Shooting for 30 hours?

[Judge Hades]

The level cap is 20 and it has a toolset. Sheesh. What more do you want? If you say Epic rules I hate to tell you that the Epic rules system in d20 is broken and frankly I don't want it in NWN 2 until its fixed.

[mkreku]

I always have a difficult time understanding complaints about length... wouldn't you prefer a shorter overall game that had deeper content rather than a longer, less polished game?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That

[Weiser_Cain]

Broken how? By the way, I want epic rules and no class cap period.

[Judge Hades]

I agree with no class cap but they are broken because how they Diabloizes Dungeons and Dragons. It is lame.

[alanschu]

Nathaniel for the win!

 

P.S. Of course, FO2 was significantly longer and still had lots of branching stories, plots, and quests...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

At the same time, I also found Fallout 2 to be a significantly more buggy game. It was still great, but I found ways to break it much more than the original Fallout.

 

 

It's stuff like this that I've been trying to convey to Roshan about his "cheap and simple" addition of 15 hours of RP dialogue.

[Spider]

Hmmm, wasn't the level cap for BG, with TotSC, 8-9 (10 for a thief)? ... Also, kinda wondering how many of those 60 hours were spent tromping through (mostly) empty maps.

 

Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed BG as well, and I can't remember how many hours it took me to complete. It was quite a few, cuz I tromped through all those empty areas myself.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

With TotSC yes. I was referring to without when I wrote 60 hours though. It's possible I exaggerated the amount of time it took me to play through it, it was a long time ago (since I played it the first time, these days I do it significantly faster, partially due to Tutu).

 

And yes, a lot of the time consisted of empty maps. Or at least mostly empty, there was always some encounter.

 

Except that I found that I hit the level cap long before I hit the endgame.  It's easy to be a low level campaign when you artificially restrict the player.  Odd that Hades doesn't seem to mind that bending of the rules though.

 

But they broke it with BG2, and especially TOB, when levels started getting handed out (and phat lewt) like they were going out of style.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

This is true and this could have been handled differently. I usually reach the cap before entering Baldur's Gate so I know what you mean. This is more a problem with having so many sidequests though.

 

Although I never really had a problem with the level cap.

[alanschu]

Yeah, that analogy annoys the hell out of me too. Just because you spend a lot of effort and time on a project and make it long, doesn't automatically mean it has to be unpolished or flawed.Being long and good aren't mutually exclusive!

 

It becomes an issue when you don't have infinite resources. And the longer the game gets, the increase in cost goes up exponentially.

 

Check out what Blizzard has done on World of Warcraft for an excellent example of a polished and long game (although in a very different genre).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Well, according to some (Kalfear), WoW is a poor knockoff of implementations that were copied from other games and all that.

 

To be honest though, as much as I'm a fan of WoW, it really isn't that deep of a game. Quests and all that are very similar, and don't really affect the gameworld at all.

[Volourn]

"At the same time, I also found Fallout 2 to be a significantly more buggy game. It was still great, but I found ways to break it much more than the original Fallout.

 

 

It's stuff like this that I've been trying to convey to Roshan about his "cheap and simple" addition of 15 hours of RP dialogue."

 

True. But, it's Roshan. This is a guy who started a religion over a video game so it doesn't bode well when it comes to taking him seriously. "

[Diogo Ribeiro]

I think they need to revise the design doc and take a few lessons from japanese game designers.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I wish I had the design doc for Final Fantasy VII so I could learn the exact formula required to make 40% of the gameplay hours consist of random encounters and summon effects.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

C-C-Combo Breaker!

[Judge Hades]

Volourn, talking logic to any of us is a act of futility.

[Volourn]

Aye, it's also illogical.

[alanschu]

"At the same time, I also found Fallout 2 to be a significantly more buggy game. It was still great, but I found ways to break it much more than the original Fallout.

 

 

It's stuff like this that I've been trying to convey to Roshan about his "cheap and simple" addition of 15 hours of RP dialogue."

