Just finished TSL

[213374U]

Forgive my ignorance, but what does the C in CRPG refer to?

 

Although I have not played Kotor2, as my computer won't run it, I find it peculiar that a certain group of players would not find a challenge in the game.

 

If there is a group of people who are experienced RPG-ers, and who need a bigger challenge, surely Obsidian could have created an additional difficulty setting, perhaps named 213374U? Especially when it is so simple.

Although I am not yet ready to condemn Obsidian for anything, I do feel that a broad difficulty spectrum (easy for the ff players, difficult for the experienced players) is important.

The 'C' stands for 'computer'. Simple, really. And despite what you might think from reading my posts, I liked K2 very much. I only wish that the bosses at least would be at the power level one expects from such a character. I don't consider myself a hardcore player (hell, I hate powergaming), but I like to play my games rather than just watch them.

 

And that color is killing me.

[GarethCarrots]

isnt it cinematic?

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Well, they obviously failed in that regard, since high stats are a major reason the game is easy. It also cheapens your starting abilities when you can double, or even triple, your original stats. They've gone to the extreme with this. My weakest attribute was 12 strength but it was still 25 by the end. The others were even better. No, I don't think the rules allow for that. You have almost no weaknesses.

 

Yes, but liches made those tactics necessary. You couldn't just wade in and hope for the best. And fighters had a real tough time once protection from weapons was cast. Only a mage could breach those defences which encouraged teamwork. Kotor2 requires no strategy. Everything goes down in 1 or 2 hits or dies before they even get into range.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thing is I dont recall the original game being difficult either and I dont believe that had extreme stats.

 

Like I said if I played it again I wouldnt upgrade anything which should sort most of that out.

 

I dont really consider that a tactic. I just consider it common sense. :cool:

 

Well I already said on another thread that a Jedi is like having a magic user cleric fighter without having to split the levels.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Small %? Come now. Anyone who has played any other CRPG short of a FF will find K2 ridiculously easy. If there is no significant difference between the different difficulty settings, why have them at all?

It. Makes. No. Sense.

 

But anyway, yours is still a weak argument at best. Implementing effective difficulty settings is real simple, and takes little effort and time compared to other development aspects. Proof of this are all the rebalance and hardcore mods that are already coming out. I have modded the game slightly to accomodate my personal tastes, and I have NO modding skills whatsoever, FFS!

 

Sloppiness is the word.

 

Yeah, that's why K2 plays so much like SW d20 right now. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Not bad, just mainstream which I see no reason to appologise for (w00t)

Bit of a generalisation that. Message boards are not the best place for honesty because people dont like their gaming skillz doubted.

 

Still there is no real need to do so when your primary market is already satisfied. You may not like it, but there is little reason to change anything about KOTOR when it sells like it does.

 

The only proof there is that its a waste of time to try to balance the game for such people because they are more interested in doing it themselves. I dare say people will be equally disatisfied with some of the mods as well.

 

Since I have long since given up on finding a challenging RPG as long as the combat dosnt bog the game down i'm happy.

 

Never played D20 SW never wanted to. Still have every piece of material WEG produced.

[213374U]

Well I already said on another thread that a Jedi is like having a magic user cleric fighter without having to split the levels.

As they have done it in K2, you are absolutely right. However in the d20 it's a different story. The Force drawing from VP can seriously hamper a Jedi's fighting capabilities if not used carefully. I've had my ass handed to me more than once for 'augmenting attributes' a bit too merrily.

But anyway, Jedi are supposed to be powerful. That's how they are in SW, after all. Still, powerful != invincible.

[213374U]

The only proof there is that its a waste of time to try to balance the game for such people because they are more interested in doing it themselves. I dare say people will be equally disatisfied with some of the mods as well.

Really, you should quit arguing just for the sake of it. Let's see why.

• If the game was balanced, there would be no place for rebalancing mods, let alone a need for them.
  
• Your reasoning can be applied to a half finished game, too. Hey, it's a waste to actually release a complete game. Proof of this are all the efforts to restore all the content that was cut/outright missing. Um, yeah.
  

Yes, I know. You can do things the right way, and you can do things the sloppy way. Facts prove that even if you choose the latter, that doesn't mean sales will be hurt. Nevertheless, they have a reason to try to do better. It's called customer satisfaction.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Really, you should quit arguing just for the sake of it. Let's see why.

