way" as Kreia put it.

 

The way I look at it is that Revan probably had a better chance when he had a third of the Republic fleet and Star Forge. But maybe I am looking at this all wrong.

[DeathScepter]

Just because Revan went there alone it doesn't mean he will go there unarmed.

 

For being intelligant is one of Revan's strong points.

[Jedi Master D Murda]

Sure Revan was intelligent but to fall to the dark side to destroy the True Sith was pretty stupid just like Luke falling to the darkside in order to defeat Palpatine in those Dark Empire comics. Revan's whole plan, in my opinion, was pretty stupid... but that's just me.

[hawk]

There are some problems with Revan's DS motives aren't there?

The main problem being that we play as Revan in Kotor I, so we could make him/her the way we want him/her to be. There are so many choices. But no, I don't think Obsidian did a bad job with how they made Revan.

About the True Sith threat though, well yes, they are the cause of the Mandalorian Wars. From the Mandalorian Wars came the Jedi Civil War. The only things the True Sith lost are the Star Forge, Sion, Nihilus, Kreia and possibly one of their academies (Malachor V).

The Sith lords were not really the True Sith but I do think them allies of the true Sith since they did help destroy the Jedi Order and the Republic.

 

And in the mean time, the True Sith could build lots of ships, weapons etc.. We don't know about armies, perhaps the sith have some kind of cloning technology, we'll see.

 

Somehow however I don't think Revan will actually fight the True Sith Empire on his own. He probably went to the Unknown Regions to spy, collect data and when he has completed his goals, go back to republic space to make strategies to deal with this threat.

And it isn't Revan's plan to go for help. That was T3-M4's plan.

"But you decided to go for help anyway" is one of the lines you can say to the droid when you got the hologram of Bastila or Carth.

[germi91]

Wrong. The US did not stay out of the war. It also cost the US a lot of money, but their influence was greatly extended over Europe. But, once again, you are looking at the physical aspect of the war. Besides, the 'money' you mention is called 'Marshall Aid'. Many countries accepted this money (It was not a donation and it was not out of the goodness of the USA. They were motivated by self-interest in that they could create more markets in Europe, therefore avoiding another depression like the one in 1929), but they would have to give it back in time, which they did.

The war made Europe stronger, in that the people learned not to trust radical parties, for example, or that Europe became more united than ever into cooperating.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

The war made Europe stronger only becuase it was allowed to recover and it received help from us. But what about Europe after the war? It was practically in ruins. Same way after World War I. And don't just look at those two wars. Most wars leave a nation weakened afterward. Just look at France after the defeat of Napoleon, or the U.S. after the Civil War. Just look at any country involved in long conflicts. Just look at how the arms race in the Cold War weakened the U.S.S.R.

 

The same would have happened with the Republic/galaxy - and it did happen. Aren't we forgetting the Republic was close to collapsing in the beginning of K2? The entire galaxy was weakened. It was ripe for the picking by any outside invaders, like the True Sith.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Again, you are looking at the physical and not in the psychological. Yes, Europe was in ruins. Yes, wars weaken the countries economy. The point that l was trying to show, is that the PEOPLE IN SUCH COUNTRY LEARN FROM THEIR MISTAKES. The countries of Europe understood that the only way to stop war, was to COOPERATE and help each other, instead of holding grudges with each other. This is what Kreia was referring to. The psychological part of Revan's war, not the economic.

[DeathScepter]

Even in War, Techonlogy grows even faster.