stop_him Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 i found some stuff where atton tries to kill bao-dur <{POST_SNAPBACK}> What?! If that's really the truth, somebody's got to post it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camicortes Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 HK mocking Carth and Bastila! God why was this cut??? That has to be the most hilarious thing I've ever heard that tin can say in both games!!! LOL. God I wish they'd put that in again. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Actually that wasn't cut - it's very much in the game, providing you have enough influence with HK. I believe camicortes just added it to keep in the spirit of this thread and the rest of his post. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, just added it to push up some smiles! And by the way, HER post, not his... i'm a girl! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedipodo Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I think that LA decided to cut the ending, because they got cold feet. Imagine all of the beta testers crying... They feared that too many (happy end spoiled) players would turn into emotional wreckages. "Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AngryTarsier Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 assuming all would be sad ending but if the ending was left in and the idea that there is a happy ending.. I'd play that game until I get it.. good replay value.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kitty518233 Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 they feared that too many (happy end spoiled) players would turn into emotional wreckages Isnt that the whole point of a storyline? to make the audience feel for the characters and to make the audience emotional in what ever way anger ? fear? happiness? sadness? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedipodo Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 they feared that too many (happy end spoiled) players would turn into emotional wreckages Isnt that the whole point of a storyline? to make the audience feel for the characters and to make the audience emotional in what ever way anger ? fear? happiness? sadness? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Yes, of course. You don't have to tell that to *me*. But unfortunately most producers prefer not to take any risks... "Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 I think that LA decided to cut the ending, because they got cold feet. Imagine all of the beta testers crying... They feared that too many (happy end spoiled) players would turn into emotional wreckages. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If that was the reason, then Lucasarts should pull out of the entertainment business. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedipodo Posted February 20, 2005 Share Posted February 20, 2005 *agrees* "Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greylord Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I think that LA decided to cut the ending, because they got cold feet. Imagine all of the beta testers crying... They feared that too many (happy end spoiled) players would turn into emotional wreckages. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If that was the reason, then Lucasarts should pull out of the entertainment business. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> sarcasm on Wow, what a great idea, if they had only done that three years ago there would have never been a KotoR 1 or 2, and no whiny players to complain about it. What an excellent suggestion. sarcasm off I for one like happy endings, if they had a sad ending like that...or some of the ones which look to have been cut, I can tell you there would have been a MASSIVE outcry on the forums. I've seen it before in other games and it literally killed some more than what I imagine KotoR 2 will suffer from NOT having the darker endings. Just imagine a Star Wars film where Luke, Han, Leia, Chewbacca, C-3PO, Artoo, and Lando all die...I'm certain everyone would love that film because it just brought out all their emotions...NOT. In truth, some of the people wanted their characters to die...but Lucas didn't have it...because that's missing out on his vision of Star Wars. Perhaps they'll be another patch which has these endings, but as I said before, I'd much rather have the story flow more smoothly over the game, then just the ending itself. The game otherwise is fine, I think some people just are sad that they didn't have a longer ending scene or some such, good thing they didn't live in the early 80s, I can imagine their outcry there. What! the game just keeps going and going and doesn't have an ending at all!!! What a ripp off!! I'd much rather have the gameplay with explanations throughout the end, rather than a long ending. As long as everything makes sense, it doesn't matter to me about the "other cut" endings or anything else, or even how long or short it is. For all I care they could have an ending that has simply credits...as long as the story itself flows. I personally like the game as is. Not as much as SWKotoR 1, but I still enjoy it. IF I were to make improvements, I'd make the general flow of it a little smoother after Dantooine (a little smoother, I don't think it's as bad as most of these "forumelites" are making it out to be), but even more so, populate more of some areas, and add a little more stuff to the scenery. The game itself in many ways seemed bland at some points simply because everything in an area looked like everything else! I'd also put more direction and definition in some quests on specifically where you are to go and what you are to do. There were some places where I'd be wandering for hours not knowing how to do something (perhaps I'm just an idiot) because I couldn't figure out the puzzle and so finally resorted to gamefaqs simply to figure out where to go next! (perhaps you like wandering the same are for days on end real time simply because you can't decryptify the game and what you're supposed to do next). I didn't have that problem in KotoR 1. We all have what we might have done differently in the game...but personally, I am glad we got #2 and have enjoyed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaguars4ever Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 ... and would you rather have Atton and Kreia holding hands, running through a field of flowers while Sion plays with his new Puppy?Ahem...I do beleive you mean Kath Hound Cub. