Jade Empire Bombed

[Darque]

I prefer 2D games over 3D games myself. Usually 2D games in people's opinions are not so great graphically, but at least those old games have better roleplaying and replaying ability. A lot of these new games are throw aways. You play through it once and you don't play it again. You go out and buy the "newest" game.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It seems the more the developers focus on graphics, the less "game" we get

 

 

Sadly I think we represent the small percentage oif intelligent gamers. Moist gamers are juisit retards whoi buiy whatever they hear has goioid graphics oir whatever is oivierhyped.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I agree with you sadly

[roshan]

You don't think graphics are important?  You're in the minority.  Graphics, and overall aesthetics are very important to the majority of players.  Graphics are important for hooking players in, and then maintaining longevity.  The average player doesn't pick up a box and read all the game's features; fact is all a game's features can't fit on the box.  So they rely on visual appeal to hook them.  Once the game's visuals sell it, the gameplay kicks in.

 

For games like MMOs, the visuals have to hold their own, otherwise subscribers leave for the next wave of games.  Why play an ugly paladin in Everquest when you can play a less ugly Paladin in Lineage?  (I've never played or even looked at either game so I don't know if you can even PLAY a paladin in those games, just an example).

 

Graphics don't sell games, they help too and are a major factor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Technical graphical improiivements are welcoime the impoirtant thing aboiuit the graphics oifi the game is that it shoiuild be varied and artistic, and it shoiuild noiti negatively impact the gameplay.

 

And sadly yoiuire 100 percent coiirrect that graphics sell games. And spoirits games are proioif oif this. Coiimpanies keep making the same spoirits game again and again except with better graphics, and peoiple keep buiying the new versioins. Spoirts games alsoi proive that moisit peoiple are brain dead becauise these guiys are soi uinintelligent that they doinit realize that theyre wasting their moiiney buiying a game they already have at hoiimie.

[metadigital]

You don't think graphics are important?  You're in the minority.  Graphics, and overall aesthetics are very important to the majority of players.  Graphics are important for hooking players in, and then maintaining longevity.  The average player doesn't pick up a box and read all the game's features; fact is all a game's features can't fit on the box.  So they rely on visual appeal to hook them.  Once the game's visuals sell it, the gameplay kicks in.

 

For games like MMOs, the visuals have to hold their own, otherwise subscribers leave for the next wave of games.  Why play an ugly paladin in Everquest when you can play a less ugly Paladin in Lineage?  (I've never played or even looked at either game so I don't know if you can even PLAY a paladin in those games, just an example).

 

Graphics don't sell games, they help too and are a major factor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Actaully, ironically, you mention Lineage where the graphics were about as high-res as a TRS-80. (I say was, because Lineage II is out now, but the graphics aren't much better: certainly not to the standard of occidental MMORPGs).

 

You are thinking like a marketing type wants and expects you to think, about shoes; washing powder; fruit; any packaged goods.

[alanschu]

Who do you blame more, the addict or the pusher?

 

The pusher. Consumers should quit pushing for better graphics :D

 

 

As for the "old" games with poorer graphics that we still like, how much of that is because we've already played them? I tried going back and playing some of the original NES games that I missed out on, but I just couldn't get past the bad graphics. But I'm totally into playing 8 hour marathons of Mega Man 2. I think nostalgia affects a lot of our preferences. I don't know many people that have been able to pick up Fallout, today, having never played it, that has played it long enough to see the game that it is.

 

They usually get hung up on the interface and the graphics. Furthermore, reading is becoming passe. We're getting spoiled with spoken lines of dialogue, and when you see Morte's miniature essay for a response after every dialogue option, it can be a bit burdensome.

 

As for games like Planescape: Torment being "terrific," don't forget that we're the specific market audience for it. I have seen many people that have not enjoyed PS:T, as it just wasn't their kind of game. Please don't go completely ignoring their tastes when you make statements such as PS:T being absolutely terrific. I love PS:T as much as anyone else too.

 

 

 

As for Lineage, well, Blizzard could put out a game that lookd marginally better than their previous iteration and people would still buy it based on the success of the previous.

 

Lineage came out in 1998. 3D accelerators were still in their infancy, and the other big MMORPG had similar graphics. Once it had the installed base, it didn't need the better graphics because people were already playing Lineage I. I wonder if people would still make the transition if Lineage II had much better gameplay, but WORSE graphics?

[Lord Tingeling]

You don't think graphics are important?  You're in the minority.  Graphics, and overall aesthetics are very important to the majority of players.  Graphics are important for hooking players in, and then maintaining longevity.  The average player doesn't pick up a box and read all the game's features; fact is all a game's features can't fit on the box.  So they rely on visual appeal to hook them.  Once the game's visuals sell it, the gameplay kicks in.

 

For games like MMOs, the visuals have to hold their own, otherwise subscribers leave for the next wave of games.  Why play an ugly paladin in Everquest when you can play a less ugly Paladin in Lineage?  (I've never played or even looked at either game so I don't know if you can even PLAY a paladin in those games, just an example).

