The last surviving apprentice.

[Darth Jebus]

I've actually been playing through KOTOR 1 again because it's been a while and I just felt like playing it after KOTOR 2, and also because it's just a great game.

 

And one thing I noticed in the opening crawl is that, when it introduces Malak, it describes him as the "...last surviving apprentice of the Dark Lord Revan...".

 

Last surviving apprentice? Just how many padawans did Revan have at one point? I mean, I don't know if this has already been discussed like two years ago when the game first came out or anything, but I just found that kind of interesting.

 

Did this mean that at one point during the Mandalorian Wars, Revan had several apprentices that served him? Or did this just mean that all of the Jedi that followed Revan to war were kind of his de facto servants?

 

You could seriously do a whole storyline just based on that one blurb from the opening crawl.

 

Any general thoughts on this? I mean, there could be another KOTOR right there.

[stormcloud777]

The Sith are a little bit of a paradox. While there is always a master and an apprentice, the Sith also likes to have armies of evil henchmen running around.

 

My guess is that everything starts with a horde of servants and usually ends up with the master and apprentice. If so, its not unreasonable that Revan had several top dark jedi aides and Malak was the one who superceded all of them.

[Pidesco]

Weren't Malak and Revan buddies before turning to the dark side?

As I understood it, Malak and Revan turned to the dark side at the same time and Revan became the master because (s)he was the stronger of the two. So Malak should've been the only apprentice Revan ever had.

[Darth Flatus]

Rule of two: 1 master and 1 apprentice was adopted waaaaay fter the events in KOTOR so its not impossible that Revan would have taken on multiple apprentices

[Darth_Radnor]

I was thinking about the same thing when I first played KOTOR, Jebus. I think that Revan did have maybe 3 or 4 apprentices at one point in time, but Malak killed them all.

[DeathScepter]

Being a Sith, you must prove yourself to the Master Sith.

 

 

Revan/Malak's Sith Relationship was modeled after the Exar Kun and Qel Doma's Sith Relationship.

 

 

Sith Lord is above Sith Master. Dark Lords are above Sith Lords.

 

 

There can be only two Dark Lords at any given time.

 

Being a Dark Lord Superior is like being the President of the United States of America.

 

Being a Dark Lord is being like the Vice President of the US.

 

The Sith Lords and Sith Masters are like Congress.

[Laozi]

guh?

[Darth Abomination]

don't compare Star Wars to the evil of American politicians, I'm sorry for those of you that are pro Bush but PLLLLLEASE HE'S A NAZI

[Drakron]

There is the Dark Lord of the Sith that rules the Sith, besides him there are Sith Lords that control their own Sith forces, be it force users or not.

 

The only issue is there can only be one Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

When Darth Bane became the only Sith survival he created the "rule-of-two" as they could only be two Sith at one time, a master and his apprendice.

[GhostofAnakin]

There is the Dark Lord of the Sith that rules the Sith, besides him there are Sith Lords that control their own Sith forces, be it force users or not.

 

The only issue is there can only be one Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

When Darth Bane became the only Sith survival he created the "rule-of-two" as they could only be two Sith at one time, a master and his apprendice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So was Revan considered a Sith Lord, or the Dark Lord of the Sith?

[jaguars4ever]

There is the Dark Lord of the Sith that rules the Sith, besides him there are Sith Lords that control their own Sith forces, be it force users or not.

 

The only issue is there can only be one Dark Lord of the Sith.

 

When Darth Bane became the only Sith survival he created the "rule-of-two" as they could only be two Sith at one time, a master and his apprendice.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

So was Revan considered a Sith Lord, or the Dark Lord of the Sith?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

THE Dark Lord of the Sith - though it's arguable that he wasn't *really* a Sith, but a master of both the Light and Dark side of the Force. :cool:

[DeathScepter]

All Dark Lords are Sith Lord.

 

Dark Lords are higher on the command chain.

 

 

No Bush is not a Nazi

[The Great Phantom]

The Master and Apprentice rule was created 1000 or so years before the Movies, which is why the Sith 'disappeared'...

 

This rule was made by Darth Bane, who believed the DS to be a limited resource...

 

The Sith 5000-6000 before the Movies were numerous. There were 20+ Lords, ruled by a Dark Lord. They lived in their Empire, etc. (I'm getting really tired of elaborating, and it's become a cliche... Look at the Ancient Sith topic I posted for more of an explanation if you're desparate).

 

Then, at Revan's time, he took the throne. He had many apprentices (I suppose all of the Dark Jedi at the time when he found M5 could be considered this), but they died at one point or another. I assume that Revan had an 'inner circle' that he converted first, and they were his apprentices. They then helped him out in converting others, and he gave them to his apprentices as underlings. But, knowing the Sith, power drove some or all mad. They killed eachother off, except for the 'strongest', Lord Malak. Just pointing this out, it may not be totally accurate.

 

Sorta Off Topic:

Malak and Revan were best friends. As an LS Revan (who had been steadily retreiving memories), can you imagine having the blood of your best friend staining your robes? I mean, as DS, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. But put yourself in LS Revan's robes (Male or Female, I suppose), and imagine the internal trauma you would have to go through. You brought him down the path in the first place, and were unable to redeem him. You killed him with your own hands, after all that you had been through. Wow, I'm surprised Revan didn't go into self-imposed exile right after the War. Instead he stayed around, and eventually left to find what he started in the first place...

 

Think about that... If you can empathize yourself enough... :ph34r:

[The Great Phantom]

Being a Sith, you must prove yourself to the Master Sith.

 

 

Revan/Malak's Sith Relationship was modeled after the Exar Kun and Qel Doma's Sith Relationship.

