Malagance

You present a convincing argument. :D

Let your weary and grief-stricken heart be laid to rest, fellow worshipper. She cannot be romanced. It is indeed a sad thing, nay, a TERRIBLE thing. A SIN AGAINST HUMANITY. You have a few options you can pursue: 1.) Turn to a life of fast drugs, easy women, hard liquor and terrible crimes. 2.) Forsake your meaningless life and beliefs, then join the CHURCH OF MIRA and help ease the pains of others who are just now coming to the same realization that you have. 3.) Pester the Mod community endlessly. (May be combined with Church Membership!) 4.) Construct a Mira shrine in your room and burn incense while contemplating the futility of existence without a Mira romance option. (May be combined with Church Membership!) 5.) Take a picture of #4 and post it here so that we can collectively contemplate the futility of existence without a Mira romance option. 6.) Find some black robes and a Japanese Kabuki mask. Turn to the dark side of the force and allow your rage to fuel force techniques enabling you to devour the essence of entire planets. Make them understand your pain. 7.) Get out a little more and find a real girl. (I guarantee that this is possible! And can be combined with Church Membership!) 8.) Collapse to the ground and assume the fetal position, screaming for Mira to come and save you. Best results are obtained if this is done along the side of a busy street. (May -NOT- be combined with Church Membership. Even we have standards, you weirdo.) 9.) Move to Switzerland. Life is just better there. (May be combined with Church Membership!) 10.) Start a conspiracy theory involving 3 major world leaders, Chris Avellone, 12 dying orphans, 1 earth-threatening disease, a collective sum of no fewer than 150 billion dollars, and the lack of a Mira Romance. (May be combined with Church Membership!)

You, good sir, deserve an applause. I, Malagance, as self-appointed High Priest of the Church of Mira, feel that you have done the community a great service by bringing us these *HAWT* pictures of the lovely redhead. Three cheers for Eisu! And now a humble blessing for the noble deliverer of Mira Fanart: May your threads be protected from flamewars. May your internet connection be protected from catastrophic events. May your computer and scanner be blessed with long life and protection from freak electrical storms. Finally, may the hands through which you deliver this gorgeous Mira fanart be preserved from being crushed in a vice or being sliced off by lustful pirate wenches. AMEN to THAT. (In other words, Kudos. I dig your art and I dig Mira, so when these two cross, there is much celebration on my part. WHEE!)

-------------- "Silence dog, you were born for no other purpose but to die by my hand." -Jon Irenicus, Baldur's Gate II -------------- I didn't question why Mira was with me, but now that you bring it up, it is quite intriguing that this was never further explained. As for you, Alaric, considering your "near-perfect memory" (as troublesome as I'm sure it is) I'm surprised that you didn't put it to better use when constructing your argument... I operated under the impression that Jedi didn't hate anyone. You know, the whole 'path to the dark side' thing is a pretty convincing reason to stay away from that. And any Jedi who considers these individuals "beneath" them is suffering from arrogance, again, leading to the dark side. Consider spending more time double-checking the logic behind your theories instead of bragging about how your alleged mastery of the martial arts and ki would allow you to hunt better than a wookiee. Just a thought. My Personal Theory: Someone hired Mira to either take you in or protect you, not sure if a definite conclusion can be drawn on who hired her or for what purpose. Once she was near you, the force bond kicked in. Perhaps she only tosses out the "bounty" excuse as a token attempt at feigning independence from your increasingly dramatic effect on her life rather than as a legitimate reason/motivation for staying with you. This is the only way I can think to explain it. As you can see, even so, it is still filled with too many holes to carry much water.

She was weak. Emotionally and psychologically that is. I, in the real world, am not attracted to those who are too weak to be able to stand on their own two feet. I don't like the clingy types that can never let go and live in the past. Those that fear everything, and can't even be clingy in a loyal way (Hi, I'm here to kill you, but now I will serve you!). Visas disgusted me. At the same time, I know that there are many who would find such attributes attractive, but I don't need someone clinging to me to remind myself that I am strong. I'm secure enough to know this, thus I am more attracted to those that try to challenge this security and strength. Not sure if that makes any sense, but I think it boils down to me preferring "Firey" over "Submissive" and not wanting a slave, but an equal.

I don't need easily manipulated DS toadies! I need hotties! -Votes for Mira- And yes, I am well aware that Mira has the staying power of a 12-year old girl in Combat. That's part of the fun!

