Sentinel still useless?

[-Jinrai-]

I'm planning my 1st character for KOTOR2 and I was just wondering: Is there a good reason to pick a Sentinel, this time? Atleast in 1st KOTOR a couple of skillpoints and some immunities wasn't even close to compensating the bonuses the guardian and the consular get? And no I'm not going to play it with stealth, so that isn't a good reason.

 

And those who have time to answer, please don't spoil anything, since I haven't yet played the game. Meaning: no "if you combine this with this armor wich you get after beating this plot critical character you get this and this, which makes up for this that you don't have"-phrases, please.

 

Thx.

[jaguars4ever]

The Sentinel is now the best class in K2, despite being the worst in K1 - in fact it's not really worth being a Guardian at all this time. This is in no small part due to equal BaB this time around.

 

The Sentinel is leagues ahead to the other classes in terms of skill points, and only 1 feat behind the Guadian (7 for the Sentinel, 8 for the Guadian) by the time you can acquire a Prestige Class.

[Frinklin]

The Sentinel is now the best class in K2, despite being the worst in K1 - in fact it's not really worth being a Guardian at all this time.  This is in no small part due to equal BaB this time around. 

 

The Sentinel is leagues ahead to the other classes in terms of skill points, and only 1 feat behind the Guadian (7 for the Sentinel, 8 for the Guadian) by the time you can acquire a Prestige Class.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Another strike against the Guardian is the Force Jump. Yeah, it does wonders, but you won' t have a lightsaber for your first 10 levels or so. Go with Sentinel in K2.

[envida]

Couldn't agree more, Sentinel is the best class in K2, perfect to start with whether you choose weaponmaster, watchman or Master as your prestige class.

[-Jinrai-]

Okay, you think it's good. BUT could some1 give me some solid facts? I know the basic stuff (amount of points and feats you get). I mean feat is allways good, damage/strenght bonuses are given to guardians(atleast in the first Kotor) not to mention vitality. And I would allways take force jump and some sheer power over a couple of skillpoints and some immunities, since poison and stuff are so easilly cured.

 

Now, I know there's new stuff in this sequel that change things, so could you guys tell me if there is any improvements to the character balance (more thorougly)?

And how does the fact that there (in theory) isn't a level cap affect the character evolution?

 

I checked the jeditraining guide available from kotor2.com, but that is filled with basic stuff that I allready know from the 1st game (Except for the prestige classes). Almost worthless I say. According to the guide sentinels get nothing good.

 

Not trying to judge book by it's cover but I still don't see any good reason for pickin' this piece of you know what.

 

So when I make a character I try not to make a mediocre, good at nothing guy, but instead go for the fullest in the certain traits.

[jaguars4ever]

The only thing that made the Soldier and Guardian unique in terms of attack potenital in K1 was a 0-20 Base Attack Bonus. The Sentinel, had a 0-15 BaB.

 

In K2, all Jedi classes gain 1 BaB every level, so that advantage is now nullified. Also, the Sentinel posseses far superior saving throws than the Consular. And whilst Consulars gave you more force powers & force poinits in K1, come the end of K2 you'll have 500+ force points and more force powers than you know what to do with, so Consulars aren't really necessary.

 

K2 Saving Throws

 

K2 Feat Gain

[-Jinrai-]

The only thing that made the Soldier and Guardian unique in terms of attack potenital in K1 was a 0-20 Base Attack Bonus.  The Sentinel, had a 0-15 BaB. 

 

In K2, all Jedi classes gain 1 BaB every level, so that advantage is now nullified.  Also, the Sentinel posseses far superior saving throws than the Consular.  And whilst Consulars gave you more force powers & force poinits in K1,  come the end of K2 you'll have 500+ force points and more force powers than you know what to do with, so Consulars aren't really necessary.

 

K2 Saving Throws

 

K2 Feat Gain

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK. Nice links. Copied those, thx.

 

So according to these the sentinel and guardian get the same saving throws, and for feats guardian gets 11 and sentinel 10 by the lvl20. Seems it's been balanced, good thing I suppose. BaB sth also interesting. All this makes the choice a little harder, hav'to admit, but I'm still not sure how sentinel is actually BETTER.

[jaguars4ever]

The only thing that made the Soldier and Guardian unique in terms of attack potenital in K1 was a 0-20 Base Attack Bonus.  The Sentinel, had a 0-15 BaB. 

 

In K2, all Jedi classes gain 1 BaB every level, so that advantage is now nullified.  Also, the Sentinel posseses far superior saving throws than the Consular.  And whilst Consulars gave you more force powers & force poinits in K1,  come the end of K2 you'll have 500+ force points and more force powers than you know what to do with, so Consulars aren't really necessary.