• If the game was balanced, there would be no place for rebalancing mods, let alone a need for them.
   
  
• Your reasoning can be applied to a half finished game, too. Hey, people would be satisfied with half finished games. Proof of this are all the efforts to restore all the content that was cut. Um, yeah. 
  

Yes, I know. You can do things the right way, and you can do things the sloppy way. Facts prove that even if you choose the latter, that doesn't mean sales will be hurt. Nevertheless, they have a reason to try to do better. It's called customer satisfaction. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I'm not.

 

Thats a really big IF. Like I said the chance of balancing a game for me to find challenging and Mr first time gamer to find challenging WITHOUT warping the rules beyond recognition are close to zero. Adding extra HP's increasing damage etc dont work if your not getting hit.

 

Thats the reason you have mods. People have this vision of the game their way so they mod it. That applies even to complete and succeful games.Complete or not has nothing to do with it. It's just a case of the game not meeting someones "perfect fantasy" whether it not be hard enough, or they dont have enough points to meet their vision of uber or whatever.

 

I never liked the cut content anyway. Glad it went never want to see it again, or see Obsidian follow that particular forced storytelling route either.

 

Your never going to make everyone happy.

[213374U]

Thats a really big IF. Like I said the chance of balancing a game for me to find challenging and Mr first time gamer to find challenging WITHOUT warping the rules beyond recognition are close to zero. Adding extra HP's increasing damage etc dont work if your not getting hit.

No. That's what difficulty settings are for. See, a difficulty slider a la BG would be enough. I know it's impossible to make a game challenging for everyone, since a lot of people powergame and powergaming by definition takes advantage of loopholes in the rule set. But the majority of people aren't powergamers. Not by default, anyway.

 

However not balancing the game at all it's just like saying, hey, since we can't make a game that everyone will find challenging, let's just throw the balance out the window and make combat fully automated or enemies that die automatically after two rounds. After all, people will buy our game anyway.

No.

 

 

Thats the reason you have mods. People have this vision of the game their way so they mod it. That applies even to complete and succeful games.Complete or not has nothing to do with it. It's just a case of the game not meeting someones "perfect fantasy" whether it not be hard enough, or they dont have enough points to meet their vision of uber or whatever.

We are not talking about mods that add new content to the game. The mods we're talking about just intend to make the game as it was supposedly before the content cuts took place. That changes the argument completely.

Let's get back to my original twisting of your argument. If a game was released half finished and the other half was still there, waiting to be put back into the game, there would be modding efforts to do so. Yeah, some people's vision of the game would have it be actually complete. Crazy guys...

 

And tell you what, I don't really like very much the hardcore mods that are out there right now. They just buff up the enemies even more, making the game even more unbalanced and lame if you ask me.

 

You say that making the game a bit more challenging for everyone would be impossible without further deviation from the rules. That's false. It's precisely that deviation that has made the game a total pushover. If the game truly respected the d20 ruleset upon which it's based, it would have been much easier to implement effective difficulty settings.

 

 

Your never going to make everyone happy.

Agreed. But that doesn't mean you can't try to make the most people happy. They haven't tried to do so with the game balance in this game, and you know it.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

No. That's what difficulty settings are for. See, a difficulty slider a la BG would be enough. I know it's impossible to make a game challenging for everyone, since a lot of people powergame and powergaming by definition takes advantage of loopholes in the rule set. But the majority of people aren't powergamers. Not by default, anyway.

 

However not balancing the game at all it's just like saying, hey, since we can't make a game that everyone will find challenging, let's just throw the balance out the window and make combat fully automated or enemies that die automatically after two rounds. After all, people will buy our game anyway.

No.

 

We are not talking about mods that add new content to the game. The mods we're talking about just intend to make the game as it was supposedly before the content cuts took place. That changes the argument completely.

Let's get back to my original twisting of your argument. If a game was released half finished and the other half was still there, waiting to be put back into the game, there would be modding efforts to do so. Yeah, some people's vision of the game would have it be actually complete. Crazy guys...

 

And tell you what, I don't really like very much the hardcore mods that are out there right now. They just buff up the enemies even more, making the game even more unbalanced and lame if you ask me.

 

You say that making the game a bit more challenging for everyone would be impossible without further deviation from the rules. That's false. It's precisely that deviation that has made the game a total pushover. If the game truly respected the d20 ruleset upon which it's based, it would have been much easier to implement effective difficulty settings.