As usual, I stand by the firey lil' redhead, Mira. I proudly defend her digital honor against the numerous fiends that would vote for -VISAS- *grumble* Great, and Bastila's in this one too. I predict Mira will settle in at 3rd place in this one. *sniffle*

Well, Global. I'm glad you're here to tell me these things, what would I do without your keen insights into the blatantly obvious? First of all, language is irrelevant to the discussion. Let's attack ideas, not grammar and spelling. Second, what were you hoping to prove by your post? So far you seem to be fulfilling the role of irritant, but little else. The fact of the matter is that these kinds of comments have been fielded time and again on this board. This may be difficult to grasp, but: Hate to break it to you, Copernicus, but you aren't the first person to unveil this great discovery of "Obsidian totally sucks". While your mastery of posting hyperlinks is impressive, the link leads to another opinion that happens to coincide with your own. Great. Now that there are two people who hate something, you can qualify as "free thinkers". If you get a third person, maybe you can start your own political party. My point is that people here have their opinions already, and that, generally speaking, those opinions have remained static. Unchanging. Despite the best efforts of "fanboys" and "haters". My personal opinion is that KOTOR2 was an above average game, not particularly good, but not particularly bad either. I'm not going to try and convince you, or anyone else, to subscribe to this view though.

Can I use this quote? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I was going to ask the same thing.

Yet here you are, getting mad about someone getting mad. Fascinating. Mind you, I don't have anything against you, given that you appear to be reasonably intelligent and are firey enough to earn my respect. But consider the logic of your actions. At first I dismissed your post as a mindless flame but then I looked at it more carefully and realized that there is a pretty valid point that you're trying to make. Which is: "Why be so angry about this?" Which is a decent question, but your post itself was rather angry in appearance. I don't have anything against angry posts, but this kind of defeats the point, no? Just an observation.

For me #1 will always be BG II, David Warner as Irenicus was awesome. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> "You are but a gnat compared to my power!" <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Holy crap yes. David Warner (Irenicus in BG2 and, oddly enough, Chancellor Gorkon in Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered country) and Kevin Richardson (Sarevok in BG Series, Jolee in KOTOR1) "You will suffer... you will ALL suffer!" -Irenicus "And now *I* return the favor!" -Fighting Sarevok again in hell in BG2 after you've killed him in BG1... Those are my two favorite voice actors of all time. Hands down. No contest... Check please. Sorry for being off topic. I'm revising my list: Mira, Mandalore, and Kreia are my current faves. Mira's voice and character really grew on me by my third time through the game. Visas's voice is painful for me to listen to... I don't know how else to put it. It just... makes me cringe. Goto's is lifeless.

Who on earth are you referring to?

I am surrounded by illiterate fools who are not only incapable of reading the original post, but incapable of understanding that they should READ the first post. But by all means, post your inconsequential, off topic fantasy names. I swear I'm interested in reading your numerous, varied, and usually BLATANT RIPOFF names. They're cool!1! And by "cool" I mean (for the most part) completely uncool. I have no problem with posting the results from a formula, but I have no desire to read the words of morons that do otherwise, and who are under the (mistaken) impression that anyone gives a **** about anything they say. Perhaps you actually read the initial post, but fancy yourself to be a cunning fox, "Ooh. I'll post the name that I used in my game. After all, everyone will believe that I came up with Solo or Katarn by utilizing this formula! I'm a bloody genius! No one will see through my pitifully transparent and BORING ruse!" Oh. And Osama Bin-Laden. Yeah. You're cute, in a "I'm an insensitive worm who is incapable of processing the long-term consequences of my 'hilarious' comments" sort of way. But by all means. Please favor me with more of your pearls of wisdom! I swear I care about your completely ignorant posts! Seriously! I'm so excited to read your names that you felt the need to post on this thread while rudely disregarding the original poster! So excited that I could hang myself. *sighs* ... After that bit, I shall post the name I came up with from the formula... Al-Vasper Migre.. I'd probably switch around the Prefix to come up with Vasper Al-Migre, which is tolerable, but my state of birth combined with my first name creates some pretty fugly last names.

Favorites: Mira (That's one FINE polygon-constructed Bounty Hunter. She's feisty. Rawr!) Least Favorites: Handmaiden (The hair) and Visas (The Pitifully Subservient Personality)

-cough- Or against anything, for that matter.