 

K2 Saving Throws

 

K2 Feat Gain

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK. Nice links. Copied those, thx.

 

So according to these the sentinel and guardian get the same saving throws, and for feats guardian gets 11 and sentinel 10 by the lvl20. Seems it's been balanced, good thing I suppose. BaB sth also interesting. All this makes the choice a little harder, hav'to admit, but I'm still not sure how sentinel is actually BETTER.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're forgetting that Guardians hardly get any skills compared to Sentinels. As you have yet to play the game, you have no idea how important skills are this time - They unlock dialogue options, allow one to access additional quests and are used in item creation.

 

Also, as someone previously noted, 'Force Jump' will effectively be unavailable for the first 18-20 hours, whilst the Sentnels immunities from Fear, Stun & Paralysis remain always active.

[Exar_Kun]

The only thing that made the Soldier and Guardian unique in terms of attack potenital in K1 was a 0-20 Base Attack Bonus.  The Sentinel, had a 0-15 BaB. 

 

In K2, all Jedi classes gain 1 BaB every level, so that advantage is now nullified.  Also, the Sentinel posseses far superior saving throws than the Consular.  And whilst Consulars gave you more force powers & force poinits in K1,  come the end of K2 you'll have 500+ force points and more force powers than you know what to do with, so Consulars aren't really necessary.

 

K2 Saving Throws

 

K2 Feat Gain

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

OK. Nice links. Copied those, thx.

 

So according to these the sentinel and guardian get the same saving throws, and for feats guardian gets 11 and sentinel 10 by the lvl20. Seems it's been balanced, good thing I suppose. BaB sth also interesting. All this makes the choice a little harder, hav'to admit, but I'm still not sure how sentinel is actually BETTER.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You're forgetting that Guardians hardly get any skills compared to Sentinels. As you have yet to play the game, you have no idea how important skills are this time - They unlock dialogue options, allow one to access additional quests and are used in item creation.

 

Also, as someone previously noted, 'Force Jump' will effectively be unavailable for the first 18-20 hours, whilst the Sentnels immunities from Fear, Stun & Paralysis remain always active.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

And since everyone gains one level of flurry, power attack, and critical strike there's no reason not to go with the sentinel. That's my option the next playthrough .

[-Jinrai-]

There are some good points you're making here.

 

Yes I hear the skills are actually of some use in the sequel, which basically wasn't true in K1. Which is clearly an improvement. And you actually have to be without your stick of light for over 10 hours? Sheesh! But I guess it must feel really good once you get it. Hope there's no sabers before that on any of other characters. (Bastila getting hers on taris in K1 really took some glory off your own fellas first sabre). It's a shame you don't get it earlier I really liked force jump.

 

It seems you've given me sth to think about here. Maybe i should pick sentinel first... that really gives me the option to go anywhere when the prestige classes are chosen... Sith lord/jedi master sounds cool, though marauder/WM seems to be a bit more effective with sentinel as first class. Definetely not going assassin or watchman, it just ain't me.

 

Dunno hav to dig up some more.

 

Oh, and how important is that item creation, that you've talked about? I hear you can make some powerful gear yourself now? And whatabout T3-M4, he is a superb in repair and comm skills, can't he do it for you?

 

And finally how big is that spoiler in the guides page 16? I heard there's sth there that I might not wan't to know about and so I skipped that page. Is it safe?

 

LOL, i feel like a total noob here. Thx for your patience.

[Epiphany]

Oh, and how important is that item creation, that you've talked about? I hear you can make some powerful gear yourself now?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

It's moot. You'll find or buy everything you can make. You may have something 30 minutes before you find it, but once you start playing, you'll notice the combat is insanely easy, and all these cool upgrades are just for kicks, and serve no true purpose to help you complete the game.

[Judge Hades]

Looks like I have my work infront of me. I plan on making a few changes tot he game to make it more of a challenge and make sure there the classes are more diversified. I don't know about you, Epiphany, but I find it more satisfying to make my equipment than just using what I find and buy, even though game mechanic wise it is irrelevant.

[Darth Jebus]

WOW.

 

It looks like I'm totally wrong again. I sincerely thought the Sentinel was by far the WORST class in not only the KOTOR games, but in the history of videogaming.[/bill Walton]

 

No, but seriously. I found Sentinel to be truly awful and a waste of time. I really did. My character had better saving throws, but that was about it.

 

NEARLY ALL OF THE OPPONENTS I would go up against, from the smallest jungle creature to the biggest bosses, were NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to hit.