 

Graphics don't sell games, they help too and are a major factor.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I wholly agree.

[Tigranes]

Of course, just because graphics increase as gameplay supposedly decreases, and just because those COULD have a causal relationship, doesn't mean they DO. Those in this board should know this quite clearly, since this is the argument that lays flat all the Jack Thompsons. I believe Bethesda pointed this out when they said, artists aren't designing in their spare time, they just don't design. Of course, you could bring in salaries and the like, but is graphics the only, or the primary, reason for the trend? Many other things could be blamed, say, the 'mainstream' appeal the games work for now.

[Child of Flame]

Who do you blame more, the addict or the pusher?

 

The pusher. Consumers should quit pushing for better graphics :D

 

 

As for the "old" games with poorer graphics that we still like, how much of that is because we've already played them? I tried going back and playing some of the original NES games that I missed out on, but I just couldn't get past the bad graphics. But I'm totally into playing 8 hour marathons of Mega Man 2. I think nostalgia affects a lot of our preferences. I don't know many people that have been able to pick up Fallout, today, having never played it, that has played it long enough to see the game that it is.

 

They usually get hung up on the interface and the graphics. Furthermore, reading is becoming passe. We're getting spoiled with spoken lines of dialogue, and when you see Morte's miniature essay for a response after every dialogue option, it can be a bit burdensome.

 

As for games like Planescape: Torment being "terrific," don't forget that we're the specific market audience for it. I have seen many people that have not enjoyed PS:T, as it just wasn't their kind of game. Please don't go completely ignoring their tastes when you make statements such as PS:T being absolutely terrific. I love PS:T as much as anyone else too.

 

 

 

As for Lineage, well, Blizzard could put out a game that lookd marginally better than their previous iteration and people would still buy it based on the success of the previous.

 

Lineage came out in 1998. 3D accelerators were still in their infancy, and the other big MMORPG had similar graphics. Once it had the installed base, it didn't need the better graphics because people were already playing Lineage I. I wonder if people would still make the transition if Lineage II had much better gameplay, but WORSE graphics?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I picked up and played through not only Fallout, but an abandonware copy of Wasteland in the past year.

 

I've also played Zork.

 

So NYAH!

[roshan]

Who do you blame more, the addict or the pusher?

 

The pusher. Consumers should quit pushing for better graphics :D

 

 

As for the "old" games with poorer graphics that we still like, how much of that is because we've already played them? I tried going back and playing some of the original NES games that I missed out on, but I just couldn't get past the bad graphics. But I'm totally into playing 8 hour marathons of Mega Man 2. I think nostalgia affects a lot of our preferences. I don't know many people that have been able to pick up Fallout, today, having never played it, that has played it long enough to see the game that it is.

 

They usually get hung up on the interface and the graphics. Furthermore, reading is becoming passe. We're getting spoiled with spoken lines of dialogue, and when you see Morte's miniature essay for a response after every dialogue option, it can be a bit burdensome.

 

As for games like Planescape: Torment being "terrific," don't forget that we're the specific market audience for it. I have seen many people that have not enjoyed PS:T, as it just wasn't their kind of game. Please don't go completely ignoring their tastes when you make statements such as PS:T being absolutely terrific. I love PS:T as much as anyone else too.

 

 

 

As for Lineage, well, Blizzard could put out a game that lookd marginally better than their previous iteration and people would still buy it based on the success of the previous.

 

Lineage came out in 1998. 3D accelerators were still in their infancy, and the other big MMORPG had similar graphics. Once it had the installed base, it didn't need the better graphics because people were already playing Lineage I. I wonder if people would still make the transition if Lineage II had much better gameplay, but WORSE graphics?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I have foiuind varioiuis oild games like wasteland toi be uinplayable, buit that was mainly duie toi interface issuies.

 

Juist last year I introiduiced falloiuit 2 toi my coiuisin whoi noirmally oinily plays games with fancy graphics and he loived it.

[metadigital]

...

As for the "old" games with poorer graphics that we still like, how much of that is because we've already played them?  I tried going back and playing some of the original NES games that I missed out on, but I just couldn't get past the bad graphics.  But I'm totally into playing 8 hour marathons of Mega Man 2.  I think nostalgia affects a lot of our preferences.  I don't know many people that have been able to pick up Fallout, today, having never played it, that has played it long enough to see the game that it is.

 

They usually get hung up on the interface and the graphics.  Furthermore, reading is becoming passe.  We're getting spoiled with spoken lines of dialogue, and when you see Morte's miniature essay for a response after every dialogue option, it can be a bit burdensome.

...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As yo your first point, it is impossible to say with hindsight. But let's analyze each component, logically.

 

I have recently played System Shock 2 for the first time, and the graphics are incredibly dated, yet I enjoyed the game for it's story. Additionally, there is no way I will go back and play a crappy game that had revolutionary graphics for 1993. So graphics are not an impediment to a great game reagardless of age, and they do not impel future players to revisit an ordinary game with advanced graphics for the time.