 

Agreed. But that doesn't mean you can't try to make the most people happy. They haven't tried to do so with the game balance in this game, and you know it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

In BG the difficulty slider didnt really work. The higher levels gave more Xp which meant you hit the cap that much faster (or once the cap was removed just leveled beyond the difficulty curve).

 

I can only qualify that from my own experiences. I cant say that the difficulties dont work because that would apply to every RPG I have played recently (perhaps with 4D star ocean an exception). They dont work for me that much is clear and has been for several years.

 

Thats really the only way you can tailor the game to your own desires and do it for everyone. Let the player dictate the "rules of the game". The bottom line their though is that most players couldnt handle that and would end up screwing it up anyway.

 

The fact you dont like most of the mods really just backs up that you cant please everyone and the people writing these things are doing it from their particular vision of the game difficulty where as a designer needs to take a much more macro view.

 

No I said making a game that I and someone who has never played a game before would both find challenging (without frustrating the new guy) would be a close to zero chance.

 

You would have to take deviations from the D20 system up with Bioware. They sowed that particular seed.

 

No as a matter of fact I dont know it at all , neither do you either for that matter.

We may know that we find the game easy and that other people with previous experience find the game easy but thats hardly a sweeping majority.

 

If I do actually come across an RPG with some modicum of difficulty I'll be sure to let you know.

[kefka]

Thing is I dont recall the original game being difficult either and I dont believe that had extreme stats.

Sure, the original was quite easy, but it did have several encounters that could be challenging. Even the Dark Jedi that Malak sends after you caused more problems than most enemies in Kotor2. The fact that they used force powers made a big difference. That adds a bit of uncertainty to battles since it's always possible you could fail a save and be incapacitated. Sadly, very few in K2 (except for bosses) ever use the force.

 

The extreme stats are an indulgence to satiate powergamers. They just like to see big numbers next to their character.

 

Like I said if I played it again I wouldnt upgrade anything which should sort most of that out.

Sounds like an artificial way of dealing with an easy game. Had it been balanced properly you could use all that kit and still have a challenge.

 

Well I already said on another thread that a Jedi is like having a magic user cleric fighter without having to split the levels.

Right. A Jedi is powerful, but you should have some limitations. The original did a better job because each class was more distinct. A Guardian felt like a fighter, while a Consular was your 'magic' user, but not as good in saber combat. They all had strengths and weaknesses. However, in K2 the classes are almost identical.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

Sure, the original was quite easy, but it did have several encounters that could be challenging. Even the Dark Jedi that Malak sends after you caused more problems than most enemies in Kotor2. The fact that they used force powers made a big difference. That adds a bit of uncertainty to battles since it's always possible you could fail a save and be incapacitated. Sadly, very few in K2 (except for bosses) ever use the force.

 

The extreme stats are an indulgence to satiate powergamers.  They just like to see big numbers next to their character. 

 

Sounds like an artificial way of dealing with an easy game. Had it been balanced properly you could use all that kit and still have a challenge.

 

Right. A Jedi is powerful, but you should have some limitations. The original did a better job because each class was more distinct. A Guardian felt like a fighter, while a Consular was your 'magic' user, but not as good in saber combat. They all had strengths and weaknesses. However, in K2 the classes are almost identical.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Depends if your a sentinel or not. Be assured you can still fail a save and get pummeled (at least from what I read on one of the Kreia threads).

 

Having the cap removed dosnt help. In KOTOR you got to level 15+ quite late in the game which is when all the really showy powers occur. In KOTOR II you were level 16 on your first planet.

 

No arguement there

 

True enough, but it's something I do with all games anyway. Using the base items should keep the game intact rather than doing artificial things to increase the difficulty. Big difference between a blaster hitting for 8-11 and one hitting for 18-51.

 

I've only really played KOTOR once. I did practice for KOTOR II with a consular and never really found much problem with combat. Possibly because everything has a really poor AC in KOTOR?

[213374U]

In BG the difficulty slider didnt really work. The higher levels gave more Xp which meant you hit the cap that much faster (or once the cap was removed just leveled beyond the difficulty curve).

It worked for BGII. Not ToB, but ToB screwed game balance big time, too. A perfect example of what happens when you listen to the whining crowds asking for more power instead of relying on common sense.