 

A typical melee would go just like this, and I am sincerely not making this up:

 

CLOSING TO COMBAT RANGE

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 13 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 8 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 24 HP (my controller vibrates)

 

Injects and advanced medpac

 

I lose 24 HP(my controller vibrates)

 

Injects and advanced medpac

 

I lose 10 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 15 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 9 HP

 

I run away and leave my party members to handle the target.

 

Every. Single. Time.

 

And that's just when I fight a cannock with a Mandalorian Power Shield activated. I'm not joking here. It was truly just a horrilbe class to be.

 

I couldn't emphasize this more when I say avoid this class at all possible costs. Be a Guardian or a Consular. You see CLEAR bonuses for those classes. It wasn't until MUCH, MUCH later in the game did I see any kind of advantages from being a Sentinal other than the fact that i got [AWARENESS] in lot of my dialogue options.

 

Also, the Sentinal class sucks.

[Darth Gizka]

not as worthless as before with kotor 1, but still worse than consular...better than a guardian but that's not saying much...

 

pro: skills, lots of skills..

 

con: the special ability is still worthless, now you can MAKE the implants that duplicate the same immunities..

 

now consular watchman, that's an evil combination...

 

force focus, lots of force powers, then sneak attack, and force camo...

 

your disabling spells to set up massive sneak attack runs will really stick due to force focus...

 

better than a consular weapon master due to more damage per hit when used with disabling powers...

 

my new run thru (i have yet to complete the game... 23-25th run thru)

 

is deliberately set up to take maximum advantage of a switch to watchman from consular...

 

take demo as class feat, since neither consular or watchman have it as class feat...

 

with demolitions, every skill becomes a class skill...

 

more feats, less powers...while i'll miss inspire followers, greater prestige sense will be so nice...and while master battle meditation isn't as good as inspire followers, my level 7 sneak attack is going to console me...

 

darth jebus, it sounds like you made a high dex jedi, then forgot to get finesse lightsabers...or are using melee weapons...

 

try finesse melee weapons, or get a zabrak vibroblade as offhanded weapon...

[jaguars4ever]

WOW.

 

It looks like I'm totally wrong again.  I sincerely thought the Sentinel was by far the WORST class in not only the KOTOR games, but in the history of videogaming.[/bill Walton]

 

No, but seriously.  I found Sentinel to be truly awful and a waste of time.  I really did.  My character had better saving throws, but that was about it.

 

NEARLY ALL OF THE OPPONENTS I would go up against, from the smallest jungle creature to the biggest bosses, were NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to hit.

 

A typical melee would go just like this, and I am sincerely not making this up:

 

CLOSING TO COMBAT RANGE

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 13 HP

 

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 8 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 24 HP (my controller vibrates)

 

Injects and advanced medpac

 

I lose 24 HP(my controller vibrates)

 

Injects and advanced medpac

 

I lose 10 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 15 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 9 HP

 

I run away and leave my party members to handle the target.

 

Every. Single. Time.

 

And that's just when I fight a cannock with a Mandalorian Power Shield activated.  I'm not joking here.  It was truly just a horrilbe class to be.

 

I couldn't emphasize this more when I say avoid this class at all possible costs.  Be a Guardian or a Consular. You see CLEAR bonuses for those classes.  It wasn't until MUCH, MUCH later in the game did I see any kind of advantages from being a Sentinal other than the fact that i got [AWARENESS] in lot of my dialogue options.

 

Also, the Sentinal class sucks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If you're missing like that, it has nothing to do with the class, but has to do with the build - Both Sentinels anbd Guardians have equal BaB this time around, not 0-15 compared to 0-20, like in K2.

 

The problem lies in with your primary stats. If your strength is 12 or less, you may fiind yourself having problems hitting things early on in the game, as your BaB will be relativley lower.

 

Additionally, your miss rate could be attributed to usage of featts which are effectively unusable at that stage of the game. One can't rally hope to be able to hit with the attack penalties of -4 or -3 incurred by Flurry or Power Attack, when you don't have a high enough BaB to support it.

 

Lastly, it could be because you're a dexerity based fighter, but have failed to purchase any of the Weapon Fineese feasts, such as Melee Weapon Finesse. If you do have weapon finesse, do note you may still have difficutly early on if you're dex is 12 or lower.

 

[Judge Hades]

Weapon Finesse is worthless witha Dex lower than 14.

[thepixiesrock]

I liked the sentinal class. I missed not having my scoundrel with all my skills so all the skills you get with the sentinal make up for it...