 

True. But, it's Roshan. This is a guy who started a religion over a video game so it doesn't bode well when it comes to taking him seriously. "

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Hahaha. Would you by any chance have a link, or at least some info about that one :D

[Volourn]

Sadly, no. This occured over on the old BIS/Interplay forums a good 2-3 years ago. I was a relative newbie to the internet at the time. LOL

 

Info wise, there was a lot of debate whether which game between BG2 and PST was the better one. Roshan and his cohorts decided tot ake it to the enxt level and started a PST Religion. I forgot what their actual name was. They even had 'Commandments' for members as well as a heirachy.

Edited January 12, 2006 by Volourn

[alanschu]

Hahahaha.

[Judge Hades]

I remember that.

 

1) Thou shalt not annoy the Lady of Pain.

2) Thou shalt not liken the Trascendent One to Irenicus. Irenicus is a whiny bastard.

3) Thou shall Blah blah blah...

 

[Diogo Ribeiro]

Sadly, no. This occured over on the old BIS/Interplay forums a good 2-3 years ago. I was a relative newbie to the internet at the time. LOL

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

If you're somewhat sure of what the thread was like, you can try the Wayback Machine.

[Plano Skywalker]

I always have a difficult time understanding complaints about length... wouldn't you prefer a shorter overall game that had deeper content rather than a longer, less polished game?

 

I mean, for example, Fallout was not a very long game, honestly.  10-15 hours probably my first time through.  If it had been 30-40 hours but didn't have as many choices or as much branching content, I think that would have been significantly worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I actually have no problem with that argument. Thing is, NWN2 people will have amateur-created adventures and (presumably) official expansions (both shrinkwrap and downloadable, again presumably).

 

What kind of stinks is when a game like KOTOR 2 or JE has relatively short content and you know there ARE NO EXPANSIONS.

 

I think games like that should have at least 3 official expansions to tide you over to the next title in the series.

[alanschu]

I always have a difficult time understanding complaints about length... wouldn't you prefer a shorter overall game that had deeper content rather than a longer, less polished game?

 

I mean, for example, Fallout was not a very long game, honestly.  10-15 hours probably my first time through.  If it had been 30-40 hours but didn't have as many choices or as much branching content, I think that would have been significantly worse.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I actually have no problem with that argument. Thing is, NWN2 people will have amateur-created adventures and (presumably) official expansions (both shrinkwrap and downloadable, again presumably).

 

What kind of stinks is when a game like KOTOR 2 or JE has relatively short content and you know there ARE NO EXPANSIONS.

 

I think games like that should have at least 3 official expansions to tide you over to the next title in the series.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

At the same time, many would often prefer that they make the next game so you can play IT sooner.

[Meshugger]

Sadly, no. This occured over on the old BIS/Interplay forums a good 2-3 years ago. I was a relative newbie to the internet at the time. LOL

 

Info wise, there was a lot of debate whether which game between BG2 and PST was the better one. Roshan and his cohorts decided tot ake it to the enxt level and started a PST Religion. I forgot what their actual name was. They even had 'Commandments' for members as well as a heirachy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

What?

 

Hahahahahahahahaha.

 

Seriously though, has Obsidian hinted about any addons to NWN2? That would clear out the debate about levelling/length soon enough.

[Gabrielle]

For a 30 to 40 hour game, anything above 10th is ridiculous.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Anything not above 10 is pathetic. Level 99 should be the cut off point.

[Gabrielle]

I liked IWD 2.  It was a good challenge, though game length isn't the issue for me.  It is the leveling.  Will it be free levels for everyone like NWN 1 and both KotORs were or are we oing to have a proper level pacing?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IWD2 leveling sucks and I blame it on stupid 3rd ed rules. That's one thing I hated about IWD2. The other IE games were far better under 2nd ed rules.

[Darque]

Dual Classing in BG for the win

[Gabrielle]

Dual Classing in BG for the win

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Multiclass for the win. I play nonhuman races.

[Judge Hades]

Yeah, but you can play a drow in IWD 2.

[Gabrielle]

Yeah, but you can play a drow in IWD 2.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

IWD2 it's only saving grace is the other races you can play, like drow.