 

 

Thats really the only way you can tailor the game to your own desires and do it for everyone. Let the player dictate the "rules of the game". The bottom line their though is that most players couldnt handle that and would end up screwing it up anyway.

That is a good point. If the game actually let you configure your own difficulty level from an ingame interface, add on top of that some preconfigured templates, and tada, you have difficulties for everyone. Bottom line is, if people like me are already modding it, it couldn't have been so difficult to include many more skill levels. For some reason that wasn't a priority for them.

 

 

No I said making a game that I and someone who has never played a game before would both find challenging (without frustrating the new guy) would be a close to zero chance.

You are taking the extremes of the sample as an example, which renders the example invalid. Most gamers aren't as demanding as you when it comes to labeling a game 'challenging' but neither are total n00bs.

 

 

You would have to take deviations from the D20 system up with Bioware. They sowed that particular seed.

Um, no. While Bio adapted the original ruleset to suit their needs, they were smart enough not to mess with it past beyond the point where game balance would be blown to pieces. Removal of the level cap wasn't Bio's idea, for instance. Incidentally, the first game was more challenging than this one.

[NeverwinterKnight]

In BG the difficulty slider didnt really work. The higher levels gave more Xp which meant you hit the cap that much faster (or once the cap was removed just leveled beyond the difficulty curve).

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

are you serious?

 

i just started playing bg1 (have never gotten into it before) and set the difficulty slider to just under half-way. so if im reading what youre saying correct, the difficulty level is just the same as moving the slider all the way over to the right, except im missing out on more xp? <_<

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

It worked for BGII. Not ToB, but ToB screwed game balance big time, too. A perfect example of what happens when you listen to the whining crowds asking for more power instead of relying on common sense.

 

That is a good point. If the game actually let you configure your own difficulty level from an ingame interface, add on top of that some preconfigured templates, and tada, you have difficulties for everyone. Bottom line is, if people like me are already modding it, it couldn't have been so difficult to include many more skill levels. For some reason that wasn't a priority for them.

 

You are taking the extremes of the sample as an example, which renders the example invalid. Most gamers aren't as demanding as you when it comes to labeling a game 'challenging' but neither are total n00bs.

 

Um, no. While Bio adapted the original ruleset to suit their needs, they were smart enough not to mess with it past beyond the point where game balance would be blown to pieces. Removal of the level cap wasn't Bio's idea, for instance. Incidentally, the first game was more challenging than this one.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Thats what happens when you remove a level cap. As level caps are rather unpopular anyway this is just the result of that.

 

You seem to be missing out on the big picture here. Your modding the game for yourself presumably to some sort of "advanced" level. The designers didnt make the game for an advanced level. KOTOR is very much entry level as far as complexity goes. KOTOR is a mainstream product from top to toe.

 

For you maybe. I think this one just sticking to unmodified items would prove more interesting. Familiarity with the system is another reason this one might appear easier too. If I hadnt replayed KOTOR just before I got KOTOR II and never really been challenged I may have agreed.

[ShadowPaladin V1.0]

are you serious? 

 

i just started playing bg1 (have never gotten into it before) and set the difficulty slider to just under half-way.  so if im reading what youre saying correct, the difficulty level is just the same as moving the slider all the way over to the right, except im missing out on more xp?  <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Your more likely to die on the lower settings because you have less hp's for longer and it's all about odds in the end. While in theory the higher setting means you get hit more and for more damage, in practice I never found that to overcome the extra levels.

 

Higher setting will allow you to level faster, but you will also hit the cap before halfway which isnt that much fun when you think about it.

 

Just enjoy yourself. Mess around with the slider play an encounter, then play the same one with a different setting see which you like best.

[213374U]

You seem to be missing out on the big picture here. Your modding the game for yourself presumably to some sort of "advanced" level. The designers didnt make the game for an advanced level. KOTOR is very much entry level as far as complexity goes. KOTOR is a mainstream product from top to toe.

That's just you making assumptions. In fact I'm modding the game to put back in the level 20 cap, and adjust the XP-level table and PrC script to reflect that. That, so far. When I get some playtesting done I might get into some more serious rebalancing. That's not 'advanced' in any way, more like the opposite. You see, I'm not too hard to please. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

 

For you maybe. I think this one just sticking to unmodified items would prove more interesting. Familiarity with the system is another reason this one might appear easier too. If I hadnt replayed KOTOR just before I got KOTOR II and never really been challenged I may have agreed.