Wow. I just wrote a long reply to this, only to have it sucked into the void by the board gnomes. I may cry. Here's the short version: You don't use "good" as a terminal adjective. I couldn't begin to say why, but you don't. Also, "good" and "well" aren't really interchangeable. To say "That's a good dog" is different from saying "That's a well dog." And if you say "That's a well-done dog," you get yet another meaning. "He walks good" is incorrect, unless you're doing a deliberate dialect. Southern English speakers could get away with it, for example. But they certainly wouldn't say it that way if they were trying to be formal or proper. "He walks well" would be much much much more correct. That's one of the (uncountable) problems in English -- a lot of times the correctness is a matter of degree. Two phrasings can be correct, but one will be more correct. Some grammar nazis try to make it out that there is One True Grammar to English, but it just isn't so. Rather, there are varying degrees of Good Taste and Bad Taste English. To go back to one of the earliest examples, if you say "Kreia is stronger than I," you're spot-on perfect gramatically, but you sound awkward. It's correct in the strictest sense, but, if I may be so bold, it's in bad taste. "Kreia is stronger than me" is gramatically wrong, but it sounds much more natural to a native speaker, so it's in much better taste, and therefore, since English is defined more by usage than by rules, it's more correct. Because it's in better taste. When my first post got swallowed, I swore I wouldn't write it all again. Instead I've written more. Argh! This is what happens when a hot grammar/RPG discussion lights up the boards! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The ONE GRAMMAR TO RULE THEM ALL! English teachers are expected to be highly critical of grammar in essays and the like, but the people that get to me are those who have the audacity to correct extraordinarily minor grammatical errors in another's speech, interrupting them in order to do so. This doesn't happen to me, but I have seen it occur with others and I can't help but sneer. If you feel the need to correct the speech of another to an obnoxious degree, then you are feebly clinging to the archaic remnants of an illogical language design spawned hundreds of years ago by people who thought that bathing was bad. You do bathe, don't you? I suppose I walk a very fine line. I have little tolerance for the misguided imbeciles who feel that punctuation and capitalization are optional. Believe me, fool, of all the easily discardable elements of the english language, you have picked poor ones to omit. Your instant messenger generation "grammar" will become a textbook example of laziness and idiocy... In conclusion, spoken grammar is important, but particularly minor errors that sound awkward when corrected should remain uncorrected, in my opinion, not only for the sake of preventing awkward moments, but just out of respect for the speaker. Written language and grammar is very important and I curse teenagers for being stupid. Darn kids.

I've heard that the default setting for Revan, if the player were to choose, "I don't know," at anytime while talking to Atton about him/her, was actually that Revan was female and had fallen to the Dark Side. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> 90% sure it defaults LS male, but I can't verify this atm, as I'm at work. Regardless, what it defaults to should hardly make a difference. Just as I am rather annoyed by "Revan should totally be a male and stuff" threads, these threads are little better. Revan is completely different for different people. For me, Revan is a Male Jedi Consular. It's pointless to really debate what Revan in the cutscenes was, because the designers clearly intended for Revan to be whatever you wanted, hence the whole character creation/gender selection phase at the beginning of the game. Still though, don't misinterpret this for trolling. I'd be little better than those who I criticize if I went around getting pissed at people for their viewpoints on this matter. Just my personal view. So as to contribute somewhat to the thread: Carth annoyed me in KOTOR1. After I finished KOTOR2, however, I was watching a friend go through KOTOR1 and he was using Carth and he started to grow on me. I feel that Bastila, however, plays an equally important role. Regardless, your viewpoints on the matter will be inherently tilted towards one or the other based off of your Gender, I would imagine.

Yeah, and where's Azkul?

This discussion is pointless. Utterly and completely pointless. Warning: Entering Rant Mode Nuke, your argument technique is weak and amateurish at best. When others find fault with your logic, you ignore it completely and keep driving home a point that doesn't exist. Go back through the posts, read what people are actually writing and DEFEND YOURSELF instead of repeating the same pathetic mewlings about continuity. Your credibility is vastly undermined when you state a blatant mistruth as pointed out by ALANC9 a few pages back regarding Canderous never stating that he descended in his wardroid. Perhaps you feel that you can claim to preach the gospel of continuity to us "unenlightend" masses. No. This is a pitifully transparent ego trip just for Dath Nuke. Chris Avellone, developer of the game, personally comes to this post and responds to queries. You proceed to personally bash the guy, citing Attitude Problems and that he doesn't know what he's talking about. When you lower yourself to that level, you have truly failed to prove anything other than your own ineptitude. Don't even think of labelling me a fanboy for "defending" a developer, if you do, I'll let your post count speak for itself. Don't try to refer people to other forums to cover your pathetic arguments. I don't care if I'd learn something of continuity on another forum. We are on -this- forum. If you can't prove something to me here, then clearly I'd only be wasting my time by going there, assuming you are a typical specimen of the debaters on these other forums. I personally don't care about the Basilisk War Droid as seen in the game. I don't care what others think about the subject either. What I do care about is when you bash Chris Avellone. My reasons? Developer interaction on this board is already close to nonexistent, and posts like yours do nothing but DISCOURAGE further interaction. I know this might come as a startling revelation, Spock, but here I go: There are those on this board who have numerous gameplay issues and questions that they'd like to discuss with the developers that don't involve getting your panties in a knot over fictitious space robots seen in a Star Wars comic book. Perhaps your shortsided and blandly predictable postings crippled your awareness of this fact, or perhaps your ego was too big to see that citing developers' attitude problems and cluelessness was disadvantageous for all involved? I'm sure that it's impossible for me to reach one as stubbornly prideful as you, but I'll be damned if I didn't try.