 

Secondly, I disagree that reading is becoming pass

[Guest Fishboot]

And spoirits games are proioif oif this. Coiimpanies keep making the same spoirits game again and again except with better graphics, and peoiple keep buiying the new versioins. Spoirts games alsoi proive that moisit peoiple are brain dead becauise these guiys are soi uinintelligent that they doinit realize that theyre wasting their moiiney buiying a game they already have at hoiimie.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I think sports games get a bad rap; like fighting games, a lot of the reason that they can get away with making very minor gameplay changes is that the gameplay is so complex that very minor changes can lead to non-linear alterations in control and strategy, and also glitches can become feature-like (particularly because console games are not patched). And it's not like, for example, Madden Football even has better graphics between iterations in the same console generation.

 

Anyway, just saying that, while it's evil that publishers wish that all games were like sports games, sports games are not inherently evil or even distasteful.

[metadigital]

I've only ever enjoyed playing two sports games, and both were in the arcade: Super Punchout! and 10 Yard Fight (oh, okay, and Rallly X, if that counts). They all had strategies to discover and modify.

[EnderAndrew]

I really disagree on the knocks to sports games.

 

Scouting over 100 teams for new players and creating new rosters is a healthy chore in and of itself.

 

But each new NCAA Football or Madden game has plenty of new features. Seriously, I put more hours in my copy of NCAA Football each year than any other game. Most people knock the game because they don't know how much there is to do in the game.

[metadigital]

... Or don't like the sport enough to play it in a gimped form.

 

Really, you have to be quite dedicated to stare at a glorified spreadsheet. I can do it for Civ, but not for Sims or sports games.

[Calax]

I should point out that I saw a copy of BG2 collection on the shelves yesterday...

[Gromnir]

I should point out that I saw a copy of BG2 collection on the shelves yesterday...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

haven't seen bg2 on shelves for a while... but it seems like every few months atari finds some way to repackage nwn; platinum and deluxe and supergrooveykewl editions that seem almost identical. atari is squeezing every penny out of that title... am just not sure who is the people buying these editions.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[metadigital]

Maybe it's like the Pink Floyd phenomenon; people were buying the album and playing the tapes until they stripped all magnetic resonance from the plastic, then going out and buying replacement tapes, resulting in the albums being constantly in the charts for thousands of weeks.

[Gromnir]

Maybe it's like the Pink Floyd phenomenon; people were buying the album and playing the tapes until they stripped all magnetic resonance from the plastic, then going out and buying replacement tapes, resulting in the albums being constantly in the charts for thousands of weeks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

understandable... but why then all the new editions?

 

seems like they is trying to get folks who have working copies of nwn to buy the New & Improved edition... but the improved editions is little more than new packaging.

 

 

am just wondering who falls for such ridiculous marketing games.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[metadigital]

The vulnerable of society: the young, the elderly and the imbecilic ...

[Shadowstrider]

Maybe it's like the Pink Floyd phenomenon; people were buying the album and playing the tapes until they stripped all magnetic resonance from the plastic, then going out and buying replacement tapes, resulting in the albums being constantly in the charts for thousands of weeks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

understandable... but why then all the new editions?

 

seems like they is trying to get folks who have working copies of nwn to buy the New & Improved edition... but the improved editions is little more than new packaging.

 

 

am just wondering who falls for such ridiculous marketing games.

 

HA! Good Fun!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I bought a platinum edition when I lost some of my disks in a move. Other than that I dunno.

[EnderAndrew]

I didn't purchase it the first time and I'm glad I didn't. I couldn't make it past the first chapter of NWN. It was truly horrible.

 

I hear the expansions are better, but I wont suffer through ridiculously bad gameplay to get to them.

[metadigital]

You can play some of the community mods with just the original game, thereby bypassing the original game and still deriving some enjoyment from your purchase ...

[mkreku]

I don't think the gameplay of NHL 2002-2005 is very different in any of the versions. Sure, they keep toying about with defensive and offensive numbers in the background, making every version slightly more dependant on a good defense some years and a good offense in other years, but the core game (hockey!) is still basically the same. The small (or completely unnecessary) changes they make from year to year is certainly not worth the amount of money they demand every year for the new version!

 

The reason I still keep buying the new version year after year (yes, I am getting NHL 2006) is because they keep updating the rosters. They could easily make the game an empty framework, where you could download daily rosters (or changes to the roster) and the same game engine would work for years to come, but why would they? Idiots like me keep spending $50 every year on basically nothing anyhow.

[EnderAndrew]

The NHL games are the titles that I feel have the fewest features. EA just ships that one in rather than work on it.

 

However games like Tiger Woods, Madden or NCAA Football do change quite a bit from year to year.

[Darque]

I didn't purchase it the first time and I'm glad I didn't.  I couldn't make it past the first chapter of NWN.  It was truly horrible.

 

I hear the expansions are better, but I wont suffer through ridiculously bad gameplay to get to them.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

I thought the expansions were independent of the main game.

[EnderAndrew]

I assumed you needed your uber-character from the OC to take into the expansions though.