I stuck to unmodded items with my Guardian/Weapon master and still swept through the game without breaking a sweat. And there were a few fights in K1 where you could actually die if you charged blindly (the trandoshan encounter in Yavin, for instance). There is no such risk in K2, as things are.

But still, the item upgrades are part of the game, and as such, they should be taken into consideration as part of the game balance equation. Artificial gimping to make the game more challenging isn't any better than powergaming.

[Jedi_Master_Darkor]

I stuck to unmodded items with my Guardian/Weapon master and still swept through the game without breaking a sweat. And there were a few fights in K1 where you could actually die if you charged blindly (the trandoshan encounter in Yavin, for instance). There is no such risk in K2, as things are.

But still, the item upgrades are part of the game, and as such, they should be taken into consideration as part of the game balance equation. Artificial gimping to make the game more challenging isn't any better than powergaming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Yeah, I agree. There are 0 risks in K2. <_<

[Zach Morris]

So if it is up to me the player to "fix" the balance in a game then so be it. I gave up on holding back levels when I was at level 6 and on my way to my second flyable planet.

 

So I guess if it is up to me the gamer to make the game balanced do you guys know if there are any classes I can take in college that could help me out with modding and stuff like that?

[Glacius]

There is a problem when it comes to making the KOTOR games difficult, because you run the risk of making having force powers pointless. It'd make sense to be able to stun all your enemies. But, then that would make it too easy to kill them. On the other hand, why have stasis field if you CAN'T stun your enemies? Everyone will then just rely on saber combat and the consular class would be useless. Maybe boosting their stats alot and not their will saves would solve the problem. I'm not sure. I hope the modders can find a solution to this in their upcoming hardcored mods.

 

KOTOR 1 was indeed a very easy game as well. It was also very suceptible to powergaming. A character built for high wisdom could easily stasis field Dark Jedi Masters and even Malak.

[Malagance]

You seem to be missing out on the big picture here. Your modding the game for yourself presumably to some sort of "advanced" level. The designers didnt make the game for an advanced level. KOTOR is very much entry level as far as complexity goes. KOTOR is a mainstream product from top to toe.

That's just you making assumptions. In fact I'm modding the game to put back in the level 20 cap, and adjust the XP-level table and PrC script to reflect that. That, so far. When I get some playtesting done I might get into some more serious rebalancing. That's not 'advanced' in any way, more like the opposite. You see, I'm not too hard to please. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

 

For you maybe. I think this one just sticking to unmodified items would prove more interesting. Familiarity with the system is another reason this one might appear easier too. If I hadnt replayed KOTOR just before I got KOTOR II and never really been challenged I may have agreed.

I stuck to unmodded items with my Guardian/Weapon master and still swept through the game without breaking a sweat. And there were a few fights in K1 where you could actually die if you charged blindly (the trandoshan encounter in Yavin, for instance). There is no such risk in K2, as things are.

But still, the item upgrades are part of the game, and as such, they should be taken into consideration as part of the game balance equation. Artificial gimping to make the game more challenging isn't any better than powergaming.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

I've finally read this thread, and I've gotta side with l337 on this issue. I want to think, not click. I recently sat down and reinstalled BG2 after beating KOTOR2 three times, and realizing that I could take on dark jedi and sith lords unarmed on the highest difficulty, without using anything other than force speed.

 

I pretty much vowed that I wanted to play a hard game again. So I installed BG2 and Throne of Bhaal and downloaded all of the David Gaider content to buff up the five in ToB. Now that I'm trudging through SoA, I have to say, it's refreshing to think again. My character is a no-brains Paladin, but I still have to think about positioning and area effect spells from my casters as well as formations to block enemy movements, etc.

 

Yeah, I've died a few times. And I like it. The enemies aren't grotesquely overpowered, they just have some excellent scripting.

 

Basically I wish the difficulty slider in some way affected scripting rather than just raw stats and damage. I'm a thinker. I usually play mages, but in KOTOR2, the Consular was a joke. You don't need to be a thinker to play one, you just need to find force storm's icon and click on it repeatedly until the problem goes away.