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, he meant puppy. :D <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That was dynatmite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ProximaGamma Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Wow, well this was a highly unpleasant revalation. After reading this entire thread I felt surprisingly much like a little kid who's just been told that Santa Claus doesn't exist. I loved every second of Kotor 2 right uptil the ending, like everyone else here it seems. I thought that the story was deeper, more organic, better paced and generally less stiff than its predecessor. It did a great job of making me see past the bugs and glitches, which in a game with any lesser story would Now, I certainly understand that as a developer you can never be 100% satisfied with a game you've worked on. And I might add that considering that Kotor 2 was in development for only just over a year, it was indeed an impressive achivement. But to learn that an ending that left me with "anticlimax" printed on my forehead could have been replaced (relatively easily, I assume?) with an ending of unparalelled awesomeness -- which was scripted and ready -- left me very confused. To leave something like that out of the final product, that's just... ouch. Anyway, from what I understand the finger is being pointed at LucasArts and their notorious crunch times. It would make my day if there was to be a "developer's cut" of Kotor 2 with the 'proper' ending someday, but I'm not holding my breath. What! the game just keeps going and going and doesn't have an ending at all!!! What a ripp off!! Eh, the thing is that Kotor 2 ends, storywise, with more loose ends than you can shake a stick at. That's not having a story flowing. I wouldn't mind having those plot points wrapped up to me IN THE GAME rather than reading about it here. End rant, and thanks to the folks who extracted the audio files, I enjoyed them greatly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedipodo Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I think that LA decided to cut the ending, because they got cold feet. Imagine all of the beta testers crying... They feared that too many (happy end spoiled) players would turn into emotional wreckages. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If that was the reason, then Lucasarts should pull out of the entertainment business. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> sarcasm on Wow, what a great idea, if they had only done that three years ago there would have never been a KotoR 1 or 2, and no whiny players to complain about it. What an excellent suggestion. sarcasm off irony on You got the point. That is exactly what Meshugger meant. His comment must be taken literally. irony off Just imagine a Star Wars film where Luke, Han, Leia, Chewbacca, C-3PO, Artoo, and Lando all die...I'm certain everyone would love that film because it just brought out all their emotions...NOT. Obsidian had drafts for both happy and tragic endings depending on your ingame actions. What should be wrong with that? "Jedi poodoo!" - some displeased Dug S.L.J. said he has already filmed his death scene and was visibly happy that he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I think that LA decided to cut the ending, because they got cold feet. Imagine all of the beta testers crying... They feared that too many (happy end spoiled) players would turn into emotional wreckages. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If that was the reason, then Lucasarts should pull out of the entertainment business. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Just imagine a Star Wars film where Luke, Han, Leia, Chewbacca, C-3PO, Artoo, and Lando all die...I'm certain everyone would love that film because it just brought out all their emotions...NOT. In truth, some of the people wanted their characters to die...but Lucas didn't have it...because that's missing out on his vision of Star Wars. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> If true, how could Lucasarts then allowed Bioware to do the DS ending of KotOR? "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShadow99 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Well I had planned to buy KOTOR 2 (It's been on my must buy list for a logn time) and I still might... But after this I'm defiantely going to wait til it goes into the budget bin. I really don't want to pay full price for a uninteresting ending... Heck the ending is meant to be... Ya know The Ending. Something to make you feel like you've accomplished something by playing through the entire game. This is sad because I played through KOTOR 1 bugs and all more times than I can remember (over a dozen)... As for these ending being to dark... Uh have you read any of the New Jedi Order books published by Lucasbooks? Heck when Anakin Solo dies, his brother nearly ababdons the force, his sister almost becomes a Dark Jedi 'Goddess', his... lover well... explaining that would take awhile, btu lets just say it wasn't good. And Han & Leia don't exactly deal well with their childs death either... I might not have liked what happened, but I felt for the characters and I respect taking such a bold mood... That series was dark for a logn time afterwards and still hovers around that feeling... It's not Star Wars as you've always known it... And frankly that's a good thing... Personally I'm a writer and not all my writings have happy endings... In fact the most moving thing I've ever written causes people to break out into tears, because it's incredibly sad (& all in less than 4 pages which implies it strikes a cord most people are familiar with). While I don't want everything to be like that, it is hardly a bad thing. The idea is to make the reader (or watcher) part of the story by making them feel for the characters and what happens to them... Good or bad... It's like an anime series I've watched before, most morbidly depressing thing ever.... But it's like watching a train wreck because even though it's overwhelmingly depressing it's also just so good you can't look away. Dark stories can be good. Ok I think I'll stop ranting now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lost-soul Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Hmm, there's a dialogue of what seems to be the sacrifice of Visas when you confront Nihilus: SWKotOR2\StreamVoice\852\852sacri Very nice dialogue, Kelly Hu has a very pleasing voice.. 852852sacri001.wav Visas: Was.. was it enough? 852852sacri002.wav Visas: *sigh* Then at last, I can die. Will you.. will you stay until-- 852852sacri003.wav Visas: I.. I did not want to leave this life yet. It was weakness.. but for you.. I.. I... 852852sacri004.wav Visas: *weaker voice* My life for yours. 852852sacri005.wav Mandalore: Her death was worthy of a Mandalorian. 852852sacri006.wav Visas: Perhaps.. yet.. there is some hope in one's feelings.. Perhaps, I was not as lost as I thought. 852852sacri007.wav Visas: If I could have cared for one such as you, more than myself.. then I would die a thousand times for such hopes. 852852sacri008.wav Visas: Even your hatred.. even your hatred was welcome. Any shred of feeling. 852852sacri009.wav Visas: You and he are not so different. You'll die when you look upon the face of Malachor.. just as he did. 852852sacri010.wav Visas: At last then, I can die. Kill me, and I shall join my people. 852852sacri011.wav Visas: Do not.. do not leave me! I.. I... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt7895 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Well I had planned to buy KOTOR 2 (It's been on my must buy list for a logn time) and I still might... But after this I'm defiantely going to wait til it goes into the budget bin. I really don't want to pay full price for a uninteresting ending... Heck the ending is meant to be... Ya know The Ending. Something to make you feel like you've accomplished something by playing through the entire game. This is sad because I played through KOTOR 1 bugs and all more times than I can remember (over a dozen)... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wait, you haven't played KOTOR2 yet visit the spoilers forum? How can you NOT expect to be disappointed?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Msxyz Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 For me is not a matter or happy/sad/tragic ending but rather of a non-existant one. It's like watching Starwars with the credits rolling before the battle against the Death Star. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telcontar Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 I actually sumbled upon this thread by chance... After reading through it, I simply had to join the forum. (I only finished KotoR2 yesterday, so I didn't want to visit the forums before ;P) At first, some praise: I was absolutely sceptical if Obsidian Entertainment could ever recreate the feeling of kotor. After playing the game, I have to say that they even managed to create even better characters and the player character is by far the best I've ever played. The PC is perfectly balanced between having a great past and great customization and freedom of choice for the player. The ending was not bad. I've actually seen far worse endings in otherwise good games (like drakan; still waiting for drakan II to resolve the plot x_x) Still, this rushed ending spoils the immersion so very much! After the scene with Kreia obliterating the Jedi Masters and after the revelation of your ability to form bonds so quickly, the game simply stumbles on without even bothering to resolve the storylines of your companions. (as you might have noticed, I'm simply stating facts that have been mentioned over 20 pages in this thread, but I simply had to write this down...) So I'd say, make a patch, or an addon. Yes, I'd even pay for a proper ending! It might be unwise to reward LA for their policy of throwing unfinished gmes on the market, but it might support OE... All we can do is hope that OE has enough succes with KotoR2 that they earn enough money and the necessary reputation to defend themselves against LAs bullying next time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheShadow99 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 Wait, you haven't played KOTOR2 yet visit the spoilers forum? How can you NOT expect to be disappointed?! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Sigh... I followed an external link from a story about the lack of and ending and the finding of pieces of what could have been an real ending. Hence I'm here in this one thread and seeing as how their have been upwards of 60 non-rgeistered users looking at this thread since the same time I came I'd say I'm not the only one. Though I decided to comment. Spoilers frankly have never 'spoiled' anything for me... In KOTOR 1 I knew the PC was Revan well before they tell you (& I kept wishing for an option to say "yeah I had a feelign I was Revan", but they didn't let me say that). My dissapointment is with the fact that yes their doesn't seem to be much of an ending and their could have been a great ending (set of endings)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Credulous Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 For me is not a matter or happy/sad/tragic ending but rather of a non-existant one. It's like watching Starwars with the credits rolling before the battle against the Death Star. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Worse, it's like watching Vader appear on Cloud City while watching ESB, capture Han, Leia et al, and then you see the clash between Luke and Vader - but the fate of Han, Leia etc is not revealed, all that happens is the Falcon appears at the end to rescue Luke. And you never actually find out how. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubberDuckling Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 This could have been a great game with just a little bit of extra polish, so I can't help but feel like Obsidian threw away a chance to make gaming history. I don't think I can write in words my enjoyment as I played through the planets and got to meet the new characters. It was a feeling similar to all the previous titles I played from the same developers, however this time I was let down by the closure of the story and the end of game itself. I must thank all the people in this thread that helped piece together something more suitable for a closing scenario, even though it left me with a bitter feeling. I am not going to suggest releasing a patch that can implement the proper ending, since I understand that if they had the timeframe or the resources to do it, they would have done it in the first place. I will ask however the developers never to include such leftover files in a game they ship. It is a higher form of torture for the more serious gamers that are simply left with the burning question: "what if?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
telcontar Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 What bothers me the most is that the Devs don't seem interested in what their fans have to say. It should not be that hard to add a little comment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
killzab Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 did you hear the visas/mandalore dialogue in the 852 folder ??? It clearly reveals mandalore's identity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
draakh_kimera Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 What bothers me the most is that the Devs don't seem interested in what their fans have to say. It should not be that hard to add a little comment... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No, it wouldn't be hard, but I wouldn't be surprised if they can't say anything due to contracts. There's no way any publisher would allow a developer to blame them for a failed/incomplete game without legal retaliation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowPaladin V1.0 Posted February 21, 2005 Share Posted February 21, 2005 No, it wouldn't be hard, but I wouldn't be surprised if they can't say anything due to contracts. There's no way any publisher would allow a developer to blame them for a failed/incomplete game without legal retaliation. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That never used to bother Troika. Oh thats right they went out of business because no publishers wanted to get shafted by their incompetance. " I have to agree with Volourn. Bioware is pretty much dead now. Deals like this kills development studios. 478327[/snapback] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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