Aimo, I'm a big fan of your work, ever since Eji referred me to your site. Excellent job, looks like authentic manga that I would've been able to find in Tokyo when I was there. And that's a compliment.

I have to admit that I voted Canderous simply because nobody really draws the poor guy. I think Aimo drew Mandalore once, but other than that, I don't think I've seen much Mandalore/Canderous fanart. Oh, and of course I voted this way because Canderous has a powerful combination of Honor, Dignity, Loyalty, and Pride. At the same time he controls his pride and is able to swallow it when need be, I.E. the many dialogues between himself and Revan where you learn that he had great respect for Revan's tactical prowess, etc. Finally, Canderous does have a very strong will. It may not be as readily apparent as Carth or Atton, but Canderous won't back down from something that he believes in, no matter the odds. He's just not quite as brash as the other two. I'm a guy, of course, so my perspectives are skewed somewhat, but I keep an open mind on these things. You'd think that since I dig Mira that I'd be all about Atton, but the difference is that Atton seems like he has a few screws loose in the head. Honorable Mentions: Carth and Kavar. I respect Kavar for pretty much the same reasons as Canderous, furthermore he's actually a good person and very likeable, unfortunately, as he is a non-party NPC, you can't expect the same depth of character as you could get with Canderous or Carth. Carth is a great guy and in the real world I definitely would have no problem kicking it with him and my friends, but if it came down to choosing between him and Canderous as far as romantic interests, it just doesn't seem like Carth really... has it all together. Perhaps it's that vulnerability or whatnot that attracts some women to him, I'm not sure, I just know that I don't particularly appreciate obvious weakness in a potential relationship. Again, Carth's cool and I use him in most of my KOTOR1 parties, just not someone who I'd spend my life with, if I were a girl. Though I can certainly understand if 98% of the female audience were unable to really latch onto Canderous because his personality isn't that of a "romantic" and he seems to be fascinated more by warfare and strength. I blame the devs for not putting in a Canderous romance, as then I'm sure he'd probably be a bit more able to contend with Atton and Carth. And yes. I'm incredibly secure to be posting my honest thoughts on a thread about the most desirable male characters, I know. Mira forever!

I find it interesting that, from what I can gather, most or all of Mandalore's votes came from guys (One being from me). I suppose it's a bit different than putting his real identity on the poll. Then people might vote for him more on the grounds of "I know what he looks like". Regardless, it's just interesting to see how guys (If they were females or Homosexuals, etc.) view Mandalore as attractive. Presumably because of his macho factor. I'm secure enough in my masculinity to say that it's his confidence and non-psychotic personality that drives it home for me. Carth isn't on this poll, though if he were, he'd get my vote. Beyond that, Atton is just a little too twisted and Disciple a little too "not there", but Mandalore has the aforementioned attributes. I would imagine, from a girl's perspective, that I'd probably feel safest chilling with Mandalore, because he's the leader of a warrior race and he has his pride and his honor. Those are all attributes which are rare to find in the same man, furthermore, Mandalore, if you know of his history, is extremely loyal. His personality may be bland, but this isn't something that can really be gauged, as he didn't have a very complete character. Sure Atton may be cute, but let's look beyond the superficial. The guy is unstable and frankly he doesn't exactly have a very trustworthy track record. Disciple is just plain artificial in his appearance and mannerisms.

Oooh, I had forgotten 'bout good ol' force body: I revise my earlier statement: Force Body is terrible, and therefore gets my vote for the worst force power.

Force deflect/redirection or whatever is useful, IMO, even if it's only because you're playing a very defensive character and want the +3 bonus to all deflection rolls from the second level of that power. Force camo isn't that useful, perhaps, but as you level up as an assassin/watchman, it also provides you increasing bonuses to your stealth skill, which is significantly better than just being able to stealth w/o a belt. I've never bothered getting revitalize, but it seems potentially useful. However beast trick, I agree, was pretty useless, though I don't think it counts because you do get it for free, same with breath control. Most useless power that you have to select that doesn't advance automatically as a result of being a class-related power... (Otherwise I'd say crush opposition just isn't worth the round it takes to use) would be those powers that dispel force buffs. They're of questionable value in KOTOR1, but in KOTOR2, they have no apparent use whatsoever. Any forcers that I ran into never used a buff that made a difference in combat.