[Obireel Y Doncha]

In KOTOR, I almost always played Sentinel until I realized how much stronger Consulars were (I'm not interested in Guardian class and've never played it)

 

In KOTOR2, Sentinel seems kinda like a combination of Scout and Scoundrel and Sentinel. Every skill but Repair and Demolitions are class skills and I spend my first two feets on making them cross-class skills (Demolitions first if you want to be able to keep all those mines you find on Peragus)

 

I started my third game as a consular and was so disappointed in the lack of skills (only four skills are class skills) that I gave up while The Exile was still wandering around in her underwear.

 

You can get Force Focus as a Sentinel (but maybe you have to go with the Jedi Master prestige class to get it) but I didn't notice much difference. Your Force powers don't drain off nearly as fast as they did in KOTOR and, toward the end, they hardly ever drain down at all. Before walking into a big fight, I'll have the Exile cast Energy Resistance and Valor and Battle Meditation and Aura and anything else that might remotely help in a fight and his Force meter goes down just a pencil lead's width.

 

There might be a real difference between Jedi Master and Watchman. I didn't really notice one but I played Jedi Master on "Normal" and Watchman on "Difficult" so there's no apples-to-apples comparison there.

[Epiphany]

WOW.

 

It looks like I'm totally wrong again.  I sincerely thought the Sentinel was by far the WORST class in not only the KOTOR games, but in the history of videogaming.[/bill Walton]

 

No, but seriously.  I found Sentinel to be truly awful and a waste of time.  I really did.  My character had better saving throws, but that was about it.

 

NEARLY ALL OF THE OPPONENTS I would go up against, from the smallest jungle creature to the biggest bosses, were NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to hit.

 

A typical melee would go just like this, and I am sincerely not making this up:

 

CLOSING TO COMBAT RANGE

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 13 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 8 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 24 HP (my controller vibrates)

 

Injects and advanced medpac

 

I lose 24 HP(my controller vibrates)

 

Injects and advanced medpac

 

I lose 10 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 15 HP

 

miss miss miss

 

I lose 9 HP

 

I run away and leave my party members to handle the target.

 

Every. Single. Time.

 

And that's just when I fight a cannock with a Mandalorian Power Shield activated.  I'm not joking here.  It was truly just a horrilbe class to be.

 

I couldn't emphasize this more when I say avoid this class at all possible costs.  Be a Guardian or a Consular. You see CLEAR bonuses for those classes.  It wasn't until MUCH, MUCH later in the game did I see any kind of advantages from being a Sentinal other than the fact that i got [AWARENESS] in lot of my dialogue options.

 

Also, the Sentinal class sucks.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Ladies and gentlemen, and children of all ages! Step right up to see... the exaggerator.

[jaguars4ever]

Ladies and gentlemen, and children of all ages!  Step right up to see... the exaggerator.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

Hey Epiph, is that the new clan on these boards? We already have the pollerators, the spamorators and those fool 'KotORians'....but now we have the exaggerators as well.

[Epiphany]

I need to be in a clan, my e-feelings are hurt by being left out. I wonder if all the people that hate me will band together and pigeon hole me into some catagory as well.

[Judge Hades]

Poor, Epiphany. You can join my army if you wish. I need a good acorn thrower.

[Darth_Radnor]

Incidentally i'm working on a powerful build this time- sentinel/marauder. I raised my CON to 18, so now I can get all the powerful dex implants, and my DS bonus is +3 DEX. Along with Weapon Finesse: Lightsaber, I will be an unhittable 1 hit KOer

[Jedi_Master_Darkor]

Incidentally i'm working on a powerful build this time- sentinel/marauder. I raised my CON to 18, so now I can get all the powerful dex implants, and my DS bonus is +3 DEX. Along with Weapon Finesse: Lightsaber, I will be an unhittable 1 hit KOer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

But you don't get Force Jump. <_<

[jaguars4ever]

Looks like I have my work infront of me.  I plan on making a few changes tot he game to make it more of a challenge and make sure there the classes are more diversified.  I don't know about you, Epiphany, but I find it more satisfying to make my equipment than just using what I find and buy, even though game mechanic wise it is irrelevant.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Item creation was so much fun, because quite a few of those items are unlikely to be found, and cannot be bought. And since the workbench/labstation only shows you the items you can build in the vicinity of your skill point levels, it was great fun raising skills and then checking back later to see what goodies await....followed by breaking down your unwanted trash into components/chemicals and building some good stuff.

 

 

 

 

Incidentally i'm working on a powerful build this time- sentinel/marauder. I raised my CON to 18, so now I can get all the powerful dex implants, and my DS bonus is +3 DEX. Along with Weapon Finesse: Lightsaber, I will be an unhittable 1 hit KOer

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

But you don't get Force Jump. <_<

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

What good is Force Jump if you don't have a lightsaber? "