 

I'm not going to touch SWD20's system for Jedi and force users. They're still powerful, but yes, the Vitality Point loss for using powers means that you're at least a little more judicious than entering a room and using force lightning. Generally this is because force lightning is comparatively weak to a lightsaber, which I honestly believe should be the case. The emperor fried Luke several times with force lightning, but a single lightsaber swing would have killed him, this is most definitely not the case in KOTOR2.

 

BTW, l337, if you come across a promising mod or want someone to playtest your difficulty mods or whatever, contact me. I'd be grateful for a challenge.

[chibajoe]

I've finally read this thread, and I've gotta side with l337 on this issue. I want to think, not click. I recently sat down and reinstalled BG2 after beating KOTOR2 three times, and realizing that I could take on dark jedi and sith lords unarmed on the highest difficulty, without using anything other than force speed.

 

I pretty much vowed that I wanted to play a hard game again. So I installed BG2 and Throne of Bhaal and downloaded all of the David Gaider content to buff up the five in ToB. Now that I'm trudging through SoA, I have to say, it's refreshing to think again. My character is a no-brains Paladin, but I still have to think about positioning and area effect spells from my casters as well as formations to block enemy movements, etc.

 

Yeah, I've died a few times. And I like it. The enemies aren't grotesquely overpowered, they just have some excellent scripting.

 

Basically I wish the difficulty slider in some way affected scripting rather than just raw stats and damage. I'm a thinker. I usually play mages, but in KOTOR2, the Consular was a joke. You don't need to be a thinker to play one, you just need to find force storm's icon and click on it repeatedly until the problem goes away.

 

I'm not going to touch SWD20's system for Jedi and force users. They're still powerful, but yes, the Vitality Point loss for using powers means that you're at least a little more judicious than entering a room and using force lightning. Generally this is because force lightning is comparatively weak to a lightsaber, which I honestly believe should be the case. The emperor fried Luke several times with force lightning, but a single lightsaber swing would have killed him, this is most definitely not the case in KOTOR2.

 

BTW, l337, if you come across a promising mod or want someone to playtest your difficulty mods or whatever, contact me. I'd be grateful for a challenge.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Actually, I've been playing around (in game and with the files) with both Aurora's mods and the Hardcore mod, both seperately and in combination. Beancounter's Hardcore mod only changes the enemy level and ai, whereas Aurora's stuff does some rebalancing of the PC classes as well. The mods definitely make the game more challenging, especially if both are installed, but the curve is pretty brutal. I'm going to try to tweak some of Aurora's files, add a modified autobalance.2da file to deal with scaling issues, and recompile the Hardcore mod to enable the enhanced enemy ai and see where that leads. I'm not ready to post anything yet, but if anybody wants to be a guinea pig shoot me a PM :D.

[Janson]

My biggest problem is that I haven't needed to use strategy once in the game. No pre-planning or innovative ways to defeat enemies. Just buff, thrown force powers, and mow down with your saber. Rinse and repeat.

 

BGII had a good deal of strategy, especially against Firkraag and enemies like lichs. You needed to use your whole party, and be using a huge amount of magic powers effectively and intelligently. At the moment the Knights games are in danger of becoming too RPG-lite. There is no reason why it can't reach levels of strategy similar to BGII and maintain the Star Wars feel.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Except even Kangaxx the demi-lich can be beaten in just one round if your character weilds the Mace of Disruption. (I did this only last night...character level 12; one hit - bam!) And with enough traps and lightning wands, Firkraag goes down pretty quickly

 

So I do think that a game is as difficult as you make it.

 

By the way, I've watched people who aren't so experienced with RPGs, but are gamers, try to play KotOR2, and you know what? They had tremendous difficulty in some areas.

 

Also, I'm not sure how you are all managing it, but I completed every quest I could find, and by the end I was only level 27/28, with a few attributes maxed past 30 - but not past 40. As a Guardian, killing enemies was easy, but I missed out on a lot of very cool conversations.

 

Playing as a Sentinel, I'm now managing to hit things...on my third planet. Getting through Telos/Atris' academy was quite tough in places because I had less hit points than a Guardian and less force powers than a Consular - beating the assassin droids largely consisted of me running away and using stun droid from a distance. Yes, it's still not hugely difficult, but I have had at least to explore different possibilities this time through.

[KungFuFerret]

You could try Neverwinter Nights.  It's more challenging than KOTOR atleast.

 

Ironically, I found HotU far easier then KOTOR 2.

 

Fighter/Weaponsmaster using a great axe. By end game, everything's dying in one hit. And the final showdown with Mephistopheles was a cakewalk. I didn't max out criticals completely, but I did boost my saving throws with a lot of feats and patterned my character after my experiences from a few online persistant worlds, which included not having to rely on sleeping constantly to maintain my damage (like a smite paladin would have) as well as very high saves so not much would phase me.

 

I found NWN 1 more difficult. Trying to kill a dragon as a finesse rogue wasn't easy.

 

Fortunately, or unfortunately, you can't adjust your lightsaber and skills in KOTOR to get such an insanely low critical threat range, otherwise you wouldn't even need special combat feats.

 

 

The real difference that I see with KOTOR 2's AI is, it doesn't use special items and abilities as often as it did in KOTOR 1. Opponents don't use shields or grenades as much. And they don't use force powers as much. But that's easily fixable by modders.

 

As for combat, I made a scout/guardian in KOTOR 1 similar to my NWN char, and can easily kill late game NPCs with a single attack. I've only been using a single lightsaber with critical strike to boot. I just wanted to see if it could be done, and it can.

 

Really what made KOTOR 1 difficult imo, were all the blaster NPCs throwing plasma grenades at you, which was fairly cheesy imo. As a Sentinel, the force using opponents weren't all that much different then they are in KOTOR 2. Stasis worked far more reliably in 1 then in 2, making the game extremely easy. The use of grenades also could make combat far easier then KOTOR 2. I can think of several situations where I used them in KOTOR 1 and cleared a room far faster then Force Storm can in KOTOR 2.

 

The main difficulty at the end was only because of NPCs respawning. Again, easily fixed by modders. Malak dropped just as quick, or quicker then Kreia if you triggered off the event before you fought him. Force Immunity. Force Speed. Force Breach on Malak. Stun on Malak. Thwap, thwap, thwap. End dialog and credits. Next game please.

 

 

I just finished the game with my Sith Lord, using mostly Force Kill, Insanity and Critical Strike. My most memorable moment was using Force Kill on

Revan

, and dropping him like a bad habit. Watching him flail about and twitch was $$$. I found his lack of faith.... disturbing.

 

The only one I couldn't get it to work on was

Kreia (but it did work on her lightsabers.)

But Force Crush worked.

 

 

As for unarmed combat, mod out all the new unarmed feats, then try to play it that way. THEN compare it to KOTOR 1. Making a comparison when one game has them, and the other doesn't is quite unfair.

 

Play the game as a grey jedi, without having a prestige class. You'll find it's quite a bit more difficult.

 

If you're looking for a hard rpg, play Fallout 2 using Finesse and see how far you can get. I don't advise it if you have a frail ego or get frustrated very easily.

[chibajoe]

Except even Kangaxx the demi-lich can be beaten in just one round if your character weilds the Mace of Disruption. (I did this only last night...character level 12; one hit - bam!) And with enough traps and lightning wands, Firkraag goes down pretty quickly

 

So I do think that a game is as difficult as you make it.

 

By the way, I've watched people who aren't so experienced with RPGs, but are gamers,  try to play KotOR2, and you know what? They had tremendous difficulty in some areas.

 

Also, I'm not sure how you are all managing it, but I completed every quest I could find, and by the end I was only level 27/28, with a few attributes maxed past 30 - but not past 40. As a Guardian, killing enemies was easy, but I missed out on a lot of very cool conversations.

 

Playing as a Sentinel, I'm now managing to hit things...on my third planet. Getting through Telos/Atris' academy was quite tough in places because I had less hit points than a Guardian and less force powers than a Consular - beating the assassin droids largely consisted of me running away and using stun droid from a distance. Yes, it's still not hugely difficult, but I have had at least to explore different possibilities this time through.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Have you explored all the dialog trees? There's at least 15-20k of experience tucked in among the various conversations there, without using any of the exploits.

Also, recover mines and unlock doors for some extra exp.

I think I was lv31 on my first playthrough as a Consular/Jedi Master.

[Colrom]

I prefer the game to be easy enough that I don't die - or at least don't die too often.

 

After all, if I die in an RPG that should be the end and I should have to restart with a new character and I hate doing that alot.

 

If you like to die alot and be reborn alot the moment before your death there are ways to make that more likely - as folks have said.