 

 

Sith Lord is above Sith Master.      Dark Lords are above Sith Lords.

 

 

There can be only two Dark Lords at any given time. 

 

Being a Dark Lord Superior is like being the President of the United States of America.

 

Being a Dark Lord is being like the Vice President of the US.

 

The Sith Lords and Sith Masters are like Congress.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Nope. Dark Lord is the LEADER. Darth is an egomaniacal term used by ANY Lord to signify superior might over the Sith. Only 1 Dark Lord can exist, with ANY number of Darths.

[stormcloud777]

Congress?

what do they vote on?

 

I think its more like Highlander. There can be only one.

[The Great Phantom]

Congress... They remind me of OPEC for some odd powerhungry reason...

[stormcloud777]

I disagree with there being only one Dark Lord, because Vader was called Dark Lord of the Sith in ANH and the Emperor was still his master.

 

imo, they all annoint themselves with grand titles (they could all be Dark Lords of the Sith), but the key element is there is always a master and an apprentice.

 

course, show me some proof and I'll change my mind.

[DeathScepter]

Superior Dark Lord of the Sith aka Emperor and Revan

 

 

Dark Lord of the Sith aka Vader Maul and Malak

 

 

Both levels of Darth is a Dark Lord

[Ulicus]

Then, at Revan's time, he took the throne. He had many apprentices (I suppose all of the Dark Jedi at the time when he found M5 could be considered this), but they died at one point or another. I assume that Revan had an 'inner circle' that he converted first, and they were his apprentices. They then helped him out in converting others, and he gave them to his apprentices as underlings. But, knowing the Sith, power drove some or all mad. They killed eachother off, except for the 'strongest', Lord Malak. Just pointing this out, it may not be totally accurate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, I always thought it was something like this.

 

In fact, at one point I theorised that your character in KotOR II was going to be a former member amongst this "inner circle" but alas it was not to be... I thought my idea was cooler than what they ending up doing... but that's because I'm arrogant and don't know anything.

 

It was a little "samey" with what happened in KotOR as well.

[Craigboy2]

I've actually been playing through KOTOR 1 again because it's been a while and I just felt like playing it after KOTOR 2, and also because it's just a great game.

 

And one thing I noticed in the opening crawl is that, when it introduces Malak, it describes him as the "...last surviving apprentice of the Dark Lord Revan...".

 

Last surviving apprentice?  Just how many padawans did Revan have at one point? I mean, I don't know if this has already been discussed like two years ago when the game first came out or anything, but I just found that kind of interesting.

 

Did this mean that at one point during the Mandalorian Wars, Revan had several apprentices that served him?  Or did this just mean that all of the Jedi that followed Revan to war were kind of his de facto servants?

 

You could seriously do a whole storyline just based on that one blurb from the opening crawl.

 

Any general thoughts on this?  I mean, there could be another KOTOR right there.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

They could have been the people you saw in the cave of corriben along with Malek and Bastila.

[Redmen]

Well whats the deal with the sith in kotor 2 the only sith you meet up to Malachor are Assasins and some troopers i would be nice if Sion and Nihilus would have different "special" sith units and not just the assasins...

 

Well a guy said that Bush is a Naci (well he is probably not) but isnt the idea of the "sith" based on the nacis? Darth Hitler vs. Jedi master Roosevelt and his padawan Eisenhower

[The Great Phantom]

Then, at Revan's time, he took the throne. He had many apprentices (I suppose all of the Dark Jedi at the time when he found M5 could be considered this), but they died at one point or another. I assume that Revan had an 'inner circle' that he converted first, and they were his apprentices. They then helped him out in converting others, and he gave them to his apprentices as underlings. But, knowing the Sith, power drove some or all mad. They killed eachother off, except for the 'strongest', Lord Malak. Just pointing this out, it may not be totally accurate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, I always thought it was something like this.

 

In fact, at one point I theorised that your character in KotOR II was going to be a former member amongst this "inner circle" but alas it was not to be... I thought my idea was cooler than what they ending up doing... but that's because I'm arrogant and don't know anything.

 

It was a little "samey" with what happened in KotOR as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not entirely accurate. Revan gave the Exile power because of their bonding abilities. I assume that the Exile WOULD have fallen and joined Revan, had they not severed themselves first... Hmm...

[Ulicus]

Then, at Revan's time, he took the throne. He had many apprentices (I suppose all of the Dark Jedi at the time when he found M5 could be considered this), but they died at one point or another. I assume that Revan had an 'inner circle' that he converted first, and they were his apprentices. They then helped him out in converting others, and he gave them to his apprentices as underlings. But, knowing the Sith, power drove some or all mad. They killed eachother off, except for the 'strongest', Lord Malak. Just pointing this out, it may not be totally accurate.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, I always thought it was something like this.

 

In fact, at one point I theorised that your character in KotOR II was going to be a former member amongst this "inner circle" but alas it was not to be... I thought my idea was cooler than what they ending up doing... but that's because I'm arrogant and don't know anything.

 

It was a little "samey" with what happened in KotOR as well.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Not entirely accurate. Revan gave the Exile power because of their bonding abilities. I assume that the Exile WOULD have fallen and joined Revan, had they not severed themselves first... Hmm...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

True.

 

I just meant to say that before KotOR II, I had assumed that not only were you a veteran of the Mandalorian wars, but also secretly a former Sith apprentice to Revan as well. (Who knew he was, but was simply hiding it from everyone else, including the person playing him)

 

But like I said- that was well too "samey" with what happened in KotOR I. I'd have found it cool though.

[The Great Phantom]

Ok, sorry. Besides, I meant to say 'not entirely inaccurate', but I'm making a module for NWN while I'm typing, so I'm a little rushed in what I type... :ph34r: